Well said, and thanks for nothing!
Some things truly are just best left unsaid.
Now that's all cleared up, we'll be going on with the argument...and again, thanks for nothing! We do appreciate it.
No repentance for God is by our own will power alone
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Some things truly are just best left unsaid.
Now that's all cleared up, we'll be going on with the argument...and again, thanks for nothing! We do appreciate it.
All that just to say Jesus is not warning to repent, lest we perish.
No, He's only warning His own disciples to repent, lest they cycle out of the next grade level...
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
All that just to say Jesus is not saying repent, lest we perish like others that repent not.
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
What the Bible is telling us, is that there are some that don't want knowledge of the truth, and will also go on to incredibly great lengths of 'study' and 'scholarship', just to believe something different than the plain words of truth.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
All the pseudo-Bible finery and arguments are just for appearances sake, rather than just being honest and say they don't believe Jesus' own words as spoken.
I mean, isn't it just simpler to say 'nah-ah'? But, what we see here is a great example of how some people find it much more intellectually stimulating, to write a whole treatise on how no disciples of Jesus Christ can ever perish, while not repenting as commanded and warned like all men everywhere.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
And yet, the words remain the same, and will never be changed by any man, much less by Jesus Himself, into something else to justify an hardened unrepented heart before God.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
It's one thing to think we can make up our own saving doctrine for ourselves while sinning with the world. And it's another thing to play it to our ears and conscience when necessary in this life.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
However, the entirely delusional thing is that any man can play his very own doctrine card to God from the grave.
The stay-out-jail-free card while breaking the law, is only good for the willfully blind and unrepenting transgressors.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
The accusation against the Bible gospel of repenting unto salvation in 2 Cor 7, is that such repentance is only by man's own will 'to save himself'. (See post #12)
The defense of the Bible gospel of repenting unto salvation, is that it is also by commandment of God.
Since it is the express will of God for all men to repent, then men repenting by His commandment, cannot possibly be repenting by their own will alone, and especially not repenting contrary to His will.
And so, perhaps this works better: No repentance for God, is by our own will and power alone.
The silly accusation is only made by unrepented sinners, trying to justify their continued hardness of hearts in unrighteous works.
And it's usually accompanied with the fraudulent claim of waiting to repent 'by grace'. Which is only grace-talk for only repenting when we feel like it at our own leisurely convenience.
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Such unrepented children of disobedience declare God has no grace in commanding men everywhere to repent now, and not later. They will only repent when they're good and ready to by their own grace, and not a moment before.
Like spoiled brats, they only do what they want to do, and when they want to do it, and not just because someone tells them to. Including the Lord Himself.
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
I make the same defence Paul stood for in the gospel of repentance unto salvation and life. He too had to contend with other gospels that demanded salvation first, with piercements repentance following at will of the 'saved believers'.
We defend the Lord's right of absolute victory over all His enemies by His resurrection from the dead, to command unconditional surrender and full repentance, in order to be shown free mercy.
The gospel of salvation unto partial repentance 'in due time', is the counter-demand of conditional surrender made by the Lord's hardened enemies, that refuse to repent now and fully.
No repentance for God is by our own will power alone.
Sometimes just reading the title alone clears things up enough to know what someone is talking about. I understand how some people don't want to read the actual explanation, if they already disagree, but not even the title?
Apparently it's not so easy to just shake off certain challenges, when you have to try twice without answering it.
As a disobedient little child, you won't change just because you're told to, but only if you feel like it.
Nowhere does the Bible say that men 'may only repent', when God smothers the children of disobedience with grace and kisses to do so.
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Man repenting by commandment of God for Jesus' sake, is man exalting himself over God...
Some people are so averse to anything that remotely sounds challenging to their own will, that they revert to the usual accusations against others.
Without first stopping to think, that they are in fact accusing God's commandment man to repent now for Jesus's sake, is forcing man to exalt himself over God, by obeying God and repenting now for Jesus' sake.
True. And it's according to His commandment to repent of all sinning now, not later at one's own convenience.
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
The unrepentant spoiled children will only do what they want, when they want, and not a moment before, just because someone tells them too.
The religious ones call it 'waiting' to repent 'by grace alone', and not by any old lordly 'commandment'.
I'm not here to be meek about begging people to repent for their own soul's sake, before it's too late.
