Justification

[EarlyActs]

Is Acts 26 “theology” or a historic train wreck finally tumbling to a stop?

A: is is both. Your definition of things lacks the human reality.

 

[Ladodgers6]

In Galatians especially there is a historic transition going on in which the old system is being shed. I don’t know why that would hard to see, why it is hard to see the full version in Acts, or why you can’t see it behind Rom 9-10.

But you cant see any of it. You are spending too much time in the abstract.

If you understood you would at least complement the clarity it brings.

Honestly I don't need your approval or judgement. I know what I believe and why I believe it. My suggestion to you is do more homework and research. I tried to share Classical Covenant Theology that is taught in Scripture; by concept and historical aspects. God's word is Christology; Christ centered. This was Paul central message. He considers everything else as dung, and believes in Christ and him crucified. The Law does not bring life but death. When Saul was finally revealed this truth by Christ and taught the Gospel from Christ himself. He finally understood the Promise of God in Christ.

I'll ask you again, have you read Meredith Kline-Kingdom Prologue or Geerhardus Vos-Epistle on Hebrews?

So with this I bid you a farewell. I pray that someday you will understand the Covenant of Redemption. Because God has a preordain plan to save his people from their sins.

I am curious to know something, your thoughts on God making Gentiles part of his Covenantal family? And it was not based on anything they did, possessed, or will do. But by the sheer Grace and Mercy of God Alone!

 

[EarlyActs]

Honestly I don't need your approval or judgement. I know what I believe and why I believe it. My suggestion to you is do more homework and research. I tried to share Classical Covenant Theology that is taught in Scripture; by concept and historical aspects. God's word is Christology; Christ centered. This was Paul central message. He considers everything else as dung, and believes in Christ and him crucified. The Law does not bring life but death. When Saul was finally revealed this truth by Christ and taught the Gospel from Christ himself. He finally understood the Promise of God in Christ.

I'll ask you again, have you read Meredith Kline-Kingdom Prologue or Geerhardus Vos-Epistle on Hebrews?

So with this I bid you a farewell. I pray that someday you will understand the Covenant of Redemption. Because God has a preordain plan to save his people from their sins.

I am curious to know something, your thoughts on God making Gentiles part of his Covenantal family? And it was not based on anything they did, possessed, or will do. But by the sheer Grace and Mercy of God Alone!

How about not going to a theology first and just interpret a passage. You have not mentioned one detail from 9B-10A yet even though I pasted it here. As we both know, it is dangerous to drift wide of a text and go by memory.

As far as I can tell you have no sense of history, likely due to the 400 silent years scheme.

 

[EarlyActs]

I am very familiar with Law and Gospel etc. I know the arrangement with Adam is later called a covenant.

All that is fine but has nothing or little to do with Paul speaking to the modus operanDI of the 1st Cent Judaism zealots or how they ruined the country like Dan 9 and many lines in Luke said. It was the practical outcome of their mistaken theology. Paul describes it to undo it.

 

[Ladodgers6]

How about not going to a theology first and just interpret a passage. You have not mentioned one detail from 9B-10A yet even though I pasted it here. As we both know, it is dangerous to drift wide of a text and go by memory.

As far as I can tell you have no sense of history, likely due to the 400 silent years scheme.

LoL...sure. All you have is conjecture and false judgement. What is interpreting a passage? Is it not Theology? There are smarter minds in Christendom that I. And I have no problem or issue with that. Funny thing is, you accuse me of a lot things, but yet either refuse to or right out avoid my questions, why is that. If a person seeks the truth, then that should be the important thing.

You make an accusation that I did not mentioned one detail from Romans 9:24-10:4. Really? Are you really reading my posts to understand my position at all. Or are you allowing your bias lens to cloud it?

I keep telling that Romans 9:24-10:4 is about the Promised Seed, didn't I? You fail to see the organic teaching that Paul is pointing sinners to Christ! And through a remnant came the Promised Seed in an unfolding redemptive pre-ordain plan of God; the Covenant of Redemptive to save his people from their sins.

Here you go Romans 9:29 And as Isaiah predicted,​

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring (Seed),
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”
​

Didn't I tie together several passages with Romans 9-10? But you do not. You can't even explain your position, other than you are disgusted with the term "Theology", which is ironic because the study of God is Theology.

