Luther tried

[Arch Stanton]

I agree ... and hubris.

and he [Luther] had many opportunities to correct his behavior

 

[atpollard]

and he [Luther] had many opportunities to correct his behavior

Just as the Roman Emperors gave Christians every opportunity to worship them rather than be executed. It must be something in the water at Rome ... perhaps the lead pipes?

That still doesn't explain why the RCC condemn the selling of indulgences AFTER the "revolt" but condemn Luther for condemning the selling of indulgences BEFORE the "revolt"? Did Luther appeal his case to a Higher Authority than the Pope upon his death?

 

[Arch Stanton]

That still doesn't explain why the RCC condemn the selling of indulgences AFTER the "revolt"

Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church

CCC 1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90

 

[David1701]

Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church

CCC 1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90

Can you not see how this heresy places the RC organisation in-between the Lord and his people? It is a dreadful misapplication of the "binding and loosing" scripture. Mind you, it does conform to the attitude of the current "Pope", who says that a personal relationship with Jesus is very dangerous!

 

[Arch Stanton]

Can you not see how this heresy places the RC organisation in-between the Lord and his people?

when one calls it an organization separate from Christ -- sure

It is a dreadful misapplication of the "binding and loosing" scripture.

do you understand the word 'whatever' -- you bind....?

 

[Mr GLee]

Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church

CCC 1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90

Indulgence? The kind that lessens time of sufferings and wondering in Limbo or Purgatory?

No man can serve two writen teaching masters. (1)Sola scriptura as it is writen by the finger of God and (2)the oral law of the fathers dying mankind (CCC) as it is writen ? Which one?

Can't serve the law of the fathers, Kings queens venerable oral traditons of dying mankind, that went around murdering torturing anyone that did not agree with their own personal relationship high Priest or Pope called a daysman .

Saul who was guilty of worshiping a dying man (Pope) law of the fathers

He as born again Paul became #1 on most wanted dead or alive .

They tried to prove that all things writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) was heresy and there CCC 1478 was a higher authority coming from a succession of dying mankind .

Paul moved by the Spirit of Christ turned inspirational thing right side up rather earthly worshipping a legion of fathers (patron saints) as workers with familiar spirts. . his and hers gods (3,509and rising)

.Paul worshiped the one Father in heaven . hallow be his name. Not hallow the legion of patron saints (CCC)

Acts 14:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:. . . . (sola scriptura)

Mankind defends that which they think defends themselves with the spiritual unseen matters.

Things of God called faith the power of Christ as it is written

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: . . . not the words of the (CCC 1478)

Whose source of Devine faith must you following after? The CCC 1478??????

 

[David1701]

when one calls it an organization separate from Christ -- sure

do you understand the word 'whatever' -- you bind....?

Matt. 18:18 (NASB) Truly I say to you, whatever you [a]bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you [c]loose on earth [d]shall have been loosed in heaven.

a Matthew 18:18 I.e., forbid
b Matthew 18:18 Gr fut. pft. pass. tense
c Matthew 18:18 I.e., permit
d Matthew 18:18 Gr fut. pft. pass. tense

Whatever the the apostles forbade or permitted on earth, was to be what had already been forbidden or permitted in heaven. In other words, they had the authority to forbid or permit what had already been forbidden or permitted by the Lord, and only that.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Matt. 18:18 (NASB) Truly I say to you, whatever you [a]bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you [c]loose on earth [d]shall have been loosed in heaven.

a Matthew 18:18 I.e., forbid
b Matthew 18:18 Gr fut. pft. pass. tense
c Matthew 18:18 I.e., permit
d Matthew 18:18 Gr fut. pft. pass. tense

Whatever the the apostles forbade or permitted on earth, was to be what had already been forbidden or permitted in heaven. In other words, they had the authority to forbid or permit what had already been forbidden or permitted by the Lord, and only that.

The concept of "binding and loosing" is deeply rooted in Catholic teaching and Scripture. In Matthew 16:19, Jesus grants Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, stating, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This authority is also extended to the other apostles in Matthew 18:18. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains this further: 1. Jesus forgave sins and reintegrated forgiven sinners into the community (CCC 1443). 2. He imparted this power to forgive sins and reconcile sinners with the Church to his apostles (CCC 1444). 3. The terms "bind" and "loose" refer to excluding or receiving individuals into communion with the Church, which is inseparable from communion with God (CCC 1445). This authority underscores the Church's role in guiding the faithful and maintaining doctrinal integrity. [CA]


F.F. Bruce :
“Binding” and “loosing” were idiomatic expressions in rabbinical Judaism to denote the promulgation of rulings either forbidding or authorizing various kinds of activity. The authority to bind or loose given to Peter in the present context is given to the disciples as a body in Matthew 18:18, in a saying of Jesus similarly preserved by this evangelist only. Again, the record of Acts provides an illustration. Where church discipline is in view, Peter’s verbal rebuke of Ananias and Sapphira received drastic ratification from heaven (Acts 5:1-11).

