Jesus is God {title edited}

[Arial]

Jesus isn't the creator of all things nor does the Bible say that. The church was created through him, but not the universe, world, etc.

Col 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by[f] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

It does not even say He created the church but it says He is the head of the church. And you can't just take that verse and make your heretical doctrine, while ignoring what it said before. You cannot make the church mean "all things". You can't make the church mean "visible and invisible." You cannot make the church mean "thrones," dominions," rulers," or "authorities."

 

[Mr GLee]

And, to finish the thought, the bible states that Jesus and the Father are one. It also states that they are in each other and that if you see one, you have seen the other. Beware of the selective use of scripture to support doctrine. All good doctrine stands upon the whole of the bible.

One in purpose. The Father strengthening the Son of man Jesus to finish the demonstration of two. One seen the temporal the other eternal not seen.

God is not a man as dying mankind.

 

[CrowCross]

It is right here at this very point where Jehovah's Witnesses have rank and file pew
warmers at a disadvantage due to the fact that relatively few Christians are able to
discern the difference between the Word of John 1:1-3 and the flesh that the Word
became at John 1:14

The Word became flesh..but still remained the Word who was God.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

In the context of the verse you proof texted, it says that he was raised from the dead, not that he raised himself from the dead. Jesus and Luke are in harmony. God raised Jesus from the dead because Jesus isn't God.

One in purpose. The Father strengthening the Son of man Jesus to finish the demonstration of two. One seen the temporal the other eternal not seen.

God is not a man as dying mankind.

“In purpose” is your addition to the text. The Greek indicates singularity.

 

[Mr GLee]

“In purpose” is your addition to the text. The Greek indicates singularity.

Yes as if one.

Some make it all together as one. . . therefore worship the dying flesh of the Son of man Jesus our brother in the lord above that of our living eternal Holy Father.

Defining the wrath of God . God is not a dying creation ,

Romans 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things (temporal historical)that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Roan 2: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the dying creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

The Bible says the Father raised Jesus from the dead. Where does it say Jesus raised himself from the dead?

When Jesus was on Earth, he pulled off some real miracles. He brought four people back from the dead. First up, he brought back the widow's son in Nain village (Luke 7:15). Then there's this 12-year-old daughter of Jairus, a big shot in the synagogue, and Jesus brought her back too (Mark 5:42). Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, was raised in Bethany after being dead for four days (John 11:44). Oh, and don't forget, he even pulled off the ultimate resurrection– raising himself from the dead after getting crucified.

Sure, the New Testament says God the Father had a hand in raising Jesus from the dead (Romans 6:4; Acts 2:32). But you gotta know, Jesus was no passive actor in all this. He was all in on bringing himself back to life. He said in John 10:18, "No one snatches my life away; I lay it down willingly. I got the power to lay it down and pick it up again. That's the power my Father gave me." God the Father gave Jesus the authority to rise from the grave.

And check this out in John 5:21–22: "Just like the Father raises the dead and gives 'em life, the Son does the same. The Father handed over all the judgment to the Son." So, Jesus has the authority to raise the dead, including himself. In John 2:19, he makes this claim: "Wreck this temple, and in three days, I'll build it back up." And John clears up what he meant in John 2:21. Break this body, wait three days, and bam! Jesus did the most amazing resurrection ever.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

You're catching on it seems. Jesus isn't the creator of all things nor does the Bible say that. The church was created through him, but not the universe, world, etc.

These are your additions to the scriptures. You should be careful about injecting your own words into the text.

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This text makes it really crystal clear.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

So does this one. Don't take my word for it, take the bible's word for it.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

~

The Word became flesh..but still remained the Word who was God.

Christ is a mite complex due to the fact that when the Word of John 1:1-3 came
into the world as the flesh of John 1:14, he came as a Jewish man rather than a
divine man, and the quality of his flesh was no different than the quality of every
other man's flesh.

● Rom 8:3 . . God sent His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin
offering.

Had the Word come into the world as a divine man, he would be unable to relate to
common men, viz: his ability to empathize would be severely limited.

