Luther tried

[Arch Stanton]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it

punctuation much?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Reading comprehension

You have no authority to tell anyone if they are part of the body of Christ.... none

 

[donadams]

Do you want me to send the verses??

I went thru catholic school too and don’t remember what your mother was doing, problem not what you ranting since the council of trent as you say correct it

I do remember collecting money the rice bowl project to help feed the starving

And the priests and nuns made very little money especially compared the millions the tv evangelists drag in every year without following the gospel Matt 19:29

My father said as long as our family was registered in the parish and making a weekly donation there was no charge for sending 6 kids thru 8 grades of Catholic school only lunch money required and oh my I remember our cafeteria had the best food especially the salisbury steak, but if course fish on fridays! Lol!

 

[David1701]

what you wrote earlier

So, you don't agree with anything in the post of mine to which you replied (I asked for specifics). Here it is again.

"The Bible, in A.D. 42, consisted of the OT books, along with the orally transmitted teachings of Jesus and the apostles.

Church leaders (pastor/teachers, elders and deacons) are to lead by example, not diktat. The only things they are allowed to declare as commands are the things commanded in the Bible."

1) You don't agree that the Bible, in A.D. 42 consisted of the OT books

2) You don't agree that, in A.D. 42, the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles were also regarded as the inspired words of God.

3) You don't agree that church leaders are pastor/teachers, elders and deacons

4) You don't agree that leaders are to lead by example

5) You don't agree that they are not to lead by diktat

6) You don't agree that the only commands they are allowed to declare are the things now commanded in the Bible

Of course, if your answer was incorrect, and you would like to narrow your area of disagreement, I'm open to a mea culpa.

 

[David1701]

punctuation much?

Sentences start with a capital letter; they also contain at least one verb; and more information is required, to clarify the meaning of your non-sentence.

People in glass houses...

 

[Carbon]

So, you don't agree with anything in the post of mine to which you replied (I asked for specifics). Here it is again.

"The Bible, in A.D. 42, consisted of the OT books, along with the orally transmitted teachings of Jesus and the apostles.

Church leaders (pastor/teachers, elders and deacons) are to lead by example, not diktat. The only things they are allowed to declare as commands are the things commanded in the Bible."

1) You don't agree that the Bible, in A.D. 42 consisted of the OT books

2) You don't agree that, in A.D. 42, the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles were also regarded as the inspired words of God.

3) You don't agree that church leaders are pastor/teachers, elders and deacons

4) You don't agree that leaders are to lead by example

5) You don't agree that they are not to lead by diktat

6) You don't agree that the only commands they are allowed to declare are the things now commanded in the Bible

Of course, if your answer was incorrect, and you would like to narrow your area of disagreement, I'm open to a mea culpa.

I think Arch is being a little shy. That's what happens when one is on their way to becoming reformed.

 

[Arch Stanton]

"The Bible, in A.D. 42, consisted of the OT books, along with the orally transmitted teachings of Jesus and the apostles.

and the authority of those apostles.... then the next generation through the laying on of hands

Church leaders (pastor/teachers, elders and deacons) are to lead by example, not diktat.

obey those that have rule over you

 

[Arch Stanton]

Sentences start with a capital letter

excellent work David

; they also contain at least one verb; and more information is required, to clarify the meaning of your non-sentence.

People in glass houses...

i was making a point david

 

[David1701]

I think Arch is being a little shy. That's what happens when one is on their way to becoming reformed.

Hmm...

I think that bear baiting is illegal (at least in Britain).

 

[David1701]

excellent work David

i was making a point david

You committed more egregious solecisms in your post than the one you castigated. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy.

You also do not seem to have learned your lessons about grammar...

 

[Arch Stanton]

You committed more egregious solecisms in your post than the one you castigated.

no, that one edited the post david

 

[David1701]

no, that one edited the post david

Perhaps you would translate your post into intelligible English, preferably without the solecisms, so that we can all know what you tried to say?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Perhaps you would translate your post into intelligible English, preferably without the solecisms, so that we can all know what you tried to say?

Peter and the other apostles had the authority. Then, through the laying on of hands, the next generation became bishops. [Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, etc.]

 

[David1701]

and the authority of those apostles.... then the next generation through the laying on of hands

obey those that have rule over you

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible, to indicate that the apostles passed on apostolic authority to anyone!

The verses with "...obey them that have the rule over you..." are mistranslated, in old versions. It should be something like "... comply with your leaders...". Obedience to them would only be in the sense of obeying what they tell you from the Bible (e.g. love your enemies, or show partiality to no-one).

 

[Carbon]

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible, to indicate that the apostles passed on apostolic authority to anyone!

That's right. Nothing, zilch!

 

[Arch Stanton]

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible, to indicate that the apostles passed on apostolic authority to anyone!

Authority from the apostles does not make them apostles.... some became bishops though, David.

2 Tim 2:2 And what you heard from me through many witnesses ENTRUST to faithful people who will have the ability to TEACH OTHERS as well.