Especially not with the hardened hearts, that accuse my Lord's gospel of being overly harsh and demanding of all sinners to repent of sinning now, not later.
Oh, right. Only idolators are 'commanded' to repent. Fornicators, thieves, vile cursers, evil surmisers, etc...they can repent at their leisure.
Especially those of the Christian sort...
Ah yes. The good ol' Jews gospel only. Preached by Christian apostles chosen by the resurrected Jesus Christ.
Amazing the hoops people will go through to not say what the Bible clearly says.
No repentance for God is by our own will power alone
Sometimes the title alone is sufficient to know where someone is coming from...Does. Not just can. Does.
Only those who do repent for Jesus' sake, do believe God from the heart.
I do fail to comprehend this.
I'll stick with the simplicity of Christ:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Those wo do repent for Jesus' sake, also walk with Jesus' for His righteousness sake.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
There is no eternal life with bondage to sin and death.
We don't repent just to live better, but to be delivered from sinning and have eternal life with God.
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
The habitual sinners haven't repented yet. Their only hope from God is the same for all sinners everywhere, to repent for Jesus' sake, and live holy and righteously with Him with hope of resurrection unto life.
When they are indoctrinated into believing they have life without repenting...
No man can be resurrected through Jesus Christ without keeping His commandments.
But to believe in doctrine, that we can instead wait around to repent, only when we feel like it 'by grace'.
The other news for sinners finding their consciences put to rest from guilt while sinning...
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
The delusion for the Christian ages is the opposing gospel of being saved unto limited repentance, rather than whole hearted repentance unto saving of the soul.
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
No unrepented sinner will play his own little justification doctrine card from the grave.
Including the burden of sin, which is made by doctrine no burden at all.
It makes it so much easier to keep sinning, when doctrine says you can while being saved forever. Especially the more the conscience is seared from any conviction of the Spirit to repent and be saved.
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jeremiah1five
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And you represent who again?Well said, and thanks for nothing!
Some things truly are just best left unsaid.
Now that's all cleared up, we'll be going on with the argument...and again, thanks for nothing! We do appreciate it.
brightfame52
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Several ways.
First off, repentance is simply knowing a change in life is needed. Any person by virtue of being created in the image of God, has power to repent of anything, in order to change our life.
However, such repentance is only for a corruptible crown of this life only, such as health, family, career, etc...(Which is not wrong in itself, but is not the godly repentance unto salvation and resurrection to life.)
The repentance of a godly sort is only granted by God for Jesus' sake, and not just for temporal benefit. And that repentance is from all sinning, and not just from some more grievous deeds and manners. This is the only repentance from God that leads to the incorruptible crown of righteousness and everlasting life
Conclusion: The blessedness of sinners knowing the need to repent, not just for success in this life, but toward God, is only by the grace of God's conviction and draw to repentance, for His name's sake:
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
And so godly repentance of lust and sinning, is for faith toward God Himself, and not just for bettering our life on earth.
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of course. It's called reading the Bible to know what God says is sin against Him, and believing it.
And, even if we're not sure of the specifics, the law of the Spirit is to keep a clean conscience by only doing or not doing things as unto the Lord by faith.
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Logic and reasoning are what Christ lightens us all with coming into the world. It only becomes a problem when not conformed to Scripture.
The doctrine taught here is that we must first receive Christ unto salvation, before we can possibly have power to repent toward God.
However, the Bible says we must repent to receive Christ.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
By believing God's words over our own reasoning, then the real question is how to repent to have Christ.
Man's reasoning of being saved first, and only then repent, never results in repenting of all sinning, but of continued unrepented righteousness in part.
God's words always lead to righteousness, with repentance from all sinning.
True. By grace God grants repentance with His godly sorrow, to receive Jesus conversion and salvation from sinning.
The gospel of being converted and saved first by faith alone, without repenting of sinning, is of man partly surrendering to religion only.
Of course. It's only done by dishonest hearts and in two ways in the Bible:
First there is the unbelieving hearts doing outward righteousness by works of the law only.
Then there is the unrepented hearts doing outward unrighteousness against the law of God, while claiming 'inward' righteousness by their own faith alone.
While the Pharisitical righteousness of unbelieving Jews is most common in the OT, God still foresaw the outwardly unrighteous Christians claiming inward purity:
Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.
Honesty of heart and believing all the words of Jesus and God in His Book.
