No repentance for God is by our own will power alone

[Mr GLee]

Why do Christians talk like this?

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

God' is not big white puffy cloud in sky. Nor feathery dove bird in air.

God's commandment to repent is do it or die.

What did you mean why do Christians talk a certain way ?

The first love is with the first works. Resisting the lust of the devil to sin not with the flesh.

The Ephesians were becoming outwardly righteous Pharisees, with inward lust of the word.

We can live our religion without blame, while lusting with the world without doing it outwardly.

His first love that works in us to "both" to hear the will and empower us to perform it to His good pleasure

Jesus the Son of man moved by the power or faith of the father did his will with delight .Some murmur . What about me? Where is my reward

Philippians 2:13-24 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputing

 

[jeremiah1five]

Now this is very instructive. What's so hard about repeating God's own words on paper? I mean, even if one doesn't believe it, that doesn't mean one can't just copy it. What's so hard about at least being accurate about the order of the words?

Because those are schemes of men and God doesn't follow schemes of men.

It's only hard when not wanting to have God's order as written. His order of repentance and salvation is always in the order of repent to be converted, forgiven, and saved.

I put the horse (conversion) before the cart (repentance.)
You see, the stronger man must first bind the strong man (sin) before He can take his goods.
You see, I must first be set free from the BONDAGE of sin before anythingh else can occur. It makes no sense to repent of sin while STILL IN BONDAGE TO SIN.
Sheesh.

However, we see here it's not just hard but impossible to have His order, while hardening the heart to believe another order of one's own gospel. This of course is why God's order never preached, with an excuse of it by saying it's just too hard. To do what? Just repeat it as written.

Oh, I can repeat what Saul said:

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom. 8:28–30.

But this list is not exhaustive. There's also election and spiritual gifts and repentance, etc. that accompany salvation.

This is another great case in point of how the Book of God is more abused than any other book on earth. No other book and author is so insulted by people first trying to change the words of the book, and then adding insult to injury by declaring that's what the author 'really means' to say.

Then stop abusing it with your false doctrine.

All books of man are read and repeated accurately, in order to then give a verdict of believing it or not. But not God's Book.

No, it falls under the same requirement. It has to be read - and sometimes repeatedly - in order for the reader to give a verdict of believing it or not. That's how it's been since God first opened His mouth and said "THOU SHALT NOT EAT OF IT."
But sin comes from sinner and the man, and his rib ate the thing.

And so, with this in mind, we see how you claim the Author is teaching instantaneous salvation, with only gradual repentance at your convenience. Which of course is opposite of what the Author actually says in His Book.

Repentance requires a time factor. Take Luke 17:3.

3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. Lk 17:2–3.

Now, let's look at the application in a practical fashion. Me and a fellow Christian I just met get along well and so we start hanging out together. We fellowship, go out at times but this brother has an issue with anger that he exhibits, and I notice. Sometimes his anger comes with the F-word and this offends me when we go out and he does it. So, a couple of times he gets angry for something while we're together and he knows he's sinned against the Lord for not taming his tongue and controlling his anger. So, he asks me to forgive him, and I do and we move on. Later, he gets angry and out comes the F-word again. Now, I really don't want to be hanging around a brother who constantly says the "F-word. It offends me and the Holy Spirit in me. I don't want to be around a brother that at times says the "F-word" and can't control his anger nor do I want to be around an unsaved person that cusses either. I have no problem forgiving this brother 70 times 7.
BUT with this brother who constantly gets angry and says the "F-word," at what time does my wisdom kick in and I say, "What's wrong with this brother? WHY is he always angry and when angry says the "F-word." I'm sure the Lord did not mean I am to submit my spirit to endure his same sin 490 times without any attempt at controlling his anger and his tongue. I have my walk to consider, and wisdom tells me to separate myself from this brother until he overcomes his sin. If he asks me to forgive him, I do but the fellowship is grieved and he either allows me to help him, or if he doesn't, then leaders in the church. If he refuses the help, then I will no longer fellowship with this brother and constantly submit my spirit and sensibilities to his constant offenses. So, I separate myself from this brother and no longer hang out with him. I forgive him when he asks forgiveness but if he says "I repent" then that's fine. SHOW ME you've repented. This requires us going out together several times and he never gets angry as before and doesn't say the "F-word" anymore. If my brother can't be "more than a conqueror" and overcome his sin of anger and cussing, then I leave him to his own devices - maybe to the enemy of his flesh - for the destruction OF HIS FLESH and let the Lord deal with him. In time the Lord does because we do not have an absentee Father but one who is directly involved in our upbringing and will grow each and every son He birth and make them all overcomers.
But this takes time. If I am 14 years old and want to drive, well, it takes time because the law states I must be at least 16 and it is taken for granted that I have a father that will assist and mature me to handle such a responsibility.

And by preaching your own casual repentance, you only give lip-service to the Author's gospel of having instantaneously complete repentance and salvation at the same time.

I don't preach my own repentance. I either repent of sin or sins or I don't and remain a slave to sin or sins.

You're simply authoring your own book for your own gospel plan of complete salvation unto partial repentance. All such books and authoring of men ends in the grave.

And what's your evidence?

As I said, your own authorship and gospel book.
As I said, at least your more openly bold about changing the Book of God, than the slithering snakes.
Your changed order here, is omitting the first order of Jesus' reformation: Repentance, election, predestination, calling...

Salvation is of the Lord.
In that salvation is included repentance, faith, gifts, conversion, calling, election, and so forth. All in a moments time.
It's like natural birth. God determines when a birth occurs as well as spiritual birth. Sometimes labor takes hours, some more, some less, but a birth is occurring, and the moment of birth arrives. In that moment the baby isn't concerned with the diapers he's going to wear, how long he'll be weaned, his name, what pre-school he'll be put in, what high school he'll attend, who to go out with at graduation, who to date, who to marry, which friends he'll choose, whether he's blue-eyed or brown. All of these considerations at birth don't enter his mind and neither do they enter the mind of a neophyte when spiritual birth occurs. When one is born again they're not trying to decipher which comes first, faith or gifts, conversion or elect. What does happen is the baby comes out crying, the mother rested, and the father relieved - that is if the father is present.
Both times I came out crying. How about you.
Were you worrying about the order of your salvation?

 

[Ghada]

That's correct. God wills all come to repentance and then all don't come to repentance. The common denominator is that some choose to repent and others don't.

2 Peter 3
9The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

No repentance for God is by our own will power alone​

I know the title could have been written better.

