Justification by Faith Alone

[Arial]

If we did not get into a calvin debate, or one of the many arminian vs calvin debates we probably would not know we disagree on this regeneration issue. If I met you on the street. and we just spoke Gods word. For the most part we would probably agree.

I am having trouble discerning the relevance of such a remark. It is regeneration that is being discussed. And in your statements even from your view, you say the right words, words that are true and the Calvinist also believes.

What is hidden is that in your opinion : Grace unto salvation is ineffective until the person has faith, and accepts saving grace. (Which logic would dictate makes grace not grace at all.) There is no scriptural support for the position.
The Reformed sees grace unto salvation as always effectual to actually save. ( John 6:37.44.65; Romans 8:29-30; Acts 13:48; Eze 36:26-27; 2 Cor 4:6; James 1:18)

In your view: Regeneration comes after and as a result of faith. No longer grace but a reaction of God to something the person has. (No scriptural support)
The Reformed: A person cannot have faith unless they are first made alive by regeneration. (John 3:3, 5-8; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:1,4-5,8-9; Titus 3:5; Romans 8:7-8; Acts 16:14; 1 John 5:1 (verb tense suggests being born of God precedes the act of believing---those who believe do so because they have been born of God); John 1:12-13).

The only way there would be agreement in your view and that of the Calvinist on this subject is if they weren't aware that you believe in prevenient grace. That is a "free will" argument that says a person is given a choice of whether to receive the gift of salvation (grace) or not because God would never be so unjust as to choose who to save and not save or all or give everyone equal opportunity. And that, my friend, is works based salvation. It is God reacting to man's decision, not Christ saving to the uttermost those for whom he died.

 

[EarlyActs]

steps of faith

what are we talking about?

Yes steps of faith various kinds of faith are good, but the justification issue only has one question and it is unique; how do we gain righteousness toward our debt of sin, and only Christ's righteousness can be appealed to or accessed for that. I think you have to know something about those issues of judgement, righteousness, sin, debt, credit. It's not the same as having faith that God will provide your next meal when you have nothing in your account.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification without Faith !

Ones Justification before God, if indeed Christ died for them, does not depend on their believing it, apprehending it by Faith, nor receiving it by Faith, in fact they do not even have to know about it at all, and in fact they don't until its revealed to them. The Only thing their Justification before God depended on was this Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

His Knowledge of them, which is foreknowledge and His Suffering Obedience, and He bearing their iniquities, and that's it. By those Two Things they are Justified before God, or as the ESV reads:

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.

Because of that, their Justification, their being declared Righteous is a done deal eternally. Now, in God's Time, those that its a done deal for, shall have it made known to them by the Gospel, then they shall apprehend that fact by Faith Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

That's what True Justification by Faith means, that ones already done and accomplished Eternal Justification by Christ's Obedience for them, is revealed to them in the Gospel. Rom 1:16-17 !

However they were still eternally Justified before they apprehended it by God given Faith.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes steps of faith various kinds of faith are good, but the justification issue only has one question and it is unique; how do we gain righteousness toward our debt of sin, and only Christ's righteousness can be appealed to or accessed for that. I think you have to know something about those issues of judgement, righteousness, sin, debt, credit. It's not the same as having faith that God will provide your next meal when you have nothing in your account.

I thing we are told in Gen 15. and paul tells us in Romans 4

Abraham believed God and God credited it to him for righteousness.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 ;who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

 

[Eleanor]

Justification without Faith !

Ones Justification before God, if indeed Christ died for them, does not depend on their believing it, apprehending it by Faith, nor receiving it by Faith, in fact they do not even have to know about it at all, and in fact they don't until its revealed to them. The Only thing their Justification before God depended on was this Isa 53:11

There is no justification without saving faith in Jesus Christ.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

His Knowledge of them, which is foreknowledge and His Suffering Obedience, and He bearing their iniquities, and that's it. By those Two Things they are Justified before God, or as the ESV reads:


Because of that, their Justification, their being declared Righteous is a done deal eternally. Now, in God's Time, those that its a done deal for, shall have it made known to them by the Gospel, then they shall apprehend that fact by Faith Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

That's what True Justification by Faith means, that ones already done and accomplished Eternal Justification by Christ's Obedience for them, is revealed to them in the Gospel. Rom 1:16-17 !

However they were still eternally Justified before they apprehended it by God given Faith.

They were not actually justified until their saving faith in Christ (Ro 3:28).

 

[brightfame52]

@Eleanor

There is no justification without saving faith in Jesus Christ.

There is no Faith in Jesus when its denied His blood Justified you before God Rom 5:9

 

[EarlyActs]

I thing we are told in Gen 15. and paul tells us in Romans 4

Abraham believed God and God credited it to him for righteousness.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 ;who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

He has been shown that his seed would come through Christ even though a natural son/descendant was involved at times.

 

[Eleanor]

There is no Faith in Jesus when its denied His blood Justified you before God Rom 5:9

Relevance?

 

[brightfame52]

To say a person is Justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing, is a flat out denial that one is Justifed by Christ; For there is a difference in what Christ did, and what the person does; Now if we acknowledge that our believing was a assent to the Truth of our Justification before God being already a accomplished fact and a done deal solely by Christ's Blood As Per Rom 5:9, then believing is just a good work and evidence of our Justification before God. For it is written Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Justification before God is the thing not seen by the physical Eye, but it must exist before Faith is the Evidence of it !

Ones now having evidence of it , is not what caused it to exist before God as a fact, prior to receiving evidence of it.

