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Luther tried

According to you....
Never said any such thing.
, we are all the same... What makes Luther any different than me or my neighbor?

won't read the rest due to your insistence on the red herring
That's fine by me because Post 100 is another red herring.


I invite you to post about Luther and his allegiance to the RCC and his submissive letter to the Pope.

"I confess that there is nothing in heaven or earth that should be preferred above that Church, save only Jesus Christ the Lord of all."[/indent


Luther tried. Whether acknowledged or not, everything else is a diversion.​
 
It is though... who is Luther to reform the Church?
No one.

Another red herring. Luther had tried to get the Church leaders to reform the misguided doctrines and practices but was unsuccessful in getting them to take responsibility for their own actions. The 95 Theses was a public appeal for self-examination and self-reform by the RCC, not an assumption on His part he had any authority or power to reform the Church. The point of the op is that Luther expressly did not want to be in opposition to the Pope or the Church, nor did he wish to leave.

One more red herring.
 
Never said any such thing.

That's fine by me because Post 100 is another red herring.
I knew you wouldn't touch authority.... the crux of it Josheb 🕵️‍♂️
 
Who was Moses to go and free the Hebrew slaves?
Ex 3:10 "Come, I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring my people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt."
 
Those are gifts, to his church, not hierarchical rankings.
They are the gifts that organize and administer rule in and through the Body of Christ on the earth today.
Though it serves the purpose of order in the meetings and oversight it is not governmental.
“Order and oversight” are elements of administration and rule…they are actually 2 of the functions of governance…anyways…so did you say that the graces…gifts…that the Lord gave to His body at His ascension are not elements that He works through to administrate and rule in His house…the temple of God here on earth?

Surely you realize that a “theocracy” which is ruled by a supreme authority…in this case it is ”Yahshua” in the role and function of the “Royal Priest (hood)?” The “Royal Priest” is both the “High Priest” of the temple order…and the Kingdoms reigning King…in this case the King of kings.

This is the form of governance and government in the Kingdom of God on earth and in heaven…with the Lord as the "source of all authority"…He is the “Royal Priest”…right? He is the source of “all authority in heaven and on earth” and He delegates it as He so desires via His Holy Spirit.

He delegates His authority as He so desires…that can be read all throughout the Scriptures…if one were to miss that…I can understand a perspective like yours.

Speaking of those 5 graces…apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, teacher…they are His "delegated authority"…each one having a "servants" role in the house of God that serves for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. (Ephesians 4:12-16 NASB)

In reality…those gifts/graces…love lead and train the sons of God unto a full maturity. They rule and administer uniquely according to their call and delegated authority…the “order and oversight” of the family of God (much more than meetings) as the house/temple of God on earth…is an act of administration and organization of the Body of Christ...and thereby is seen as a divinely authorized governmental order.

Semantics perhaps...sure...whatever...believe as you wish Arial.

Tatwo...:)
 
What page of the Bible shall I turn to? ;)🧐:sneaky:
Ephesians 2:10 (page numbers differ) ... Luther was a PRIEST, ordained by the RCC and faithfully serving it. Studying God's word when he discovered - like the OT scribe - that the People of God had been violating the Commands of God. Like the OT scribe, Luther immediately notified the King who notified the High Priest (Luther's Bishop and Pope Leo, in this case) expecting them to correct this sinful oversight against God. They chose GREED over God and continued to fill coffers with coins using sinful practices that the Catholic Church ultimately condemned after Luther was dead and the European Body of Christ irrevocably divided into Scripture-first Protestants and Pope-first Catholics.

The question is "Why did ROME refuse to repent of her sin until it was too late to save a united Church?" The REFORM that came after is death was what Luther wanted for the Church he loved. I can only see 'The Hand of God' in the timing.

Proverbs 19:21 [NKJV] "There are many plans in a man's heart, Nevertheless the LORD's counsel--that will stand."
  • (That means "we can want" but "God's choice will happen" ... just like Luther.)
 
The question is "Why did ROME refuse to repent of her sin until it was too late to save a united Church?" The REFORM that came after is death was what Luther wanted for the Church he loved. I can only see 'The Hand of God' in the timing.
Luther was against the Mass, papal authority, etc.

He was given ample opportunity to recant.

He did not.

The Revolt began....
 
The question is "Why did ROME refuse to repent of her sin until it was too late to save a united Church?"
Luther was against the Mass, papal authority, etc.

He was given ample opportunity to recant.

He did not.

The Revolt began....
That does not answer the question you quoted. (non-sequitur)

Why did the RCC condemn the selling of indulgences AFTER the "revolt" but condemn Luther for condemning the selling of indulgences BEFORE the "revolt"?
 
I agree ... and hubris. However, as a Catholic, I expected you to offer a defense of Rome rather than agree with Luther and the Reformers. ;)
 
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