You are correct; however, the post is in response to a silly accusation that us repenting at the commandment of God's will, is somehow us saving ourselves by our own will power alone.

It's made by unrepentant sinners that want to believe they are saved forever by their own faith alone without doing anything on their part, including repenting of their own sins.

Man saving himself by his own will is in fact the doctrine of being saved by our own faith alone: people must will themselves to believe they are still saved by God, while still sinning with the devil.

 

[Runningman]

No repentance for God is by our own will power alone​

I know the title could have been written better.

You are correct; however, the post is in response to a silly accusation that us repenting at the commandment of God's will, is somehow us saving ourselves by our own will power alone.

It's made by unrepentant sinners that want to believe they are saved forever by their own faith alone without doing anything on their part, including repenting of their own sins.

Man saving himself by his own will is in fact the doctrine of being saved by our own faith alone: people must will themselves to believe they are still saved by God, while still sinning with the devil.

I wouldn't say we can do everything required from beginning to completion to save ourselves, but we do play a role and without our cooperation there may not be a path to salvation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That's so sweet of you! Seriously! I can enjoy good old fashioned intellectualized sophistry when I see it, just like any one else acquainted with such stuff. It's certainly one for the record books.

'Contemplative' repentance! Beautiful. I like it. You are truly proving to be a fount of bitter water appearing sweet.

You respond to me as though you understood what I said. Let's not shoot from the hip.
Before anything God has to think it first. Such as contemplating man and then doing it.
With God you make it sound as though His 'mouth' is disconnected from His 'brasin.'
LOL

I like you. I really do. You actually put some real thought and subtlety into your stuff. You're not just your average bear author of your own gospel.

Then I'll call you, "Boo Boo!"

Contemplating whether to repent or not. The convenience of contemplation, without the 'necessity' of repenting.

You misunderstood what I said, Boo.

Instead of repenting with the mind only, you call it 'contemplative' repentance, like it were righteously 'meditated'.

No, I call it contemplative creation.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: contemplate ye, and believe the gospel.

Jesus was speaking to Israel of twelve tribes.
He said He was sent but to the House of Israel and Gentiles are NOT the House of Israel. So, read and understand it in that context and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Contemplate ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye contemplate, ye shall all likewise perish.
For godly sorrow worketh contemplation unto salvation not to be repented of.
Oops. Sorry. I'm sure you would rather work salvation unto contemplation, so as to avoid any hint of man commanded by god to do something by obedience, to be saved by God.

Instead of repeating myself, Boo, I'll just refer you to the above application of "contemplation."
Psst...it has to do with creation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I finally can partly agree with you. Repentance from all dead works with saving faith toward God, is exhaustive.

However, your issue with that moment in time, does lead to the difference between being instantly repented and saved in a moment without works, with the new good works following. Which work includes the good fight by the Spirit to maintain good works, through all temptation and tribulation of this life.

Repentance is "change your mind." I can be saved in that moment and "change my mind" (repent) about future actions but that's only Twilight Zone. God wants fruits (acts) meet for repentance.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
We see here, that the election of God is for the babes, that the election might be by God without works. The election is for the new babes of God (having done neither good nor evil), by repenting from all dead works for His sake, and now having a whole new heart and life elected by promise of Christ's NT.

True. But tell a mother there are babes in the womb that if they die and they're not elect they go to the other place. Do you accept this truth?

Even as it was with the babes of Rebecca's womb, so it is in that moment of all babes newly born by the promised in the bosom of the Father: Without works doing neither good nor evil.

That's true. But they were BOTH under the covenant umbrella. The election had to do with the Promise going through Jacob not Esau. Esau was still covenant like Ishmael. They are the seed of Abraham (son and grandson) and "come out of thee" (Abraham - Gen. 17.)

And that difference of momentary newborn sonship (that is at one moment being without works of good or evil before God), is ensured by Satan to be but moments away from seeking to undo our repentance and God's good work of the Spirit, by tempting with lust.

The angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment, including Satan. (2 Peter 2:4.)
The NEW "Satan" is the flesh and carnal mind. These are adversary of God.

And Jesus' temptation was from within, not without.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

(now come back with the expected response.)

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
The newborn babe in Christ Jesus does indeed have a moment of real time in this world, just as every babe born into the world, where all things of heart and life are pure and of God doing no works as yet. However, unlike babes for months in the womb, we must immediately learn to resist the devil and take no thought for his to sin by lust.

The angels that sinned are locked up (2 Peter 2:4.)
The only adversary of man is man and the stupid stuff they do. Even to themselves.
If a babe in the womb is not elect of God and dies in the womb or during birth they're going bye-bye - if you know what I mean.

Jesus learned it from His youth upward through the cross, and we must learn it from our own youth in Christ upward unto our own good end.

No, Jesus learned it from the womb. His suffering as Isaiah's "Suffering Servant" began in the womb when He put on that awful flesh.

Those who don't learn to fight that good fight of faith, to only do good, but also do evil, bastardize their sonship from God, even as every man coming into the world that sins against God.

I sinned yesterday. Am I now a bastard?
I'll sin as soon as I log off in something before I hit my pillow tonight. Am I a bastard?
I'll do a sin and fall short of His glory or fracture a Law, am I a bastard?
Wow, Boo Boo, with all this sinning I do I wonder if I'm even saved.
What do you think? Has God taken away my sin in this life so I can walk on water, or should I wear a floatation device?

Adam was the first man and son of God,

No, he wasn't a son. God the Father has only ONE Son.
Adam was of God, but not His son.

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Here, the best English translation for the English-speaking people:

38 Which was the [son of] Enos, which was the [son of] Seth, which was the [son of] Adam, which was the [son of] God. Lk 3:38.

The KJV translators added the words "son of" as they are NOT in the Greek texts they translated. So, read it without the "son of" and come to the knowledge of the truth.

God has ONLY ONE Son. The Logos. The Lord Jesus Christ, the man-God.
Right, Boo Boo?

And he was the first man and son to bastardize himself unto death to God, by sinning with the devil against God.

Oh, true sons don't bastardize. Reflects poorly on the Father. But the atonement in time is the atonement in eternity BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. Rev. 13:7–8.

This means that before God created heaven, earth, and man, a lamb was slain which first enabled Him to create a sinful man, and then institute some mechanism that was sufficient for Him to put up with the sin of His elect people. It all began right here:

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Ge n.3:20–21.