● Heb 2:16-18 . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he
might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he
might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered
when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

That's the primary reason why high priests are chosen from among men rather
than from celestial beings, i.e. mediators between God and Man have to be 100%
fully human, no exceptions; which is no doubt at least one of the reasons why the
letter to Hebrews goes to such lengths comparing Jesus' functions to those of
Aaron's and Melchizedek's.
_

 

[Mr GLee]

When Jesus was on Earth, he pulled off some real miracles. He brought four people back from the dead. First up, he brought back the widow's son in Nain village (Luke 7:15). Then there's this 12-year-old daughter of Jairus, a big shot in the synagogue, and Jesus brought her back too (Mark 5:42). Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, was raised in Bethany after being dead for four days (John 11:44). Oh, and don't forget, he even pulled off the ultimate resurrection– raising himself from the dead after getting crucified.

The Son of man Jesus did not perform one miracle to include raising or healing himself . He is not God the miracle worker. Some of the Jews tried to make Jesus into a circus seal

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe
believer do not look or seek for signs to wonder after .They have prophecy till the end of time

The father not seen alone is accredited of have to raise those who are asleep (called dead) Three days the Father kept the body of Jesus from corrupting to the point of no return (dead to never rise) . Four days for Lazarus. Sleep= dead

 

[Runningman]

The one doing the raising is not in that sentence. That sentence tells us when the disciples remembered what Jesus said and believed it. And what Jesus said that they remembered is: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (Speaking about the temple of His body.) That is where we see the one doing the raising.

Jesus had already said that He would raise it up. Why would it say it again? Prophetically or not, He still said "I will raise it up."

You left out the ones that say the Spirit raised Him. So there you have three. Father, Son. Holy Spirit. That makes them One.

Jesus wasn't saying he was going to raise himself from the dead. He was speaking prophetically about his own resurrection, something that John 2:22 proves that Jesus didn't do to himself.

Where is there anything explicit about Jesus raising himself from the dead after his crucifixion? If you take the time to look, you're not going to find anything. By all counts, you're going to find the Father doing it.

 

[Runningman]

No that is what you infer. Note: Of it isn't what it teaches, but you think it is, then you are the one doing the inferring. And what you infer is way beside the point. Your inferences will not refute something that doesn't exist.

I will revisit my original words:

"The fallacy of Trinitarianism is that Jesus didn't actually die, but rather a body died. The real Jesus went off somewhere resurrected himself. In effect, nothing but lifeless human body was the sacrifice." (post #117)

So now let me ask you. When Jesus died, who or what died, and what exactly is your sin sacrifice in trinitarianism?

 

[Runningman]

Col 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by[f] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

It does not even say He created the church but it says He is the head of the church. And you can't just take that verse and make your heretical doctrine, while ignoring what it said before. You cannot make the church mean "all things". You can't make the church mean "visible and invisible." You cannot make the church mean "thrones," dominions," rulers," or "authorities."

The version you're using says "by" him, but the best version of this word would be "through" him. It refers to the instrumentality of Jesus being used by God in creation. The key here isn't that Jesus is the actual creator, but rather the instrument with which God created with. In other words, Jesus isn't the prime mover because he isn't the actual creator.

Furthermore, God Himself isn't the image of God, i.e., the Father is never called the image of God. The fullness of God dwelled in the Son because he isn't himself God.

If you will keep reading into the context, it says in verse 20 that none of it actually took place until his blood of the cross. Boom. That's the creation of the church.

The actual creator of the material universe, the world, mattery, energy, etc. is the Father. The only true God.

Please note, Jesus is never referred to as the Lord of heaven and earth in the Bible because he isn't the creator. Jesus is God's servant, a prophet, a man through whom God spoke, gave the gospel, created the church, etc.

Matt 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Acts 4
24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.
27...Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.

 

[Runningman]

“In purpose” is your addition to the text. The Greek indicates singularity.

Then the problem you create with Jesus being God after being one with God is that it must also include others who are one with God also being God. That isn't a trinity, that's a pantheon of gods. That isn't trinitarianism. There's our clue that trinitarianism isn't Christianity.

John 17
21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

1 Corinthians 6
17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.

 

[Runningman]

When Jesus was on Earth, he pulled off some real miracles. He brought four people back from the dead. First up, he brought back the widow's son in Nain village (Luke 7:15). Then there's this 12-year-old daughter of Jairus, a big shot in the synagogue, and Jesus brought her back too (Mark 5:42). Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, was raised in Bethany after being dead for four days (John 11:44). Oh, and don't forget, he even pulled off the ultimate resurrection– raising himself from the dead after getting crucified.

