Luther tried

[Arch Stanton]

No, dont think so. When you're controlled with fear, not usually. Some are just more deceived than others.

I don't fear The Church though. I truly love what Christ gave us.

 

[donadams]

Luther tried to reform the Church. It was not his intention to leave the Church at first, but to Reform her.

Luther wrote to the pope.

"Most holy father, - may your holiness condescend to incline your paternal ear, which is that of Christ himself, toward your poor sheep, and listen with kindness to this bleating. What shall I do, most holy father! I cannot stand against the torrent of your anger, and I know no way of escape. They require of me that I should retract. I would be prompt to do so, if that could lead to the result they desire. But the persecutions of my enemies have spread my writing far and wide, and they are to deeply engraven on the hearts of men to be by possibility erased. A retraction would only still more dishonor the Church of Rome, and call forth from all a cry of accusation against her. Most holy father, I declare it in the presence of God, and of all the world, I never have sought, nor will I ever seek, to weaken, by force or artifice, the power of the Roman Church or of your Holiness. I confess that there is nothing in heaven or earth that should be preferred above that Church, save only Jesus Christ the Lord of all."

Luther really loved the Church of Rome and its pope. He had no intentions of destroying the Church. However, if we faith to keep in mind that the Holy Spirit opened Luther's eyes, not suddenly, but, by slow and progressive degrees.

They are evidenced of the important truth, that the Reformation was not a mere opposition to the Papacy. It wasn't war waged against a certain form or condition of things, nor was it the result of any negative tendencies.
Opposition to the pope was its secondary sign. A new life, a positive doctrine, was its generation principle - "Jesus Christ the Lord of all, and who should be preferred before all." And above Rome herself, as Luther intimates in the latter words of his letter. Such was essentially the cause of the Revolution of the 16th century.

Where does scripture say the “holy spirit opened luther’s mind”?

If he loved the church He would have privately taken his concerns to his bishop or superior?

If he loved the pope as his father he would have obeyed him?

 

[donadams]

If he loved the church he would submit and obey and uphold its decree’s in the glorious apostolic council of TRENT!

 

[Carbon]

Where does scripture say the “holy spirit opened luther’s mind”?

Thats not one road you want to travel don.

 

[donadams]

Thats not one road you want to travel don.

I searched “luther” in bible gateway and got nada! Zip zilch! Nothing!

 

[Carbon]

I searched “luther” in bible gateway and got nada! Zip zilch! Nothing!

haha Really? Duh

 

[atpollard]

If he loved the church He would have privately taken his concerns to his bishop or superior?

If he loved the pope as his father he would have obeyed him?

If he loved the church he would submit and obey and uphold its decree’s in the glorious apostolic council of TRENT!

He tried:

On 31 October 1517, Luther wrote to his bishop, Albrecht von Brandenburg, protesting against the sale of indulgences. He enclosed in his letter a copy of his "Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences",[a] which came to be known as the Ninety-five Theses. Hans Hillerbrand writes that Luther had no intention of confronting the church but saw his disputation as a scholarly objection to church practices, and the tone of the writing is accordingly "searching, rather than doctrinaire."[49] Hillerbrand writes that there is nevertheless an undercurrent of challenge in several of the theses, particularly in Thesis 86, which asks: "Why does the pope, whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build the basilica of St. Peter with the money of poor believers rather than with his own money?"[49]​

​

Luther objected to a saying attributed to Tetzel that, "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory (also attested as 'into heaven') springs."[50] He insisted that, since forgiveness was God's alone to grant, those who claimed that indulgences absolved buyers from all punishments and granted them salvation were in error. Christians, he said, must not slacken in following Christ on account of such false assurances.​

-wikipedia​

​

His Bishop ignored the private concerns.
The Pope rejected the Biblical Text and continued the errors until the Council of Trent (1545-1563) condemned some of the same sins Luther had condemned, while fully embracing other sins.

Unfortunately, Luther died 18 February 1546 (aged 62) ... so he did not live to see the Council discuss his concerns 46 years after he raised them and 43 years after Luther was excommunicated with orders to kill him on sight.

 

[David1701]

(Josh pulls up chair to watch David at work in his area of strength) Should I grab some plastic?

There's no charge.

 

[David1701]

That is a false premise. The Bible does not tell you that.

What, specifically, do you claim that the Bible does not tell us?