We as fallen man - those who are not saved - make up all kinds of religions in order to clothe ourselves with self-righteousness so that we might relate to a Righteous God but all that are filthy rags.
But when God clothes us then we are confident that IF He clothes us - and He does this by imparting His Righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21) then we are clothed with His Righteousness and good to go. Like what He did in Gen. 3:21.

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and man not to sin on earth, and the repented begotten again sons of God, are the only ones on earth continuing to sin not against the Son and the Father.

Make up your mind. IS HE the ONLY begotten Son of God because you say it but then call Adam a son (which he's not.)

And as with Adam, there are begotten again sons making themselves bastards from God, to return to be the children of disobedience.

No, God knows what He is doing.
From Adam to the last elect person to be born-again God's elect people have always been atoned and from God's perspective are holy, sinless, and righteous. His 'fail safe' was a 'lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. So, because of this sacrifice made in the heavenly Tabernacle BEFORE God created man enabled Him to go forth and create man having His elect people in Adam's loins, those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (CREATION) of the world as they were "covered" and made righteous IN HIS EYES (even though they sin in time) and everything was "covered" and His Plan of Man went forward without a hitch.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Yeah. God created a sinful man and sin entered the world.
Sin comes from sinner.
Right, Boo Boo?

 

[jeremiah1five]

None, of course, because he did confess from the heart and repent at once, which is the Bible definition of godly sorrow. And he did so by the Spirit of Christ:
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
The worldly sorrow you preach for yourself, is being sorry about sinning, but not now repenting. It leaves the sorry sinner still dead in the same old unrepented sinning.

YOU, AGAIN!
I can understand what David said:
"Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there! Ps 139:7–8.

OK. I'll deal with it.

First, there is no "heart" to confess from. The word "heart" in the OT meant the "whole being" of a person. The "heart" does not think. God ordained that function to the brain/mind. So, if one is confessing from their "heart" they're confessing from their "whole being" of their life.
Second, any godly sorrow is Holy Spirit sorrow. Before the Holy Spirit EVERYONE had 'worldly' sorrow, but God still accepted it when the person was contrite and serious. Like David. But being King and anointed by Samuel He had the Holy Spirit - but NOT within him.
Everyone before the Holy Spirit - except prophets, priests, and kings - didn't have the Holy Spirit and if they had sorrow - and I'm only speaking of Israel - it was worldly sorrow. But being in relation with Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob their sorrow was godly. When they as a people repent of their sins after going after strange flesh and false gods, they throw sackcloth on themselves and with ashes repent and wail of their sins and God would honor their sorrow.

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
The Spirit of Christ never left the world, and was even in some men in the world, beginning with Adam, who was the first born son of God by the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit was NOT with Adam. He was created body, soul, and human spirit - a human spirit that allowed him to communicate with Creator God and which died "in the day" he ate of the Tree, and which human spirit God did not restore for after his sin the communication changed and was more practical that spiritual (NOT Holy Spirit.)

The Spirit had not yet been poured upon all flesh at the resurrection of Christ, nor had any man yet been begotten again by His resurrection from the dead.

Upon all flesh is not ALL humans, but in context in which the word is used and to whom it was spoken to it means ALL Israel. Surely you don't believe He was "poured out on all flesh" and every human has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. You don't believe that do you, Boo Boo?

But God's conviction by the Spirit unto godly sorrow was even toward Cain. He was the one, unlike David, that had the sorrow of the world you preach He was only sullen and sorry about being convicted, and refused to repent.

Read above. I'm not going to repeat myself. Israel possessed EVERYTHING concerning salvation in their covenants - even the Holy Spirit BEFORE He arrived at Pentecost.

Without the Spirit in the world convicting men that sinned, men like David, unlike Cain, would never have confessed of sinning by God's conviction, and repented with the heart from sinning with His godly sorrow.

So, the national repenting with sackcloth and ashes and wailing and crying for their sin of following and serving the gods of the hated Gentiles, those uncircumcised Philistines - like when the Book of the Covenant was found in the Temple, and it was read, and they learned they were doing things wrong...that worldly sorrow didn't assist in their repentance? But it did for God responded and forgave them and things went forward.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

If you were to actually believe the Bible words as written, and their definition of such things as godly sorrow, vs that of the world, you wouldn't be asking such contradictory questions. Nor would you be making even more errors about the Bible and the Spirit of Christ in the world, before being poured out upon all flesh around the world.

You know, there would be no issue had Saul not said what he said and ignorant people take his words and make a doctrine out of it.
I say that because in Israel's history BEFORE the Holy Spirit was poured out at times the nation repented in sackcloth and ashes and sorrowed with tears and wailing for their sin and God honored it. It was a "worldly" sorrow without the Holy Spirit.
So, I think you should drop that heresy of a doctrine of demons and come to the light.

Nor would you be trying to define David's godly sorrow as your 'worldly sorrow'.
Your question literally attempts to place your definition of the world's sorrow with death, as that applying to God's people. Which, hey, it strikes me that is exactly what you attempt to do here for yourself, as well as all other unrepented Christians like you.

Sackcloth and ashes and wailing with tears, crying out in sorrow for their sins and God honored their "worldly" sorrow. That's what you call it, right? You call it that because there's no Holy (godly) Spirit behind it all.

You are trying to make the David of the Bible, to have done as you do today: Despising the Spirit of grace's conviction unto repentance, and being only sorry about it without repentance.
David confessed and repented at once, by the Spirit of Christ.

The common man in Israel did not have the Holy Spirit because He had not yet been poured out. Fix your doctrine, Ol' Wise One.

The kind God says working death. Remember, I repeat God's words from the Bible, you repeat your own as though being God's words from your own book.
I acknowledge you have a skill and genius for it, as well as boldly going where no man ought to go. But still a subtilly skillful mishandling of the Bible's words.
Now, if you would just repent of changing the words of the Author, and only copy and repeat them to agree or disagree with them, then you would be even more honest about when you do not believe Him.
And that may even lead to doing His words as written and also repent of all your sinning for Jesus' sake, to become born sons of God with power to maintain doing good through Christ, and sin not in Christ Jesus.
Everyone knows these are the words of salvation and life in the Bible, because they are the words themselves. And so, no one has ever even bothered trying to show any difference between the words in the Bible, and as I write them here.
As in your case. You just go on to repeat your own words around mine, and even try to change my words to fit yours. The Bible don't change for you, and neither do I. I love the Bible way more than your book.