Not deluding ourselves into thinking we are somehow so special by our 'heartfelt' faith, that we think the law of sin and death no longer applies to us, but only to 'other people' that don't 'believe' like us.
Thanks for your honest questions and challenge. If you see any error in my reasoning from the verses I give. I'd be glad to see it. It's about perfecting the doctrine of the Bible.
Since you made a general post, then that normally means to all the participants.
If it's only to me, then again, Thanks for nothing! I do appreciate it.
Mercy_Shown
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No, I found your answer quite insightful.
Mercy_Shown
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That is not what I intended. I can see how what I wrote was confusing. What I intended to convey was that we come to repentance by the power of God. In other words, we are drawn by the Father to the Son. You are very correct to point out that we must repent to receive Christ. I was simply saying that it is the working of Christ and His agencies upon our hearts that brings us to repentance where we then can receive Him. Of course, repentance will still remain necessary for us as the Holy SPirit continues to reveal us to ourselves.
Amen. If we do not repent, it means we do not hate sin. We still love darkness more than light and thus it will be when our verdict is read.
You are right on!
Mercy_Shown
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Every person that you would label as having false beliefs probably would think the same about you. Believing that we are right while others are wrong is one of the major failings of mankind. The bible warns us not to lean onto our own understanding.
The commandment to repent is to all.
Only those that do repent for Jesus' sake are elected to receive His saving faith.
To know the will of God and obey Him.
True. No unrepented sinner knows nor walks with Jesus.
No, that salvation of the body is only in the resurrection unto life.
The salvation of our soul and life in the flesh is now.
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
When the Bible speaks of the 'body' being blameless now, it is speaking of the life we now live in the body. Even as the old 'body of death' is the old man and life we lived without Christ.
Sinning in the flesh is walking in the flesh, even as not sinning in the Spirit is walking in the Spirit.
Pertaining to our manner of life in the flesh or in the Spirit, is not pertaining to being bodily in the flesh on earth.
Otherwise, Jesus Christ Himself was not come in the flesh.
Forgive me. I apologize. Iv'e unfortunately become accustomed to people trying to hide what they're really saying, without just saying it. Instead, they try to cloke it in 'better' words. It's what they did with Jesus, and what Paul calls pretty speeches.
And so, it's rare and refreshing to see someone actually teaching the Bible as it's written, without trying to shift it around.
I should have said, if you were teaching it. I'll remember the correction in the future. Thanks.
Amen. This is a much better teaching than what I once did. We should always include it is God's repentance, and His godly sorrow given to us by His grace, that we might obtain mercy and enter into His kingdom. It's also His Son's saving faith we are given to do so and keep it that way.
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that are keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
A slight correction here. Confession of hidden faults revealed for forgiveness, is not still repenting of unrighteous works of the flesh.
It's all such dead works that are repented of by grace of God, in order to receive His promised new heart and life of Jesus' Christs prophesied New Covenant.
This is almost too good to heart these days. When God says His sons love righteousness and hate iniquity, He's talking about us eschewing evil and doing good.
Some pervert this into a hating of the mind only, which they call 'repenting with the mind'. They therefore now justify themselves by so-called 'hating it' while still sinning, rather than enjoying it.
They not only preach a lukewarm gospel of sinning less, but also of getting 'less fun' out of the unrepented sinning.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that is sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
They continue the perversion by declaring they are now 'in the light', by 'hating' sinning in the mind.
All it is, is the unrepented sinners'; gospel for hearers only, that have heard the word of truth, and do have their minds changed about sinning, but they do not the word of truth, by changing the heart from the sinning.
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
You are right on it too. It truly is the case that many are called to repentance, but only few are chosen to do so.
Not because God is not willing for all men to repent, but because not all men are willing to repent. At least not God's way, which is from all sinning, not just some, and for Jesus' sake, not just for better 'Christian' living.
Once man separates repenting of dead works from saving faith, then he separates his toward works from inward faith. They literally make a religion of the unrighteous, preaching a gradual righteousness by works alone.
They claim an inner righteousness by faith alone without works, while preaching an outward righteousness by works alone without faith.
They separate all their works from any faith, just so doctrinally they can keep their 'saving' faith untainted by their works. Which makes sense, since their works are still unrighteous, which cannot be with faith toward God.
The unrepented sinners' gospel is not saved by faith alone without any works, but is in practice unrighteous man's salvation by faith alone with dead works continuing...
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