Justification by Faith Alone

[brightfame52]

Are you sure about that?

Yep I will see you, remember I told you so

 

[Eleanor]

Yep I will see you, remember I told you so

I'm thinkin' I'll have more glorious things on my mind. . .

 

[brightfame52]

I'm thinkin' I'll have more glorious things on my mind. . .

lol, we will see for sure

 

[Eleanor]

lol, we will see for sure

I'm hoping that you do. . .

Faith their is Christ. You in unbelief
BTW Im not alone with that understanding,
Matt Poole
Matthew Poole's Commentary
After that Christ, the object of saving faith, was in the fulness of time revealed, and the gospel, which is the doctrine of faith, was fully revealed and published, the time of our nonage was over.
John Gill
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
But after that faith is come,.... That is, since Christ the object of faith is come in the flesh, and has fulfilled the law, and redeemed them that were under it from its bondage, curse, and condemnation:
Same thing Gal 3:23 Faith is Christ the object of Faith
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
23. faith—namely, that just mentioned (Ga 3:22), of which Christ is the object.

There seems to be some confusion about parts of speech.

The "object" (Christ) receives the "action" (of believing).

"Christ is the object of faith" means that one's faith (belief)/trust is in/toward the person Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm hoping that you do. . .

There seems to be some confusion about parts of speech.

The "object" (Christ) receives the "action" (of believing).

"Christ is the object of faith" means that one's faith (belief)/trust is in/toward the person Christ.

See you at the Judgment

 

[Eleanor]

See you at the Judgment

Non-responsive. . .

And I'll be happy to forgive you again there.

 

[makesends]

To be Justified by Faith is another way of saying to be Justified by Christ. Christ/God does the Justifying alone. You are adding works

Where did @Hazelelponi add works? If we are justified by grace through faith, the faith is not of ourselves, but of grace. GOD-given. She did not say otherwise. We have no exercise of faith, that is not accomplished by GOD. We believe, because God did it to us, as I understand you too, to believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification an act of God's Grace !

Justification an act of God's Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

in that He Remits or does not impute the sins of the elect, the Church, His Sheep upon them and accepts them as Righteous :

Being treated as if righteous; that is, being regarded and treated as if they had kept the Law. Barnes Notes

Not in themselves are they considered Righteous, but in His Sight by Redemption through Christ and Imputed Righteousness, which however in time will be received by them by God given Faith from New Birth.

This Justification is Threefold, #1 Its in Eternity or from Eternity, in that Christ before the world began, was made a Surety for all those Chosen in Him, His Seed, He therefore by Surety pledge took their trespasses [to be committed in time] upon Himself.

The Surety principle is here stated Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Christ in this case engaged Himself before the foundation, to pay the debt incurred by His Friends unto God's Law and Justice. Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

We believe that this Testament is the one stated here Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant or testament,

We believe its mentioned here by the Apostle Paul 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The first occurrence of this non imputation was in Christ's Eternal Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant , where He pledged to shed His Blood for their law violations !

This was an Eternal Pledge with the Father, by which He did transfer the trespasses of His Own Elect from them to His Son, and Hence the Father did reckon the sins of His Chosen upon His Son from Eternity, and by this Eternal act, their sins against His Law were Eternally discharged against them, but not from their Surety. They the Elect Sons of God were His [ Christ their Surety] delight before the World was Created Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

According to this Suretyship of the blood of the Everlasting Covenant, Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation, yes even foreordained, this being reckoned upon in the Eternal Divine Counsels. The Father was always well pleased with His Son, even before the Cross occurred in time, and so even the OT Church of believers were Justified by it [His Blood] even before it was actually shed in time See Heb 7:22; Isa 53:6; 2 Cor 5:21 ; Eph 1:4; 2 Tim 1:9; Rev 13:8; 1 Pet 1:20 !

 

[Hazelelponi]

This Justification is Threefold

Yet your removing faith from the equation and calling people unsaved for believing what the Scripture says.

Faith isn't something that comes from man, so why are you so opposed to faith?

Faith comes through hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It's a capital W that has a written form too. What comes from God doesn't return void.

 

[brightfame52]

@Hazelelponi

Yet your removing faith from the equation and calling people unsaved for believing what the Scripture says.

Okay #1 I have always stated Faith has a role in Justification #2 I make it a point to never call anyone unsaved, I dont know anyone's eternal destiny. Can you please provide the post where I stated someone was unsaved ?