I have to go, now. I've already responded to these things.
Methinks thou needest to refine your doctrine to weed out the error.
I think I'll still be here when you come to the knowledge of the truth.
Boo Boo.

 

[jeremiah1five]

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Well, actually the Bible says every where. But that's just translation. The meaning is the same.

Everywhere the twelve tribes were scattered. That's the context. God is not that concerned with anyone not in covenant. If He was, they'd BE in covenant.

No, let's not.
This is the thing about people writing their own books. They don't want to just say they don't believe God is saying every where, or everywhere. So, they get all scholarly to change it to their own liking, rather than just say it.

No, let's not.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
God is still commanding all men every where (everywhere) to repent. And God's Christian preachers preach it all men every where (everywhere).

Yes, to the twelve tribes scattered everywhere.

Under the law of Moses to children of Israel only.
Under the law of Christ to all men every where (everywhere), to be the Israel of God.

God made no covenant with Gentiles. So, it doesn't jive.

The context is of men, to which Peter was a man, who also needed longsuffering from the Lord to repent.

Peter's was the GREATER sin than Judas.
All Judas did was reveal where Jesus took His disciples to get away from the crowds. It was secret. Peter DENIED the Lord.
Judas went up to His Master and in effect said, "Here He is. This is the Christ!!!
BIG difference. And yet everyone overlooks this fact. Strange. Picking on Judas when Peter had the greater sin, that sinner!

Repeating your book's writings is not effective with me. I only repeat God's Book.

Well then, sometimes I post Scripture and other times I paraphrase thinking the reader will pick up on it. But I see the problem isn't my paraphrasing the Word, it the readers lack of knowledge of the paraphrased Scripture ZI post.
Either way - Scripture or paraphrasing - it's all the Word of God.
Read up on the Word because when I'm engaged with someone over the Word I take it for granted they're at the same level of knowledge of me and that's where issues begin. I'll try to use goo goo and gaa gaa. Got milk!

And repeating the teaching of your book, after I have responded to it, is redundant to me. (Especially since you don't so much as acknowledge the responses.)
You will repent in your own time at your own pleasure for your own religion.
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 3:1

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
See that? Writing about the Jews, and then those all men every where(everywhere), that come short of the glory of God, and need to repent.
All men every where (everywhere), not just the Athenians.
When you change the Bible words from what's written, you end up in your own zone.

I don't change bible words. I post it.

Marcion I don't know, but you I do.
I don't shoot you down, but just reject your stuff.

Bullets are more merciful.
You know, the thing is maybe my words are not meant for you. Someone else will read my words and learn something. God is only using you to draw out from me only what you incite from me. How does it feel to be used of God??

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

I agree. And those with less knowledge we give more time.

And I know it goes both ways. I am every bit as much a heretic to you, as you are to me. It is the God of the Bible that judges who is a heretic to His Book.

No, I haven't got that far with you yet. But I do think you're reading the wrong books or attending a wrong church.
And I see evidence I know more and understand deeper than you. But that's OK. I was once like you with my elders years ago. Now I'm an elder dealing with the yung 'uns.

 

[Ghada]

That depends on perspective.

I.e. it depends on what you want to believe, rather than what is true.

It's like changing repent to 'contemplate'. (That's a real hoot and classic.)

The Bible God commands all men everywhere to repent now. Today is the day to repent and be saved. Tomorrow may not come, and there is no repentance with salvation granted by God in the grave.

You say, no not today. We must first 'contemplate' repenting today, or tomorrow, or however long it takes to make an actual change in life.

The 'granted' repentance of your gospel is granting more time to think about it. The grace of your gospel is letting man repent in their own good time.

The problem of course is tomorrow may not come, and there is no repentance granted in the grave.

Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

And we also see how God's command to repent is to His enemies, not His righteous friends and brethren of Jesus, that have ceased from sinning for His sake, and need no repentance.

From God's eternal perspective I am holy, sinless, righteous.

Another base you cover, but nothing new. However, it's right up there ranking high on the lying wonders list. I'm surprised you didn't also throw in being godly for good measure.

And no doubt you like to believe it and tell it to yourself every time you're doing some more ungodly sinning, that you are the righteous doing unrighteousness, and not like the unrighteous doing unrighteousness.

No one doing unholy, ungodly, and unrighteous sinning is holy, sinless, and righteous. Except of course in the great book of strong delusion.

But in my God's book, only the unrighteous are doing unrighteousness, and only those doing righteousness are the righteous.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Any sensible responsible and decent child knows this simple truth, that we are what we do, and only the holy branches bearing holy fruit, proceed from the holy root of God.

However, I don't mind pointing out the obvious, because we see even God Himself actually takes the time to do so. It simply shows your book is nothing new, but has been around since Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

For many deceivers are entered into the world...

The Jews may have been guilty of trusting in their deeds of righteousness, to be righteous without faith toward the God of Israel, However, we know that no Israelite nor Jew, including the disobedient, ever dived into such a deep ditch of greater darkness, by believing they were righteous, while transgressing the law.

We know this, because the necessity of God having to rebuke such nonsense, is only after Christians started justifying themselves by their own belief alone, as being righteous doers of unrighteousness.

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked.

And we can further conclude that all the world before the resurrection of Christ, must have agreed such a self-righteous belief was utterly ridiculous. It's an ancient proverb among all men that says otherwise, and is confirmed as true by God in days of old.

Only after Jesus' coming, death, burial, and resurrection, have there entered into the world such abject folly of believing we are good when doing evil. Even the wicked before the flood, never bothered to entertain such silliness about themselves.

However, there is a hint of your teaching in the OT, where some doe evil, and say they are still good:

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

I used to believe that such a foolish belief only entered into unrighteous Christian religion from the hippy-dippy cumbayaland 60's. But once again, we see God had to deal with it in the days of the apostles, and not until then.

The thing is that we certainly can believe whatever we want about ourselves, and can even write whole doctrinal books to justify it. But the truth remains that all such doctrines end in the grave, and God the Father will just go right ahead and judge us all equally by our works.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

It's our book of works He reads from at that time, not our book of doctrines.

Unfortunately for you, and I mean that sincerely, your book and God is not the one that will be judging you by your doctrinal faith in yourself alone.

You see, I really don't have anything personal against you. And even have some appreciation for the intellectual gymnastics you display in some of your new stuff. I'm a live and let live Christian. However, when Christian sinners such as yourself try to preach to me your self-justifying beliefs, then I'm all too glad to bring in my God's Book to show what He plainly has to say about it.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

From man's perspective in time

Once again, you're nothing if not bold. You acknowledge it's your own man's perspective your teaching, not God's.