 

[brightfame52]

True God given Faith in Justification doesnt cause our Justification b4 God, but it causes us to lay hold of that Justification b4 God accomplished for us at the Cross !

 

[Eleanor]

To say a person is Justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing, is a flat out denial that one is Justifed by Christ;

One is justified through/by faith (Ro 3:28), which faith is a gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3).

 

[brightfame52]

One is justified through/by faith (Ro 3:28), which faith is a gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3).

To be Justified by Faith is to be Justified by Christ. However your faith isnt in Christ if you dont believe His Blood Justified you b4 God.

 

[Eleanor]

True God given Faith in Justification doesnt cause our Justification b4 God, but it causes us to lay hold of that Justification b4 God accomplished for us at the Cross !

To be Justified by Faith is to be Justified by Christ. However your faith isnt in Christ if you dont believe His Blood Justified you b4 God.

Justification is a declaration of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a pronouncement of righteousness, which follows the gift of faith (Php 1:29).
We don't "lay hold" of that declaration / sentence / pronouncement.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is a declaration of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a pronouncement of righteousness, which follows the gift of faith (Php 1:29).
We don't "lay hold" of that declaration / sentence / pronouncement.

Justification by Faith is Justification by Christ

 

[brightfame52]

When Christ sat down at the Right Hand of God, He had finished a Great work, He purified the elect from their sins,

Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This was their Justification before God, it can only be apprehended by God given Faith.

However their sins were purged by Him before they were given Faith to believe it.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification& Faith​

Question- But doth not the Scripture say, that we are justified by faith?

What is faith? And how are we justified by the same? Answer - There be in Scripture divers kinds of faith mentioned, by reason whereof, many think, that they believe to justification, and are deceived;{Mt.7:22;} for justification is free on God’s part, and without any condition at all on our part, for if faith were a condition of our justification, then it were not free, justification being an act of God in his eternal counsel and purpose, before the world began;{Rom.8:29;} if faith were a condition thereof, then are we justified for some fore-seen grace in us, and not freely by his grace. Now faith is neither a means, nor yet any condition of justification, but rather an evidence, or demonstration thereof; {Rom.11:5,6;} for true faith is that, whereby we close with God in the promise of life and salvation, in and by Jesus Christ. {Rom.4:19,20, Jn.6:44-47} Now this faith is not in us by nature, but is wrought in the heart, by the manifestation of God in the soul. When the Lord is pleased to reveal Christ in the soul, and to discover to the same, that he is well pleased with him in Christ, and that he hath freely forgiven all his sins, merely for the merit and righteousness of his Son, and that now he accepts of him as righteous, in his beloved Son; and that in Christ he hath adopted him to himself, to be his Son; now when the soul apprehends this, then it is thereby enabled to believe it,{Rom.4:21,} and rests upon it. And thus true faith doth not act in the works of justification, but only believes it when it is revealed in the soul; and then believing, hath peace with God, and can look upon him with comfort, and can joy in him in all tribulations.{Rom.5:1,2} Now no man can believe in Jesus Christ, until he be revealed unto him by the Father; {Jn.6:44;} and according to the measure or degrees whereby God is pleased to discover Himself to any man, so he can believe or confide in him more or less; so that itis plain, that faith is no means or condition of our justification; but by faith we believe it, and rest confidently assured of it when it is revealed, and so have joy and peace in believing. William Mason{A Little Star – Giving Some Light into the Counsels and Purposes of God Revealed in the Scriptures, 1653} William_Mason​

 

[brightfame52]

8. In saying we are justified by believing, ye deny that we are justified by Christ ,which is dangerous, though it hath a show of truth, because Christ and believing are two things; so that it’s to divide our Justification between God and man, Christ and us, his works and ours. Saints Desire Samuel Richardson

http://www.supralapsarian.com/pdf/samuel-richardson-saints-desire.pdf

 

[brightfame52]

Justification before they believed !

The Justification of the Elect before they believed is Taught in Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Here all the elect or the church were Justified in their Head and Representative, when He rose from the dead after being delivered for their offences!

The YLT: who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

Christ resurrection from the dead was a testification or gives testimony that all for whom He died have been legally acquitted or discharged from all their sins. It was more than just an acquittal of Christ, because He was not delivered for His own offences, but the offences of others.

For Christ was their Surety, made so from Eternity in the Everlasting Covenant when He had their sins laid to His charge [imputation], by which He became legally liable by the Justice of God, and in due time, He gave Himself as an Offering for their sins, and when He arose from the dead, not as an private person, for He did not die as a private person for his own transgressions, but for the sins of the Many. So when He rose Justified and acquitted, then those for whom He died were also acquitted and Justified. For if He was delivered for their sins, then He was raised for their Justification, therefore all for whom Christ died and rose for , are Justified, even if they have not yet been born sinners, for God knows whose sins He bare , because it was for all those the Father hath given Him Jn 17:2. To deny this, one may as well deny Christ's resurrection from the dead. All this was accomplished [their Justification] before they believed a thing !

 

[Eleanor]

When Christ sat down at the Right Hand of God, He had finished a Great work, He purified the elect from their sins,

Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This was their Justification before God, it can only be apprehended by God given Faith.

Justifification (declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of righteous) is the result of salvation, both by faith (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28).

 

[brightfame52]

Justifification (declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of righteous) is the result of salvation, both by faith (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28).

By Christ ! Justification is soley by Christ, Faith points to what Christ has done, you are making faith the saviour !