Justification by Faith Alone

[brightfame52]

Your logic is solid, but ill-conceived (i.e. it is drawn on your use of language). Faith is something done in and to the elect; if one does not believe, they are condemned already. It is not their contribution to salvation.

Believing is commanded, so is it something done yes or No, why all the reluctance?

1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

When Paul spoke to the Jailor and said Believe on the Lord Jesus here Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe here is an active imperative in the greek ! So is the person active in believing ? In obeying ?

 

[brightfame52]

@makesends

; if one does not believe, they are condemned already.

So are you implying the persons believing removes their condemnation ?

 

[makesends]

Do you agree with me on this statement:

Not with how you mean it.

I bet you don't even realize you constantly attempt to trap people into your narrative, do you. You need to give up that method here. We don't play lawyer in court.

 

[makesends]

@makesends



So are you implying the persons believing removes their condemnation ?

See post #363

 

[makesends]

Believing is commanded, so is it something done yes or No, why all the reluctance?

1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

When Paul spoke to the Jailor and said Believe on the Lord Jesus here Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe here is an active imperative in the greek ! So is the person active in believing ? In obeying ?

See post #363

 

[makesends]

Do you believe Justification b4 God, forgiveness of sins is conditioned upon our act of believing or anything we do ?

See post #363

False equivalence. I've already spoken with you as to the difference between what you mean and what "conditioned" can mean. I'm not playing your game.

Most of us are not here to win the argument, nor to promote our personal take on things. We are here both to learn, hearing other statements concerning the truth, and to defend the truth. If you want worthy opponents with whom to prove your points, direct them at someone else. We really don't want to go to the trouble to bring you to your knees weeping your repentance.

 

[Arial]

@Arial



Then thats a work of righteousness, a good work following being created Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Do you believe one is Justified b4 God by good works following regeneration ?

No and I said as much.

 

[brightfame52]

Not with how you mean it.

I bet you don't even realize you constantly attempt to trap people into your narrative, do you. You need to give up that method here. We don't play lawyer in court.

Then that means no. Then some other act must take place

 

[brightfame52]

No and I said as much.

Okay, but i believe scripture teaches believing or any action of ours following regeneration are works of righteousness. And acts of ours prior to regeneration are works of the flesh. Thats what I believe, if you believe differently, thats between you and God.

 

[Arial]

Okay, but i believe scripture teaches believing or any action of ours following regeneration are works of righteousness. And acts of ours prior to regeneration are works of the flesh. Thats what I believe, if you believe differently, thats between you and God.

Not every act following regeneration is a work of righteousness. Being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable for example, is not a work of righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Not every act following regeneration is a work of righteousness. Being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable for example, is not a work of righteousness.

Believing on Jesus Christ is an act of righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification an act of God's Grace ! 3

#3 Now those who are Justified by Christ's death, verified by His resurrection from the dead Rom 4:25,

They have at least one more Justification to experience , that is in their consciousness, that verdict must be passed in their persons, this is done in the New Birth and the Spirit's witness, and hence by Faith we receive the witness of the Spirit in our consciousness Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

That means Faith has been given for this witness to be carried out Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

By this they are enabled to receive the Joy and Peace of Believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

That's because the Power of the Spirit produces the Faith, in fact Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

God given Faith is instrumental in conveyance of the Spiritual Knowledge of Justification in our hears and minds , but never is it the cause of our Justification before God !

 

[brightfame52]

The Justifier of him that believth on Jesus !


Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

That He might be Just and the Justifier of him which is believing on Jesus !

Now one of the meanings of this verse is that all who come to be believers in Jesus, its because God's Law and Justice has been satisfied for them by Jesus, that one who came to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21; and so they become believers because what Christ did for them is made known to them by the Spirit, for the Spirit takes what is Christ's accomplishment for them, and shows it to them Jn 16:14

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[The Church]

Since Christ has died for them, and satisified God's Law and Justice, paid their sin debt in full, they are given the right and privilege of believing on Him Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And of course those who do not believe on Jesus for Salvation, its simply because they were not of His Sheep which He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Non sheep do not have that privilege given to them Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Once again, those for whom Christ died, He for them only satisfied God's Law and Justice in His Sufferings and Death , which all the wrath due to their sins, and also fulfilling its Righteousness, so Faith is given to them through the Righteousness of God and their Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

All who come to believe on Jesus was because they were Justified before God by His Death and Imputed Righteousness !