Very refreshing.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't argue with created christ believers, nor believers of a christ creating creatures for his wrath.

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise.

Your christ is the god creating his own children of disobedience in his own image. And your prophecy of him is full of yourself. I have nothing to do with your children of the devil creator and maker, nor your 'born before the dawn of ages' prechosen self-lambship

My Christ is only from the Bible, and He creates all things good for His good pleasure, and lightens every man coming into the world.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Nor does He take any pleasure in the death of the wicked, by creating them for that purpose

For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Yours however is a an entirely different christ of your own altogether.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

The True God created some men for the propose of His Wrath, and He doesnt command them to repent. In fact He wills them to continue in their rebellion Matt 23:31-33

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The words to these serpent seed vessels of wrath " Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers." in the original this is a imperative, a command to continue to be ripened for the damnation of hell.

 

[Ghada]

I am a sinner saved by the grace of God.

I know. That goes without saying. I am not a sinner saved by grace. I was a sinner, now saved from sinning by the grace of my God.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day, but God sees me as holy, sinless, righteous.

I love it. I truly do appreciate your honesty. It's so refreshing to see someone just spit it out without all the theological treatises and word games. And no shame about it whatsoever. Boasting even.

I completely agree with you in the first part. The last is not seen by my God today, tomorrow, nor the next.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus says Nay to the holy boast part. Except ye repent as all men everywhere are commanded now, today.

If we were without sin then this passage is a lie:

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Gal. 5:17.

If you were without sin by repenting for Jesus' sake, you would not be applying the Scripture of condemnation upon yourself.

The Scripture remains true for them sinning God.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

That's why some of us whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain need a Savior.

There be many lambs and christs with their books full of shameless sinners.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

You have loudly supplied a perfect example of this:

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day, but God sees me as holy, sinless, righteous.

One horn boasts of sinning as a dragon, and another horn talks holy like a lamb...And both on the same head and at the same time.

The god of this world is man.

Don't over do it. You're not the god of this world. You're only one child of that god.

That means all I have to concern myself with is me, myself, and I, and other sinners, too.

Have at it. Just don't slide any of that concern my way. No help is better than bad help.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom. 8:1.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

That's called walking after the flesh, not after the Spirit.

b.) One day I will die because the penalty for sin is death.

One day we will die bodily, because it's mortal.

You die daily to God by sinning against Him.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

True. He didn't condemn her. Now what?

Go, and sin no more.

That part is left out of most sinners' books.

Then, I pick myself up, wipe my tears, mop the floor, and place my shirt in the electric dryer to dry. Maybe wash it.

Maybe hogwash.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

I see no shame nor tears in these words, but only matter of fact glorying.

Then I walk away knowing I am a conqueror.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

You have conquered shame while sinning, but Jesus makes us more than such conquerors: We have no shame in not sinning.

Does this happen to you?

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

Yes, before I repented for Jesus' sake.

Despite your misrepresentation of me

?? Are you not an unrepented sinner, still sinning today, tomorrow, and onward?

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

and your misrepresentation and misunderstanding of the Holy Word of God I'm the guy that loves the light, goes directly to the light, doesn't pass GO nor collect $200, and that's the truth I do.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
I know that's the truth you do. And because of it, the light you love is of the dark side:

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

What about you? Are you "ALREADY CONDEMNED"

I was. I am not now by not sinning today.

Some say they are not condemned now while sinning today, tomorrow....

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

or are you one who sins, recognizes your sin and go to the Father crying "ABBA FATHER"?

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Romans 8 is only speaking of obedience sons led of the Spirit. Not of the children of disobedience still walking after the flesh.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

And I emphasize the word "CRYING."

Congratulations. So did Esau.

Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
God's sons cry strong enough to our Father not to sin when tempted. Crying after the fact is just sorry at getting caught like Esau.

 

[Ghada]

And why are there true-born-again of God Christians buried in those cemeteries.

Because our bodies are mortal? And we don't leave corpses laying around?

I mean, come on...how will God and His Christ resurrect the physically dead if there is no more sin which leads to no more death and no more cemeteries. Explain that.

I see, your speaking as a carnal natural man (which is not surprising for someone walking after the flesh). You think death by sinning is the mortal body.

The soul dies to God's life by sinning. The body dies by nature.

Do you believe like the JWs that the soul is the body?

That's been done. I'm saved. But I'm still in this body of this death. Death is the penalty for sin. God said that: The soul that sinneth shall die.

The body of death is the life of sinning with the body.

So, you do say the soul is the natural body?

how can I die if my sin has been paid for by Christ?

By sinning, of course.

So, do you also believe all your sinning is forgiven past, present, and future?

Then the Holy Spirit assists me in my prayer in my asking the Father to forgive me

So, you don't believe all your sinning past, present, and future is already forgiven?

 

[Ghada]

If that's not enough there is this guy who demonstrates it in a personal way:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom.7:14–24.

The guy God is speaking of, sees his double heartedness as wretchedness and in need of deliverance.

Once we do, we can then go on to perfection of Romans 8, where the heat is single and the word is done, not just heard.

So here's the $20,000 question:
a.) Christ atoned for the sin of God's elect on His cross at Calvary.

No. Jesus' shed natural blood did not atone for any man's sinning, but only condemned all sinners as slayers of God's dear Son.

Jesus' death at the cross is the condemnation of the world, not the world's salvation.

The atonement of His spiritual blood is only after His resurrection, and is only for repented saints to dring freely.

The debt of my sin has been paid for by my substitute on the cross.

The only one paying for anything on Jesus' cross, was Jesus. He was paying for the cost of obedience to the Father in all things:

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

And He paid that cost of obedience with His body in His own blood at the hands of sinful men.

The only sins of man paid for after His resurrection, are the past old sins repented of for Jesus' sake.

and the confidence thereafter through the Spirit confirming within me I am still a child of God.

This is true, if we do sin and return to the Lord Jesus to confess our sinning and repent, then we can certainly still be forgiven and reconciled to God.

Thanks to His victory made on His cross.

Jesus' victory was with His resurrection.