 

[atpollard]

Matt. 18:18 (NASB) Truly I say to you, whatever you [a]bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you [c]loose on earth [d]shall have been loosed in heaven.

a Matthew 18:18 I.e., forbid
b Matthew 18:18 Gr fut. pft. pass. tense
c Matthew 18:18 I.e., permit
d Matthew 18:18 Gr fut. pft. pass. tense

Whatever the the apostles forbade or permitted on earth, was to be what had already been forbidden or permitted in heaven. In other words, they had the authority to forbid or permit what had already been forbidden or permitted by the Lord, and only that.

The concept of "binding and loosing" is deeply rooted in Catholic teaching and Scripture. In Matthew 16:19, Jesus grants Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, stating, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This authority is also extended to the other apostles in Matthew 18:18. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains this further: 1. Jesus forgave sins and reintegrated forgiven sinners into the community (CCC 1443). 2. He imparted this power to forgive sins and reconcile sinners with the Church to his apostles (CCC 1444). 3. The terms "bind" and "loose" refer to excluding or receiving individuals into communion with the Church, which is inseparable from communion with God (CCC 1445). This authority underscores the Church's role in guiding the faithful and maintaining doctrinal integrity. [CA]


F.F. Bruce :
“Binding” and “loosing” were idiomatic expressions in rabbinical Judaism to denote the promulgation of rulings either forbidding or authorizing various kinds of activity. The authority to bind or loose given to Peter in the present context is given to the disciples as a body in Matthew 18:18, in a saying of Jesus similarly preserved by this evangelist only. Again, the record of Acts provides an illustration. Where church discipline is in view, Peter’s verbal rebuke of Ananias and Sapphira received drastic ratification from heaven (Acts 5:1-11).

WOOSH .... It went right past him with no more impact than shining a flashlight at a blind man.

 

[Mr GLee]

The concept of "binding and loosing" is deeply rooted in Catholic teaching and Scripture. In Matthew 16:19, Jesus grants Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, stating, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This authority is also extended to the other apostles in Matthew 18:18. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains this further:

There is more than one verse in Chapter 16 nd 18 it takes context

The Chapter 18 verse is in respect to all that the Spirit binds on earth having been loosed from Heaven. If it applied to flesh and blood Peter it represent all born again believer . Cant take one clear misinterpretation and build the church on flesh and blood Peter as if he was our Holy Father .

Call no flesh and blood man earth Holy Father, Holy See ,Our Holiness , Prince apostle of Rome etc.

Mathew 16:15 He said to them, But who do you [yourselves] say that I am?

Simon Peter replied, You are the Christ, (not I am the Christ) he Son of the living God.

Mathew 16:Then Jesus answered him, Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are you, Simon Bar-Jonah. For flesh and blood men have not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven. (Not Rome)

18 And I tell you, you are [e]Peter [Greek, Petros—a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra—ahuge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church,( not Peter church) and the gates of Hades (the powers of the [infernal region) shall not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it]. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth must be what is already loosed in heaven. Then He sternly and strictly charged and warned the disciples to tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ. From that time forth Jesus began [clearly] to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders and the high priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised from death.

Satan giving the key to Peter needed to rebuke our Holy Father and forbid the Son of man. Jesus . .Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of Man Jesus .Blasphemy against he one Holy Father in heaven no forgiveness

Mathew 6: 22-23 Then Peter took Him aside to speak to Him privately and began to reprove and charge Him sharply, saying, God forbid, Lord! This must never happen to You! But Jesus turned [n]away from Peter and said to him, Get behind Me, Satan! You are in My way [an offense and a hindrance and a snare to Me for you are minding what partakes not of the nature and quality of God, but of men.. . (.Peter)

What is the object lesson of chapter 16 or will you continue to ignore sola scriptura????