Acts 6:5-6 The proposal was acceptable to the whole community, so they chose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the holy Spirit, also Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas of Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and LAID HANDS ON THEM.

Acts 13:1-3 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Symeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who was a close friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they LAID HANDS ON THEM and sent them off.

1 Tim 5:22 Do not LAY HANDS too readily on anyone, and do not share in another’s sins. Keep yourself pure.

1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was CONFERRED on you through the prophetic word with the IMPOSITION OF HANDS of the PRESBYTERATE.

2 Tim 1:6 For this reason, I remind you to stir into flame the gift of God that you have THROUGH THE IMPOSITION OF MY HANDS.

Ti 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and APPOINT PRESBYTERS in every town, as I directed you,

Acts 14:21-23 After they had proclaimed the good news to that city and made a considerable number of disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch. They strengthened the spirits of the disciples and exhorted them to persevere in the faith, saying, “It is necessary for us to undergo many hardships to enter the kingdom of God.” They APPOINTED PRESBYTERS for them IN EACH CHURCH and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.

 

[David1701]

Authority from the apostles does not make them apostles.... some became bishops though, David.

2 Tim 2:2 And what you heard from me through many witnesses ENTRUST to faithful people who will have the ability to TEACH OTHERS as well.

Acts 6:5-6 The proposal was acceptable to the whole community, so they chose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the holy Spirit, also Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas of Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and LAID HANDS ON THEM.

Acts 13:1-3 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Symeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who was a close friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they LAID HANDS ON THEM and sent them off.

1 Tim 5:22 Do not LAY HANDS too readily on anyone, and do not share in another’s sins. Keep yourself pure.

1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was CONFERRED on you through the prophetic word with the IMPOSITION OF HANDS of the PRESBYTERATE.

2 Tim 1:6 For this reason, I remind you to stir into flame the gift of God that you have THROUGH THE IMPOSITION OF MY HANDS.

Ti 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and APPOINT PRESBYTERS in every town, as I directed you,

Acts 14:21-23 After they had proclaimed the good news to that city and made a considerable number of disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch. They strengthened the spirits of the disciples and exhorted them to persevere in the faith, saying, “It is necessary for us to undergo many hardships to enter the kingdom of God.” They APPOINTED PRESBYTERS for them IN EACH CHURCH and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.

2 Tim. 2:2 is about entrusting apostolic doctrine to people with an existing, God-given gift for teaching.

Acts 6:5,6 is about appointing deacons (people to serve in practical matters, e.g. serving tables (waiters). We also need to notice that it was the multitude of disciples who chose them, not the apostles.

Acts 13:1-3 - in this passage it was prophets and teachers who laid hands on Barnabas and Saul.

Authority from the apostles does not make them apostles.... some became bishops though, David.

2 Tim 2:2 And what you heard from me through many witnesses ENTRUST to faithful people who will have the ability to TEACH OTHERS as well.

Acts 6:5-6 The proposal was acceptable to the whole community, so they chose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the holy Spirit, also Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas of Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and LAID HANDS ON THEM.

Acts 13:1-3 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Symeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who was a close friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they LAID HANDS ON THEM and sent them off.

1 Tim 5:22 Do not LAY HANDS too readily on anyone, and do not share in another’s sins. Keep yourself pure.

1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was CONFERRED on you through the prophetic word with the IMPOSITION OF HANDS of the PRESBYTERATE.

2 Tim 1:6 For this reason, I remind you to stir into flame the gift of God that you have THROUGH THE IMPOSITION OF MY HANDS.

Ti 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and APPOINT PRESBYTERS in every town, as I directed you,

Acts 14:21-23 After they had proclaimed the good news to that city and made a considerable number of disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch. They strengthened the spirits of the disciples and exhorted them to persevere in the faith, saying, “It is necessary for us to undergo many hardships to enter the kingdom of God.” They APPOINTED PRESBYTERS for them IN EACH CHURCH and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.

<sigh>
These verses are about various different situations; so, please indicate what you intend to show by quoting them.

I know that the laying on of hands is scriptural, in a variety of scenarios, and that it's not only done by leaders.

 

[Carbon]

and risk my salvation? Oh my!!!!

What, you dont agree with Augustine on the perseverance of the saints?

 

[Josheb]

There's no charge.

Thanks. What about the plastic? Is this gonna be messy? I'm thinking of that comedian with the hammer where everyone in the first three rows brought plastic. Could be like that scene in Lethal Weapon 2 where the guy walks into the room where the floor's covered in plastic and... well, you know . Plastic, or no plastic?

 

[Arial]

and risk my salvation? Oh my!!!!

And there we have it! Fear. Keep the people bound to obedience to whatever you say by brainwashing them into believing if they leave they will burn in the lake of fire. It is the number one tact of cults and cultish organizations. That is why it is so difficult to get through to them. I could cry a bucket of tears over it.

You do realize Arch, that you have just admitted that your faith and trust is not in Jesus where it needs to be, but in the RCC and its hierarchy and traditions? Is that biblical?