On the cross, all sinners condemned themselves in slaying the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Ghada]

Sorry, but I hold to Scripture which teaches me there are two perspectives to observe when studying Scripture

So, you acknowledge there is the Bible perspective, and then there is your own perspective. When the Bible doesn't fit with yours, then you just write your own book of perspective.

and 1 John is describing both perspectives. You just fail to make distinction

I've been making the distinction between the Bible perspective and your perspective this whole time.

and only see what you want to see.

Sounds cultish to me.

Only seeing and believing the Bible words, is indeed cultish to some. It cuts off all other perspectives.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It's called Sola Scriptura, which the Catholics reject by their own perspective.

Everywhere? You mean non-covenant Gentiles, too?Any call for men everywhere to repent must be taken in context to whom God is speaking to and He is speaking to Israel,

Here we have a perfect example of how all sense may be cast away, in order to doctrinally justify oneself. It includes historical fact, and not just spiritual error.

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

Paul the Christian apostle called to the Gentiles was speaking to Athenians from Ares' hill, not Israel nor Israelites.

Athens at the time was truly a place for all men everywhere, much like all Jews everywhere at Jerusalem on Pentecost.

Ares' hill was the largest public speaking forum of the world. It was the Olympics of all debate about religion, philosophy, sciences, politics, etc...

There were of course some Jews there, but the only ones mentioned as immediately believing the gospel were Athenians.

Let's put it in perspective.

We see from the above, the proof of what you call perspective.

Your perspective is of having nothing to do with any Bible truth, including recorded history, if it interferes with your 'perspective'.

And that great and grand perspective you trumpet so loudly about yourself, is summed up with declaring yourself holy, sinless, and righteous, while, I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

You are definitely a trip, that's for sure.

 

[Ghada]

The True God created some men for the propose of His Wrath, and He doesnt command them to repent. In fact He wills them to continue in their rebellion Matt 23:31-33

I reject your god and creator of sinful children.

 

[Ghada]

YOU, AGAIN!

If you don't want me to reply to your replies to me, then don't reply to me.

You're acting strange.

First, there is no "heart" to confess from. The word "heart" in the OT meant the "whole being" of a person. The "heart" does not think.

So, is your book getting even stranger.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

That's the problem with your heart. It's not only full of lust, but it doesn't want to admit it.

God ordained that function to the brain/mind.

A great definition of the natural man's carnal mindedness. As they say, many people miss God, because they only think with their brain, not with their heart.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

The mind of a man is the spirit of man in him. It's how man is created in the image of God. Which the natural man rejects.

So, if one is confessing from their "heart" they're confessing from their "whole being" of their life.

Exactly, which is the only repentance God accepts: a whole heart and life ceasing to lust and sin.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Second, any godly sorrow is Holy Spirit sorrow. Before the Holy Spirit EVERYONE had 'worldly' sorrow,

Godly sorrow is unto repentance of sinning, which is unto life. Worldly sorrow is being sorry without repenting, which is unto death.

The Holy Spirit was NOT with Adam.

Stranger still.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God breathes Spirit, not air.

He was created body, soul, and human spirit - a human spirit that allowed him to communicate with Creator God and which died "in the day" he ate of the Tree,

His soul died that day, just as every soul that sins dies that day.

and which human spirit God did not restore for after his sin the communication changed and was more practical that spiritual (NOT Holy Spirit.)

By your writings, I can certainly see how what you call spiritual is not practical at all. Especially since your spirituality results in walking after the flesh.

Upon all flesh is not ALL humans,

Right, just like all men everywhere, is not all men everywhere.

but in context in which the word is used and to whom it was spoken to it means ALL Israel.

Right, just like the Athenians Paul preached to in Athens was Israel.

You're getting stranger in your teaching, as well as departing practical fact.

And all this effort for what? To justify yourself while sinning. It always seems to come down to that one simple fact, when Christians begin trying to change the Bible to fit their own perspective.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Surely you don't believe He was "poured out on all flesh" and every human has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.

I'm not surprised when I see people that twist the Bible around, also twist the teaching of the Bible around.

The Holy Spirit isn't dwelling in any person sinning today, tomorrow, and...

So, the national repenting with sackcloth and ashes and wailing and crying for their sin of following and serving the gods of the hated Gentiles, those uncircumcised Philistines - like when the Book of the Covenant was found in the Temple, and it was read, and they learned they were doing things wrong...that worldly sorrow didn't assist in their repentance? But it did for God responded and forgave them and things went forward.

God doesn't respond to worldly sorrow except with death, nor the unrepented sinning with worldly sorrow.

God only saves them that receives His godly sorrow into the heart to repent and cease the sinning.

You know, there would be no issue had Saul not said what he said and ignorant people take his words and make a doctrine out of it.

I agree. Taking God's words from the Bible and making their own perspective out of it.

So, I think you should drop that heresy of a doctrine of demons and come to the light.

Whatever.

Sackcloth and ashes and wailing with tears, crying out in sorrow for their sins and God honored their "worldly" sorrow. That's what you call it, right?

No. I'm talking about your and Esau's worldly sorrow of wiping up snot and tears without repenting.

You call it that because there's no Holy (godly) Spirit behind it all.

Correct. The sorrow of the world that repents not, has not the Holy Spirit, but only death toward God.

The common man in Israel did not have the Holy Spirit because He had not yet been poured out. Fix your doctrine, Ol' Wise One.

Read above about them twisting the Bible, will also twist teaching of the Bible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I.e. it depends on what you want to believe, rather than what is true.
It's like changing repent to 'contemplate'. (That's a real hoot and classic.)

You misunderstand me. I'm not changing anything merely pointing out the before God created anything He contemplated His elect in His Mind in eternity which is in Himself. That contemplation was a people holy, sinless, and righteous. And in order to make sons of God it was necessary to created heaven, earth, and then man and the realm of time in which we exist and are bound. He could do it no other way.
And in that contemplation, it was necessary to also provide all the workings of what we cal salvation: faith, conversion by the Holy Spirit, repentance, etc.
By your responses I see you haven't thought that through or deeply.

The Bible God commands all men everywhere to repent now. Today is the day to repent and be saved. Tomorrow may not come, and there is no repentance with salvation granted by God in the grave.