 

[makesends]

Justification an act of God's Grace ! 3

#3 Now those who are Justified by Christ's death, verified by His resurrection from the dead Rom 4:25,

They have at least one more Justification to experience , that is in their consciousness, that verdict must be passed in their persons, this is done in the New Birth and the Spirit's witness, and hence by Faith we receive the witness of the Spirit in our consciousness Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

That means Faith has been given for this witness to be carried out Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

By this they are enabled to receive the Joy and Peace of Believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

That's because the Power of the Spirit produces the Faith, in fact Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

God given Faith is instrumental in conveyance of the Spiritual Knowledge of Justification in our hears and minds , but never is it the cause of our Justification before God !

The Justifier of him that believth on Jesus !


Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

That He might be Just and the Justifier of him which is believing on Jesus !

Now one of the meanings of this verse is that all who come to be believers in Jesus, its because God's Law and Justice has been satisfied for them by Jesus, that one who came to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21; and so they become believers because what Christ did for them is made known to them by the Spirit, for the Spirit takes what is Christ's accomplishment for them, and shows it to them Jn 16:14

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[The Church]

Since Christ has died for them, and satisified God's Law and Justice, paid their sin debt in full, they are given the right and privilege of believing on Him Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And of course those who do not believe on Jesus for Salvation, its simply because they were not of His Sheep which He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Non sheep do not have that privilege given to them Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Once again, those for whom Christ died, He for them only satisfied God's Law and Justice in His Sufferings and Death , which all the wrath due to their sins, and also fulfilling its Righteousness, so Faith is given to them through the Righteousness of God and their Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

All who come to believe on Jesus was because they were Justified before God by His Death and Imputed Righteousness !

I'm having trouble understanding why you are going to all this trouble to tell us what we already know. It is not proving your point, that we are born already justified, unlike the non-elect. It only proves (at best) that we are justified by the work of Christ.

But it does seem (much of it) to be copied/pasted so maybe it isn't all that much trouble.

Is there some other point you are making which I am missing?

 

[brightfame52]

I'm having trouble understanding why you are going to all this trouble to tell us what we already know. It is not proving your point, that we are born already justified, unlike the non-elect. It only proves (at best) that we are justified by the work of Christ.

But it does seem (much of it) to be copied/pasted so maybe it isn't all that much trouble.

Is there some other point you are making which I am missing?

If you already know, its fellowship in the truth, is that allowed ? Truth can be discussed, even challenged

 

[makesends]

If you already know, its fellowship in the truth, is that allowed ? Truth can be discussed, even challenged

Fellowship in the truth doesn't seem the tone of your postings, but...

Admittedly, I color what you say with your earlier statements of your theme. Thus, I took what you said, not as statements of scriptural fellowship, but as intended to support your theme. Your question seems a bit of equivocation, even sass.

 

[brightfame52]

Justified by His Death !

All for whom Christ died, are by that fact alone, Justified before God, and because of it ; and so is the meaning of these most blessed words Rom 8:32-34

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The obvious point here is that the non charges on God's Elect is solely based upon the Fact that Christ died, that He was delivered up and this constituted the phrase " It is God that Justifieth "

Now, if God delivered Christ up to die for us as per Vs 32, then we are delivered and Justified; and Christ having been delivered up for our offences as Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Then who shall lay anything to our Charge ? The implication is that God certainly doesn't ! For it is God that Justifieth ! The things the Apostle stated in Vs 32 of Rom 8 is what Gods Justifying is based upon in Vs 33 and then its clearly stated in the top of Vs 34 " It is Christ that died"

And then it is the Resurrection that gives evidential proof of the same Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, if God did not raise up Christ from the dead after He was delivered up for our sins, then we would have been condemned ! However, because He did raise up Christ after He died for the sins of those He died for, it means that those ones are Justified before Him; For that is what the resurrection signifies and proclaims ! The Justification of those He died in behalf of, and so He makes Intercession for them whom His Death Justified Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again [For our Justifcation], who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Jesus Christ died in order that God might Justify us, He was made a curse for us by dying Gal 3:13 and now God in Divine Justice acquits us , from the curse of the Law, which is Eternal Damnation Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[brightfame52]

Justifieth the ungodly while ungodly !