 

[David1701]

The concept of "binding and loosing" is deeply rooted in Catholic teaching and Scripture. In Matthew 16:19, Jesus grants Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, stating, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This authority is also extended to the other apostles in Matthew 18:18. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains this further: 1. Jesus forgave sins and reintegrated forgiven sinners into the community (CCC 1443). 2. He imparted this power to forgive sins and reconcile sinners with the Church to his apostles (CCC 1444). 3. The terms "bind" and "loose" refer to excluding or receiving individuals into communion with the Church, which is inseparable from communion with God (CCC 1445). This authority underscores the Church's role in guiding the faithful and maintaining doctrinal integrity. [CA]


F.F. Bruce :
“Binding” and “loosing” were idiomatic expressions in rabbinical Judaism to denote the promulgation of rulings either forbidding or authorizing various kinds of activity. The authority to bind or loose given to Peter in the present context is given to the disciples as a body in Matthew 18:18, in a saying of Jesus similarly preserved by this evangelist only. Again, the record of Acts provides an illustration. Where church discipline is in view, Peter’s verbal rebuke of Ananias and Sapphira received drastic ratification from heaven (Acts 5:1-11).

The important point, missing from your post, is that the apostles only had authority to forbid or authorise what had already been forbidden or authorised in heaven. The situation with Ananias and Sapphira is an example of the Holy Spirit leading Peter to rebuke them and pronounce God's judgment.

Even the Lord himself, during his earthly ministry, only ever did what his Father showed him to do. He is our example.

 

[Arch Stanton]

WOOSH .... It went right past him

Tell that to Bruce

 

[Arch Stanton]

The important point, missing from your post, is that the apostles only had authority to forbid or authorise what had already been forbidden or authorised in heaven. The situation with Ananias and Sapphira is an example of the Holy Spirit leading Peter to rebuke them and pronounce God's judgment.

Even the Lord himself, during his earthly ministry, only ever did what his Father showed him to do. He is our example.

Acts 15

 

[Mr GLee]

WOOSH .... It went right past him with no more impact than shining a flashlight at a blind man.

I would offer that's one interpretation . The other this time addressing whoever has ears all the disciples..

Mathew 18: 18 AMPC Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven.

Peter experienced a lying sign to wonder the voice of Satan. Peter rebuked Christ the head, our Lord and forbid the Son of man Jesus from doing the will of the father He was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus.

The verse below that Satan turned upside down. . inspired from earth and not like rain from heaven

Mathew 18:18 And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the lying signs to wonder after shall not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth must be what is already loosed in heaven.

Mathew 16:22-23 Then Peter took Him aside to speak to Him privately and began to reprove and [m]charge Him sharply, saying, God forbid, Lord! This must never happen to You! But Jesus turned away from Peter and said to him, Get behind Me, Satan! You are in My way [an offense and a hindrance and a snare to Me; for you are minding what partakes not of the nature and quality of God, but of men.

What do you think was the object lesson to that discourse ? Call men on earth Holy Father, Holy See, etc ?

Peter as it seems must of thought when the father the invisible head Christ said to him "flesh and blood" has not reveled it. the power of God But rather Peter you are the flesh and blood father pass it on as succession a oral tradition of dying mankind

Context matters

 

[David1701]

Acts 15

Deut. 6

See, we can all post random scripture references.

What is your point?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Deut. 6

See, we can all post random scripture references.

What is your point?

Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved....some of the others should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and presbyters about this question....After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

 

[Eleanor]

Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved....some of the others should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and presbyters about this question....After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

"When they finished James spoke up: 'Brothers. . .It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write them. . .'
Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them. . ." (Ac 15:13, 19-20, 22).

 

[David1701]

"When they finished James spoke up: 'Brothers. . .It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write them. . .'
Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them. . ." (Ac 15:13, 19-20, 22).

You beat me to it.

 

[David1701]

Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved....some of the others should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and presbyters about this question....After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

See Eleanor's answer. It's roughly what I would have posted, if she hadn't got her reply in first.

 

[Arch Stanton]

"When they finished James spoke up: 'Brothers. . .It is my judgment, therefore,

as the local bishop that is what James would do....

*Have you not read St. Paul's letter to the Galatians in context???????

Acts 9:31-32 The CHURCH THROUGHOUT all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria was at peace. It was being built up and walked in the fear of the Lord, and with the consolation of the holy Spirit it grew in numbers.

As PETER was passing THROUGH EVERY REGION, he went down to the holy ones living in Lydda.

Acts 2:14-40 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice, and proclaimed to them, “You who are Jews, indeed all of you staying in Jerusalem. Let this be known to you, and listen to my words….

Mt 10:2-4 The names of the twelve apostles are these: FIRST, Simon called Peter, and his brother Andrew; James,...