Sure, the New Testament says God the Father had a hand in raising Jesus from the dead (Romans 6:4; Acts 2:32). But you gotta know, Jesus was no passive actor in all this. He was all in on bringing himself back to life. He said in John 10:18, "No one snatches my life away; I lay it down willingly. I got the power to lay it down and pick it up again. That's the power my Father gave me." God the Father gave Jesus the authority to rise from the grave.

And check this out in John 5:21–22: "Just like the Father raises the dead and gives 'em life, the Son does the same. The Father handed over all the judgment to the Son." So, Jesus has the authority to raise the dead, including himself. In John 2:19, he makes this claim: "Wreck this temple, and in three days, I'll build it back up." And John clears up what he meant in John 2:21. Break this body, wait three days, and bam! Jesus did the most amazing resurrection ever.

Jesus did nothing of himself nor did he say that his power came from himself. The Bible's testimony about Jesus and his disciples power was that it came from God the Father, not the Son of God.

Can you do greater works than God?

John 14
10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. 11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves.
12Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.

Acts 4
30as You stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[Runningman]

These are your additions to the scriptures. You should be careful about injecting your own words into the text.

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This text makes it really crystal clear.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

So does this one. Don't take my word for it, take the bible's word for it.

That doesn't say anything about Jesus creating the world. Jesus isn't a word. The logos of God refers to God's words, etc. You can read more about the context refers to God being in the world, but John 3 and 6 say Jesus came from heaven. That means Jesus isn't omnipresent, i.e., he wasn't in the world.

Furthermore, Jesus isn't the "true light" who gives light to men. The light which Jesus received was given to him by God.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

That doesn't say anything about Jesus creating the world.

Uh? All things?

Jesus isn't a word. The logos of God refers to God's words, etc.

Really? You think that John's use of logos was mean words???? In the 1st century, Logos referred to that which gave order, form, and meaning to the universe. Rev 9:13 describes Jesus this way, "He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God."

You can read more about the context refers to God being in the world, but John 3 and 6 say Jesus came from heaven. That means Jesus isn't omnipresent, i.e., he wasn't in the world.

God came down also (Gen 11:5) so then He must not be omnipresent.

Furthermore, Jesus isn't the "true light" who gives light to men. The light which Jesus received was given to him by God.

You have messed with the following passage, basically disagreeing with it.

John 1
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Fred]

1 Corinthians 6
17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.

The Lord in 1 Corinthians 6:17 is Jesus.

 

[Mr GLee]

“In purpose” is your addition to the text. The Greek indicates singularity.

Yoked with his labor of love or called a work of his faith born again sons of God (Christians) . . . can "two fold." . . both hear his will and empower us to do it to His good pleasure of our one invisible God our Holy Father working in the affairs' dying mankind .

Some murrur like Jonah who desired to die rather than be a part in forgiving those who know nothing of the Bible .Not like others. . . like Jesus the Son of man he did the will of the father with delight .

It's easy to see our Holy Father is not served by the dying hands of mankind. He can use a unbeliever to preach his gospels written on dead stone as easily as one living stone (Christian ) that does believe in the unseen things of God (powerful faith) God has no needs but satisfies all.

Philippians 2: 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

One purpose ."let there be" and the good testimony was "God alone good" .The good golden measure of faith the power of God.
Called the law of faith or hearing of faith. Faith representing the creative power of God. . . . not of us the powerless faithless .No fgaith that could please God pleasing man yes. Mankind is reckremed as faith less not little none. .the unseen law that works in those yoked with His labor of love, not own understanding but His mixed with believers

Work of faith . . . . .work of His power . . powerfully working giving us ears to hear his understanding as it is writen .It would seem we remember him just as we remember each other of those who love us in a future living hope beyond the grave the household of God .

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

In other words. . .your new born again work of faith, and labour of love yoked with Christ .

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

He shares that power with us the powerless By his power we are strengthened to do his will of his daily bread. He can make the burdens lighter as a living hope beyond what the eyes see the temporal .

 

[grace2]

No. That would be you.

another false accusation.

 

[grace2]

You are responding to a post with a non sequitur. I was not making accusations,

Yes, you are.