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

All those whom Christ died for are not only reconciled to God " by His Death alone" while they are enemies/ungodly Per Rom 5:10, but also as informed by this present text Rom 4:5, they are being justified while in a state of ungodliness ! We know that they are being Justified while being ungodly because in the original Justifying is in the present tense and ungodly has the definite article before it, denoting that He is justifying those who are the ungodly. That word ungodly is asebés:

impious, ungodly, wicked,
lack of reverence ("without due respect"), i.e. failing to honor what is sacred

destitute of reverential awe toward God, contemning God, impious: Romans 4:5; Romans 5:6;

These words define what the justified ones are by nature in themselves while they are being Justified by God !

So basically, what we have here, those Christ died for are in a state of free Justification before God, while they are in a ungodly state in themselves by nature. In themselves ungodly, before God because of Christ Justified. The word justifieth is the greek word Dikaioo:

render righteous or such he ought to be
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

It also is translated being freed as in Acts 13:39

and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

So while being ungodly in themselves, they are freed from being pronounced ungodly by the Judgment of God, and instead Righteous are they !

Now they are not just freed from this Judgment of being ungodly before God just for the sake of it, but because while being ungodly, they have Christ's Righteousness imputed to them, for Righteousness is imputed them without works Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Without works, works being :

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

So its imputed without any action of theirs, any desire of theirs, because they are in a state of ungodliness !

You see, God is Just in Justifying the elect while in a state of ungodliness, corruption and sin, for the sake of Christ's Righteousness He hath made unto them 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This is a truth that religionists will not be able to receive, for its foolishness to them !

 

[brightfame52]

What Rom 4:5 Teaches !

Rom 4:5 is one of the many scriptures that teach the Gospel doctrine of Justification before God prior to faith or believing Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

In this scripture its carefully indicated that the object of the believers Faith is God who Justifieth the ungodly or is justifying [present tense] the ungodly, now if being ungodly when Justifying them, then they were unbelieving; and yet He is Justifying them as such ! Because He that Justifies the ungodly justifies the unbeliever , the enemy, He is justifying them before their act of Faith or obedience to the Faith, which Faith evidences their Justification already in Christ !

John Gill wrote on this scripture:

But to him that worketh not,.... Not that the believer does not work at all, but not from such principles, and with such views as the other; he does not work in order to obtain life and salvation; he does not seek for justification by his doings:
but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness:

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works. The Vulgate Latin version here adds, "according to the purpose of the grace of God".

 

[brightfame52]

Justification beware !

It must be careful on how we understand Justification before God legally by the Obedience/Death of Christ, and Justification by ones work/s whenever we have Justification applied to us by the New Birth, or given heart circumcision, whereby we participate, partake in a conversion experience, whereby we do act Repentance and Faith toward God and The Lord Jesus Christ.

If we however deny Justification before God legally [in the court of heaven] even while we are ungodly Rom 4:5 and enemies Rom 5:10, and unbelievers and do not hold to being Justified legally before God solely on the meritorious blood of Christ, and only what He did for us, and not yet what He does in us, then again we deny the Legal Grace aspect of Justification soley by Christ's Death and trust to what we do after having had Justification applied inwardly by the Holy Spirit. To trust in the Spirit's Work in us, for Justification before God legally, overthrows and comes into competition with the Lord Jesus Christ's Work for Us, and that alone being the basis for ones Justification before God; Thus subtle heresy is what has deceived many who claim Justification before God by Faith alone, not realizing they are still teaching a work based Justification before God, based upon what a man does as a result of a inward work in them.

Last thing, its very important, Once we tend to base Justification before God on a inward or inherent qualification, be it natural or Spiritual, we are guilty of turning to Justification by our works, and deny Justification before God solely upon the Work of Christ, which the Resurrection of Christ does testify unto Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

But once we look inherently even be it our graces from Spiritual New Birth, and say in our heart, for this God Justified me, we deny the Legal Justification of the Cross, and so deny the Cross altogether !