The Hebrew Scriptures were written to the Hebrew people by a Hebrew (Moses; Pentateuch) and then by Jews to and for other Jews. As the New Covenant was initiated, a New Covenant God made with the House of Israel the writings are again written to Hebrews, Jews, and Jewish Christians and such words you cite must be taken in context to WHOM God was writing to, and again, as with the Hebrew Scripture and to whom those writings are written about: Abraham, children of Israel, the Judges period, the kingdom period, and the prophecies of the Jewish prophets upon the Jewish people the New Covenant writings to Jewish Christians are no different. When you read God saying "Gather the people together" while they were in the desert, He is not saying everyone in the desert, in the mountains, in the coastlines, in Arabia, in Lebanon, in Syria, and all the Gentiles you can find, but the children of Israel.
Why invite "everyone" to repent but God only saves and is speaking to the children of Israel and will save the children of Israel, and deal with the children of Israel in covenant and saved ONLY the children of Israel in covenant. Context, context, context. God made NOM COVENANT with Gentiles and therefore is not talking about Gentiles who have no covenant with God.

You say, no not today. We must first 'contemplate' repenting today, or tomorrow, or however long it takes to make an actual change in life.

Again, because you have not thought through what I have thought through you fall short and misunderstand my words.

The 'granted' repentance of your gospel is granting more time to think about it. The grace of your gospel is letting man repent in their own good time.

There is "in their own good time" because God controls how long that time is, not man. Plus, the influence or lack of influence by the Holy Spirit upon a person is Sovereignly the realm of God, not man. Like the cloud by day and pillar of fire by night, when God moves the people move; when God stops the people stop. And if God chooses to save someone at the age of 21 and another at the age of 54 it is God who grants to one person repentance at 21 and grants repentance to another at 54.

The problem of course is tomorrow may not come, and there is no repentance granted in the grave.

When God controls tomorrow then we are secure. Tomorrow is not promised, but yesterday before I fell asleep last night, I knew I would wake up and have a 'tomorrow' which is today and I'm responding to you in that tomorrow.
That depends on who God is speaking to and whether it is God or human king doing the speaking.

God controls how much time I spend in the mountaintop and well as how much time I spend in the valley. God even controls whether I backslide in fellowship with Him, go off sinning, not sin, not go to church, smoke that cigarette, that joint, until like the Prodigal Son God even controls my "coming to myself" and it is He that has ordained the path back to Him. Unlike you, my theology of belief is God-centered, and I give Him ALL the glory for all that happens in the world, and YOU and your man-centered way of looking at things. Everything in creation even the day of one's death and birth, and re-birth is ordained by God.
The thing about living in this body of this death is that although saved from sin by Christ who died in my stead I am still under judgment for sin in my life for sin. IF Christ paid for my sin WHY is there a day of my death for sin? C'mon Genius. Tell me.
If I am righteous, holy, and sinless in my re-birth then why will I die for unrighteous, unholy, sinful life in this world? Didn't Christ pay the penalty of my sin by dying in my stead? Then why will I still die for my sin? Or am I dying for someone else's sin? Death is the penalty for sin, Christ died for my sin, but I will still die at the end of my life and death is the penalty for sin. BUT didn't Christ die in my stead and for my sin? Why will I die as the result of sin in my life? I'm not going to live forever after being born again and living a righteous, obedient life in Christ. I will die one day and death is the penalty for sin. What's up with that? Tell me, O' great and wise in-a-Ghada-da-vida.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Define "kingdom of God."
Define "kingdom of God.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Can man make a tree at all without planting a seed?
The tree and branches are Israel. you're taking it out of context.

...while transgressing the law.

Maybe that's because all they knew was letter of the Law which contained no faith at all. Israel was KEPT UNTIL FAITH SHOULD APPEAR and He didn't appear during the time of Moses, but in the New Covenant era.
Depends on the application.

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked.

I agree. Sin comes from sinner. Which is why Adam sinned. He was a sinner before the act of sin and sinned because sin comes from sinner as wickedness comes from the wicked leaving us to the truthful conclusion that Adam was created sinful or as the word is defined, "missing the mark" of the glory of God.
You are looking at it all from the perspective of grace and with a Gentile mindset. Now look at it from the perspective of a Jew living under the Law AND THEN faith appeared and the transition between the two in actual practicality.
How could they? Faith hadn't appeared during their time so put yourself in their shoes and THEN interpret the Scripture. Because in our day and age we can look back and make all kinds of judgments as to why they didn't do this or that. We have a better picture of God's Redemption being in the New Covenant era, but they didn't. "We" can pass judgment NOW because we have more light and more Scripture in that light, but can you interpret redemption, salvation, repentance, faith as a Jew/Hebrew living at the time of the Tabernacle or 3 years before Christ arrived?

However, there is a hint of your teaching in the OT, where some doe evil, and say they are still good:

That's what's written in the OT. It's nothing new.

I used to believe that such a foolish belief only entered into unrighteous Christian religion from the hippy-dippy cumbayaland 60's. But once again, we see God had to deal with it in the days of the apostles, and not until then.

Cumbaya, little one, cumbaya.

Edited for space.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I know. That goes without saying. I am not a sinner saved by grace. I was a sinner, now saved from sinning by the grace of my God.
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Are you going to leave me space to reply because the limit is 10,000 characters and it seems you've taken up 9,900 characters. We'll see at the end.

I love it. I truly do appreciate your honesty. It's so refreshing to see someone just spit it out without all the theological treatises and word games. And no shame about it whatsoever. Boasting even.

Well, we all do have one thing we love at a time, don't we? I'm honored I am your one thing you love. But let's get back to bible and what's written there for our training and admonition.

I completely agree with you in the first part. The last is not seen by my God today, tomorrow, nor the next.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Jesus says Nay to the holy boast part. Except ye repent as all men everywhere are commanded now, today.

Repentance is a covenant grace, and it is given to Israel in covenant, NOT to anyone NOT in covenant. So, the "everyman everywhere" can only be understood as referring to covenant Israel, NOT "everyman everywhere" NOT in covenant.

If you were without sin by repenting for Jesus' sake, you would not be applying the Scripture of condemnation upon yourself.
The Scripture remains true for them sinning God.
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...

That's true. I'm not looking forward to it but tomorrow I will fall short in some fashion. The word for that is "sin." Yup. I will sin tomorrow. But that sin or sins has been paid for.

There be many lambs and christs with their books full of shameless sinners.
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
You have loudly supplied a perfect example of this:
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day, but God sees me as holy, sinless, righteous.
One horn boasts of sinning as a dragon, and another horn talks holy like a lamb...And both on the same head and at the same time.
Don't over do it. You're not the god of this world. You're only one child of that god.

That's true. In a sense. But I only have one father and He's in heaven, not on earth.

Have at it. Just don't slide any of that concern my way. No help is better than bad help.
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
That's called walking after the flesh, not after the Spirit.