 

[Arch Stanton]

What, specifically, do you claim that the Bible does not tell us?

what you wrote earlier

 

[donadams]

He tried:

On 31 October 1517, Luther wrote to his bishop, Albrecht von Brandenburg, protesting against the sale of indulgences. He enclosed in his letter a copy of his "Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences",[a] which came to be known as the Ninety-five Theses. Hans Hillerbrand writes that Luther had no intention of confronting the church but saw his disputation as a scholarly objection to church practices, and the tone of the writing is accordingly "searching, rather than doctrinaire."[49] Hillerbrand writes that there is nevertheless an undercurrent of challenge in several of the theses, particularly in Thesis 86, which asks: "Why does the pope, whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build the basilica of St. Peter with the money of poor believers rather than with his own money?"[49]​

​

Luther objected to a saying attributed to Tetzel that, "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory (also attested as 'into heaven') springs."[50] He insisted that, since forgiveness was God's alone to grant, those who claimed that indulgences absolved buyers from all punishments and granted them salvation were in error. Christians, he said, must not slacken in following Christ on account of such false assurances.​

-wikipedia​

​

His Bishop ignored the private concerns.
The Pope rejected the Biblical Text and continued the errors until the Council of Trent (1545-1563) condemned some of the same sins Luther had condemned, while fully embracing other sins.

Unfortunately, Luther died 18 February 1546 (aged 62) ... so he did not live to see the Council discuss his concerns 46 years after he raised them and 43 years after Luther was excommunicated with orders to kill him on sight.

Indulgences were not sold
Indulgences have nothing to do with salvation!

 

[atpollard]

Indulgences were not sold

Of course they were ... the scandal precipitated the Protestant Reformation and the Catholic Counter-Reformation. It made all the papers in the 15th and 16th Century!

Indulgences have nothing to do with salvation!

I agree ... they have to do with filling the coffers of corrupt clergymen in the 15th Century and the false doctrine of Purgatory.
Sadly, it is still alive and well as my mother paid the RCC to shorten her parents time in purgatory up to her death ... always to meet the Bishop's fundraising goal. So my axe to grind with Rome is very personal, from the nuns that taught her to fear God and pray to Mary, to the priests that collected pennies from widows with stories of shortening time under God's punishment. DAMN your heresy! That is NOT what scripture teaches! That is not what Jesus promised!

I am trapped between a rock and a hard place. My heart aches for your people as strongly as my anger burns for your APOSTATE CHURCH.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I am trapped between a rock and a hard place. My heart aches for your people as strongly as my anger burns for your APOSTATE CHURCH.

We are the body of Christ....

 

[donadams]

Donations are not sales!

Indulgences have to do with the punishment due to sin after baptism

And there are hundreds of indulgences and many ways to obtain them

The souls being purified in purgatory are all saved, thats shy they are called “holy souls” and as they cannot pray for themselves they are powerful in praying for us!

Fundamentalism has blinded you to the truth

Thks

 

[atpollard]

We are the body of Christ....

No, you are not.

YOU (as an individual) may or may not be part of His body ... that is God's to decide as He is the agent in Ephesians 2:1-10 that makes salvation both POSSIBLE and REALITY ... but the "Church hierarchy" with its human head in Rome and its human doctrines contrary to God's Word and its mythology about imaginary successions and usurped authority, is NOT the body of Christ.

 

[Arch Stanton]

No, you are not.

Like telling Babe Ruth he never played for the Yankees.

 

[atpollard]

Donations are not sales!

Indulgences have to do with the punishment due to sin after baptism

And there are hundreds of indulgences and many ways to obtain them

The souls being purified in purgatory are all saved, thats shy they are called “holy souls” and as they cannot pray for themselves they are powerful in praying for us!

Fundamentalism has blinded you to the truth

Thks

That is like when Rome claimed they were under no obligation to recant ... they could always choose to burn as heretics like Huss!
Hypocritical dishonesty supporting doctrines that God never taught.

Sola Scriptura (the Word of God is the ONLY "norma normans non normata")
Read HIS Word and learn THE Truth.

 

[atpollard]

Like telling Babe Ruth he never played for the Yankees.

Like telling the Mississippi Yankees (Madison, MS) Youth Baseball that they are not a Professional Baseball Team, no matter what their pamphlet says.

 

[donadams]

The sign of the cross!

 

[donadams]

That is like when Rome claimed they were under no obligation to recant ... they could always choose to burn as heretics like Huss!
Hypocritical dishonesty supporting doctrines that God never taught.

Sola Scriptura (the Word of God is the ONLY "norma normans non normata")
Read HIS Word and learn THE Truth.

The punishment of criminals is biblical!