So question, what is Paul highlighting here? Man's ability or God's Grace?​

 

[Mr GLee]

LoL...sure. All you have is conjecture and false judgement. What is interpreting a passage? Is it not Theology? There are smarter minds in Christendom that I. And I have no problem or issue with that. Funny thing is, you accuse me of a lot things, but yet either refuse to or right out avoid my questions, why is that. If a person seeks the truth, then that should be the important thing.

The unseen Holy Spirit is the one interpret God will not share his teaching ministry with dying mankind ,he warns of those who would seduce us to believe we do need dying mankind to teach us.

One led by Satan came and bowed down to the Son of man, Jesus. . our brother in the lord . he seduce by the father of lies calls the Son of man Jesu the one good teaching master . Jesu then refused to stand in the place of a antichrist, the abomination of desolation and gave all the teaching authority to His Father God

Mark 10:16-18King James Version16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

How many good teaching masters do you say are God alone good? A legion of fathers as false apostles sent with false prophecy (oral traditions) kneeling down to dying mankind ?

I say one good master .

 

[EarlyActs]

LoL...sure. All you have is conjecture and false judgement. What is interpreting a passage? Is it not Theology? There are smarter minds in Christendom that I. And I have no problem or issue with that. Funny thing is, you accuse me of a lot things, but yet either refuse to or right out avoid my questions, why is that. If a person seeks the truth, then that should be the important thing.

You make an accusation that I did not mentioned one detail from Romans 9:24-10:4. Really? Are you really reading my posts to understand my position at all. Or are you allowing your bias lens to cloud it?

I keep telling that Romans 9:24-10:4 is about the Promised Seed, didn't I? You fail to see the organic teaching that Paul is pointing sinners to Christ! And through a remnant came the Promised Seed in an unfolding redemptive pre-ordain plan of God; the Covenant of Redemptive to save his people from their sins.

Here you go Romans 9:29 And as Isaiah predicted,​

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring (Seed),
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”
​

Didn't I tie together several passages with Romans 9-10? But you do not. You can't even explain your position, other than you are disgusted with the term "Theology", which is ironic because the study of God is Theology.

So question, what is Paul highlighting here? Man's ability or God's Grace?​

I explained that Paul was describing the historical fact that emerged in the IT called zeal for the Law. This was keeping the Torah to prevent a repeat destruction.

But this zeal was not based on truth; the time had come for Christ as fulfiller of righteousness to be a wonderful message to all nations. The failure to be missionaries, and to entrench at home to defend the country, cost them that country.

This is what 9B-10A is about, not issues about grace and law in the abstract senses of later theology. It actually matched and impacted the nation at the time., Acts26. “They serve God in the temple night and day, hoping to see the fulfillment.”

This is why the standard message to Israel was that the resurrection fulfilled the promises to the fathers. Acts 13, Rom 15. There was a message to take to the world, not an observance of Torah to complete which would impress Messiah enough to take up a reign from Jerusalem.

What else do you need to see , to realize you are not dealing with the historical issues actually in the passage?

Some people think it is way too messy for the main theologian Paul to speak to a historic development. Not.

 

[EarlyActs]

Q: would Galatians be better if Paul had never mentioned the social-historical circumstances going on there?

 

[EarlyActs]

Or additionally, the terms 1st cent. Judaism used (and wrongly switched) were Promise and Law, Gal 3:15+. Paul saw this as a replacement theology. It seems to me that we should be speaking of the categories Paul actually used, in the terms he used, so we don't confuse people. And guess what: Promise, Law, and zeal and righteousness (over in Rom 9-10) were all historical--names/handles for things that were going on in Judaism or for the Gospel (in Christ's case).

 

[Mr GLee]

I explained that Paul was describing the historical fact that emerged in the IT called zeal for the Law. This was keeping the Torah to prevent a repeat destruction.

But this zeal was not based on truth; the time had come for Christ as fulfiller of righteousness to be a wonderful message to all nations. The failure to be missionaries, and to entrench at home to defend the country, cost them that country.