 

[brightfame52]

Where did @Hazelelponi add works? If we are justified by grace through faith, the faith is not of ourselves, but of grace. GOD-given. She did not say otherwise. We have no exercise of faith, that is not accomplished by GOD. We believe, because God did it to us, as I understand you too, to believe.

You should know what I believe by now, I have posted it 100s of times. I believe if anyone conditions Justification b4 God, on Faith, Believing etc or any act they do, either before or after regeneration, its works

Scripture teaches that Justification b4 God is solely on the Blood of Christ alone. Thats what I believe.

 

[Hazelelponi]

@Hazelelponi



Okay #1 I have always stated Faith has a role in Justification #2 I make it a point to never call anyone unsaved, I dont know anyone's eternal destiny. Can you please provide the post where I stated someone was unsaved ?

I'll see you on judgement day is what you said more than once and in more than one way in order to call her out without saying she's not a believer.

1.) people make those arguments when they are losing the debate itself and want to get an emotional reaction from the opponent because it's personally insulting.

Then once emotionally off balance the argument is easier to at least give the public appearance of winning because said opponent stops thinking with the rational brain.

You insulted @Eleanor "s standing before God and tried to cut her down as hard as you possibly could without breaking a rule.

Well you got your digs in. But it doesn't matter that you didn't say unsaved it's still the meaning behind your words.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Justification b4 God, on Faith, Believing etc or any act they do, either before or after regeneration, its works

Faith itself in a gift from God. Not self generated. Faith cannot be a work because it is itself a gift.

 

[brightfame52]

@Hazelelponi

I'll see you on judgement day is what you said more than once and in more than one way in order to call her out without saying she's not a believer.

Everyone is present on Judgment day, what are you talking about. Thats not judging anyone's eternal destiny.

Paul writing to Saints wrote,

Rom 14:10

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith itself in a gift from God. Not self generated. Faith cannot be a work because it is itself a gift.

Didnt I say it doesnt matter if its before or after regeneration ,if you deny Justification b4 God, not until you believe with, thats works. See Justification b4 God all it took was the Death of His Son for you. No Faith. No believing, however those things shall be given later for evidences.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Didnt I say it doesnt matter if its before or after regeneration ,if you deny Justification b4 God, not until you believe with, thats works. See Justification b4 God all it took was the Death of His Son for you. No Faith. No believing, however those things shall be given later for evidences.

If people die without having faith they're going to hell. If they don't believe in the person and work of Jesus Christ they're going to hell.

Faith is a requirement, that's why God gives us faith. He provides.

If you say zero human response your saying no human responsibility before God.

 

[brightfame52]

If people die without having faith they're going to hell. If they don't believe in the person and work of Jesus Christ they're going to hell.

Faith is a requirement, that's why God gives us faith. He provides.

If you say zero human response your saying no human responsibility before God.

Now what are you talking about ? If you condition Justification b4 God on a requirement, its works works works

 

[Eleanor]

Now what are you talking about ? If you condition Justification b4 God on a requirement, its works works works

Faith is not a work, not a performing. It is a disposition.

Works don't save, disposition does, which must be given by God to sinners so they can believe.

 

[makesends]

If people die without having faith they're going to hell. If they don't believe in the person and work of Jesus Christ they're going to hell.

Faith is a requirement, that's why God gives us faith. He provides.

If you say zero human response your saying no human responsibility before God.

Now what are you talking about ? If you condition Justification b4 God on a requirement, its works works works

I think you two are getting into the weeds about how to say something you both basically agree on.

Consider what @Eleanor affirms, here:

Faith is not a work, not a performing. It is a disposition.

Works don't save, disposition does, which must be given by God to sinners so they can believe.

--I could get wound up with her, disagreeing on the first phrase of that! Even the Arminian and Pelagian will protest that faith is not a work, not a performing, (but they don't mean it how we do (to include both @Hazelelponi and @brightfame52 ).) They earnestly believe that faith is not a work, but they claim it is OUR faith given us by God by God convincing us (or other words that amount to the same thing) by which they mean that faith is not belief except by us willing to submit to Christ (or other words to that effect).

But I don't disagree with her, except with her arrangement of words. We both believe the same thing there. I think we all four believe the same thing on this. But maybe I'm missing something. None of us believe in libertarian free will.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is not a work, not a performing. It is a disposition.

Works don't save, disposition does, which must be given by God to sinners so they can believe.

If you make anything a condition, its works ! Even if its Faith