No, that's called being biblical:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 Jn 1:7–8.

So, having the truth in me I will sin sometime later before I go to sleep, might sin in my dreams, will sin tomorrow, and the next day according to the Scripture.
You see, I NOT saying I have no sin as you are saying you have no sin - I'm saying the same thing as God.
You're not.

One day we will die bodily, because it's mortal.

Semantics. Say it truthfully. Say it, "One day we will die because of sin."

You die daily to God by sinning against Him.
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
Go, and sin no more.
That part is left out of most sinners' books.

Yeah, and I will suffer for sin, too.
It's not fun.

Maybe hogwash.

Oink

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
I see no shame nor tears in these words, but only matter of fact glorying.
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
You have conquered shame while sinning, but Jesus makes us more than such conquerors: We have no shame in not sinning.
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
Yes, before I repented for Jesus' sake.
?? Are you not an unrepented sinner, still sinning today, tomorrow, and onward?
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
I know that's the truth you do. And because of it, the light you love is of the dark side:
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
I was. I am not now by not sinning today.
Some say they are not condemned now while sinning today, tomorrow....

That would be me:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, Rom. 8:1.

That would be me.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Not gunna do it.

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
Romans 8 is only speaking of obedience sons led of the Spirit. Not of the children of disobedience still walking after the flesh.

My salvation is not based on obedience. It is based on the work of Christ on the cross. "It [was] finished!"
And then after I am saved eternally my sins are paid for past, present, and future and my salvation is secure. I can say confidently and definitively on the day of my death I will be accepted in the beloved and angels will carry me UP, not down.

I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day...
Congratulations. So did Esau.

So did Saul.

Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
God's sons cry strong enough to our Father not to sin when tempted. Crying after the fact is just sorry at getting caught like Esau.

And like Saul:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom. 7:14–21.

If Saul was as sinless as you he would not have said these things and would have instead said "I can walk on water!"

Without sinking.

In this world.

Now.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Because our bodies are mortal? And we don't leave corpses laying around?

How can our bodies, well, your body, be mortal and yet you claim no sin which would mean you're immortal?
And yet, death is the penalty for sin and one day if the Lord tarries, you will die? And yet you claim you don't sin? How does that compute?

I see, your speaking as a carnal natural man (which is not surprising for someone walking after the flesh). You think death by sinning is the mortal body.

I don't think it. Well, I do, because it's biblical.

The soul dies to God's life by sinning. The body dies by nature.

Well, Boo Boo, there's your Boo Boo. The soul doesn't die.

Do you believe like the JWs that the soul is the body?

The soul is contained and is related to the body which keeps it contained while alive for I need in my body what the soul provides, and that is, mind, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience, and will.

The body of death is the life of sinning with the body.

The life of the body is death.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom. 7:23–24.

That wretched man, Saul, has a way with words, don't you think? I mean, he says his body is death (sinful), because if he calls his body death and death is the penalty for sin, then he's saying his body is sin, and as you so eloquently said in quoting 1 Sam. 24:13 "wickedness comes from the wicked" his sin comes from his being a sinner, or should I say, a saved sinner. And he still sins:

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom. 7:25.

So, you do say the soul is the natural body?

Nope.

By sinning, of course.
So, do you also believe all your sinning is forgiven past, present, and future?

Yup. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever.
And you'll notice the TIME factor in presenting Jesus Christ in the dispensation of TIME. In eternity there is no yesterday, today, and forever. Just forever.

So, you don't believe all your sinning past, present, and future is already forgiven?

I believe all my sin past, present, and future is atoned.
I also believe I am in this body of this death which has in my atonement being imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness imputed to me. Except it won't be actualized until the twinkle-twinkle of His eye and I shall be changed, and my corruption will be raised incorruption.
But as you can see the implication is that right now it is in the state of corruption UNTIL it is raised to incorruption at some soon future date.

It's been established that death is the penalty for sin, right?
Yet, people in Christ still die. Well, how can they die if their sin has been atoned and paid for. They should live forever if their sin was REALLY paid for by someone else, right?
But we still carry bodies in pine and mahogany boxes to cemeteries and place them into holes in the ground called graves.
Well Genius, did Jesus Christ REALLY pay for our sin in our stead or not?
What's your sinless answer?

 

[jeremiah1five]

The guy God is speaking of, sees his double heartedness as wretchedness and in need of deliverance.

Ah, so we're adding to the bible now?
There's no mention of "double-heartedness."

Once we do, we can then go on to perfection of Romans 8, where the heat is single and the word is done, not just heard.
No. Jesus' shed natural blood did not atone for any man's sinning, but only condemned all sinners as slayers of God's dear Son.

Now here I have to check you on speaking heresy. Christ died on a cross on Calvary to atone for the sin of God's elect - that is, Israel, as per covenant, promises, and prophecy.
And man didn't kill Jesus. God ordained and predestined it in eternity and performed it in eternity and performed it in TIME for our visual and faithful need.

Jesus' death at the cross is the condemnation of the world, not the world's salvation.

No, it is for the salvation of God's elect which is His Church and is His Bride. In other word, for Israel. There's a reason why Salvation is of the Jews. There is nowhere in Scripture that says, Salvation is of the Gentiles.

The atonement of His spiritual blood is only after His resurrection, and is only for repented saints to dring freely.

No, death affected His physical body.

The only one paying for anything on Jesus' cross, was Jesus. He was paying for the cost of obedience to the Father in all things:

Among other things.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
And He paid that cost of obedience with His body in His own blood at the hands of sinful men.

At the hands of God. He was afflicted, SMITTEN OF GOD. There is NO WAY God is going to allow men kill His Son. He did what Abraham almost did and that was, there was NO ONE to stop Him when He raised the knife to slay His Son on an altar HE BUILT.

The only sins of man paid for after His resurrection, are the past old sins repented of for Jesus' sake.

So, tell me, will Christ come again and return to a cross and pay for future sins?

This is true, if we do sin and return to the Lord Jesus to confess our sinning and repent, then we can certainly still be forgiven and reconciled to God.

It's already been done. It is FINISHED!

Jesus' victory was with His resurrection.

Jesus' victory was PROVEN BY His resurrection.

On the cross, all sinners condemned themselves in slaying the only begotten Son of God.

Man did not "slay" the Son of God.
The Jews did not "slay" the Son of God, the Romans did not "slay" the Son of God.
The Father did it.