I would think it is a false seal hoping the letter of the law "death" has no efect. Keeping the Torah and not the law of the Faithful Creator as a work of his faith or labor of love ."let there be" and it was "God alone good". The two laws the just and the justifier must be mixed to create one perfect or complete born again law . God alone is the just one . Thou shall have no legion of gods as oral tradition of dying mankind before me.

He poured out the water of His Spirit as the doctrine of God that fall like rain ,dew, mist, small rain, thunder showers and cause green growth. Pouring out His Spirit as if it was blood on dying mankind giving his Spirit life in jeopardy of His own . He is the storeroom of faith /power. He gives us little faith the golden measure.

A beautiful parable that helps us understand what the parables means to drink the blood eat the flesh of mankind . One parable John 6 explained by another 2 Samuel 23:14-17 .

Surely not to think we can drink literal blood . It must be poured out at the base so it can return to lifeless dust. A living sacrifice showing spiritual life was given. No dead sacrifices The dead bury thier own idols

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

David imprisoned. The lord sent him famine for hearing the gospel and fulfilled it giving David a desire to hear the gospel to help strengthen.

The parable is filed with metaphors used in other examples like below .

Bethlehem (the city of bread eat flesh ) .Water of the well, the living water spoken of when Jesus spoke to the gentle woman by the well .the three apostles drew water to represent the doctrines of God which turned into blood . David poured it out so it could return to lifeless,spiritless dust David knew the demonstration was promised to the Son of man Jesus The Father sending three apostles three to indicate the end of the matter, pouring out the Father's Holy Spirit in jeopardy of His own. God the Holy Father of all spirit life

2 Samuel 23:14-17 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem. And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the Lord.And he said, Be it far from me, O Lord, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

Moved by the mighty power of God . a great gospel demonstration of the coming bloody savior

 

[EarlyActs]

I would think it is a false seal hoping the letter of the law "death" has no efect. Keeping the Torah and not the law of the Faithful Creator as a work of his faith or labor of love ."let there be" and it was "God alone good". The two laws the just and the justifier must be mixed to create one perfect or complete born again law . God alone is the just one . Thou shall have no legion of gods as oral tradition of dying mankind before me.

He poured out the water of His Spirit as the doctrine of God that fall like rain ,dew, mist, small rain, thunder showers and cause green growth. Pouring out His Spirit as if it was blood on dying mankind giving his Spirit life in jeopardy of His own . He is the storeroom of faith /power. He gives us little faith the golden measure.

A beautiful parable that helps us understand what the parables means to drink the blood eat the flesh of mankind . One parable John 6 explained by another 2 Samuel 23:14-17 .

Surely not to think we can drink literal blood . It must be poured out at the base so it can return to lifeless dust. A living sacrifice showing spiritual life was given. No dead sacrifices The dead bury thier own idols

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

David imprisoned. The lord sent him famine for hearing the gospel and fulfilled it giving David a desire to hear the gospel to help strengthen.

The parable is filed with metaphors used in other examples like below .

Bethlehem (the city of bread eat flesh ) .Water of the well, the living water spoken of when Jesus spoke to the gentle woman by the well .the three apostles drew water to represent the doctrines of God which turned into blood . David poured it out so it could return to lifeless,spiritless dust David knew the demonstration was promised to the Son of man Jesus The Father sending three apostles three to indicate the end of the matter, pouring out the Father's Holy Spirit in jeopardy of His own. God the Holy Father of all spirit life

2 Samuel 23:14-17 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem. And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the Lord.And he said, Be it far from me, O Lord, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

Moved by the mighty power of God . a great gospel demonstration of the coming bloody savior

The less you say, the more clear you are. I don't do confusing, meandering, pan-topical reading.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I explained that Paul was describing the historical fact that emerged in the IT called zeal for the Law. This was keeping the Torah to prevent a repeat destruction.

Aren't you missing a huge part here? The Law only highlights our sins, no matter how zealous one thinks they are. The Law imprisoned God's people until the the coming of faith would be revealed (Gal. 3:23). The Law keeps reminding God's People of the Promised Messiah that will come and redeem them from their sins. The Law also reminds why they need a Redeemer. The Law exposes our sine before God and strips us of all so-called righteousness, that are nothing but filthy rags. There is nothing a sinner can offer God. The only place for a sinner is at the Cross; the Mercy Seat, where God justifies the ungodly through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. This is what Paul was trying to explain to his countrymen of trying to fulfill the Law with works-righteousness. This is impossible for sinners to do. Only the curse remains for sinners under the Law. But they (Paul's countrymen) did not believe Paul. They seek to establish their own righteousness but not according to knowledge (the Gospel).​

But this zeal was not based on truth; the time had come for Christ as fulfiller of righteousness to be a wonderful message to all nations. The failure to be missionaries, and to entrench at home to defend the country, cost them that country.

This is what 9B-10A is about, not issues about grace and law in the abstract senses of later theology. It actually matched and impacted the nation at the time., Acts26. “They serve God in the temple night and day, hoping to see the fulfillment.”

This is why the standard message to Israel was that the resurrection fulfilled the promises to the fathers. Acts 13, Rom 15. There was a message to take to the world, not an observance of Torah to complete which would impress Messiah enough to take up a reign from Jerusalem.

What else do you need to see , to realize you are not dealing with the historical issues actually in the passage?

Some people think it is way too messy for the main theologian Paul to speak to a historic development. Not.

Christ is our righteousness, sanctification and redemption 1 Cor. 1:30

 

[Ladodgers6]

The unseen Holy Spirit is the one interpret God will not share his teaching ministry with dying mankind ,he warns of those who would seduce us to believe we do need dying mankind to teach us.

Thank God we have his word, right? To learn from and to understand God. But a lot of people hate theology; the study of God. They refuse to read it, study it, and learn from it. They suppress the truth in an exchange for a lie.

One led by Satan came and bowed down to the Son of man, Jesus. . our brother in the lord . he seduce by the father of lies calls the Son of man Jesu the one good teaching master . Jesu then refused to stand in the place of a antichrist, the abomination of desolation and gave all the teaching authority to His Father God

Mark 10:16-18King James Version16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

How many good teaching masters do you say are God alone good? A legion of fathers as false apostles sent with false prophecy (oral traditions) kneeling down to dying mankind ?

I say one good master .

And again, God's word, Scripture is Christology; Christ centered. It is about God in Christ incarnated in the flesh, born under the Law, fulfilled the Law, lived a perfectly righteous and obedient life, was crucified where he took our place and was tortured, punished, propitiates God's wrath, dies and is raised on the third day for our justification.

And the good news for sinners is that God justifies the ungodly in his Son through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. God's promise, which is a stumbling to the foolish.

 

[donadams]

How do you explain these verses

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Verses

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting thechurch; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Just curious

 

[Arial]

How do you explain these verses

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

I do not understand why you need this verse explained. It is straightforward. Neither the Mosaic Law or any Law is able to make a person perfectly righteous, and therefore justified before God. The problem is internal, not external. And no Law keeping will ever atone for the sins already committed, or solve the condition of being in Adam---a sinful being. The Law shows us what is sin and in that, condemns us. Does that mean the Law is bad? NO!. We are bad.

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting thechurch; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

This is about Paul. Righteousness in in the law (see above), but even keeping all the Law as Paul says, does not make one righteous. (see above.)

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Just curious

They kept the Law. (see above) Perhaps they even had faith along with that Law keeping, which is a matter of the heart. And if they had faith it is because God elected them to have faith and gave it to them.

 

[makesends]

How do you explain these verses

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Verses

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting thechurch; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Just curious

Of whom are you asking this?

 

[Arial]

Of whom are you asking this?

And also---why?

 

[makesends]

donadams said:
How do you explain these verses

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Verses

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting thechurch; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Just curious

makesends said:
Of whom are you asking this?

And also---why?

@donadams , I went back to ask this and I see @Arial beat me to the punch. What is your thinking, here? Do these verses disprove something someone is saying?

 

[donadams]

Of whom are you asking this?

Anyone

 

[donadams]

donadams said:
How do you explain these verses

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Verses

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting thechurch; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Just curious

makesends said:
Of whom are you asking this?

@donadams , I went back to ask this and I see @Arial beat me to the punch. What is your thinking, here? Do these verses disprove something someone is saying?

No just curious about His saying two things that appear to contradict