"It's All a Matter of Interpretation"

[Eleanor]

The word "church" is an interpretation for "assembly" or "congregation." Originally a church was a Roman voting booth.

Source for Roman voting booth?

 

[CherubRam]

Source for Roman voting booth?

kirk /kûrk/

noun​

1. A church.
2. The Presbyterian Church of Scotland. Used with the.
3. The Scotch and Northern English form of the word church, surviving from Middle English: now often used specifically for the Established Church of Scotland.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

The word "Church" is not in scripture.

The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?

If you will take notice, the word Church is not used in the Old Testament. The word Ekklesia is used 114 times, and mostly as an INTERPRETATION for Church and a few times as Assembly or Congregation. The word Church is an INTERPRETATION were as Assembly or Congregation would be a TRANSLATION.

The ecclesia or ekklesia was the principal assembly of the democracy of ancient Athens during its Golden Age (480-404 BCE). It was a gathering place for politicians and voters. This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal means a building.

Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "'churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples! Where then did the word "church", come from?
Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However to accept this, one has to stretch your imagination in an attempt to see any resemblance. Also, because kuriakon means a building (the house of Kurios=Lords), and not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, even if it is true.

Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin. They all trace the word back to its Old English or Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe. And what is the origin of circe? Any encyclopedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess daughter of Helios, the Sun deity! Again, another form of Sun worship, this time the daughter of the Sun deity had become mixed with the Christian Faith.

Some interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with circum". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".

However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin.

Let us rather use the Scriptural "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun deity which is worshiped even today on the day of the Sun, Sunday!


The word church is an interpretation for the words Assembly and Congregation. For example, the Catholic Church has said that salvation can only be found through the Catholic Church.
And that is why you see the interpretation church given in the bible.


The oldest word for church that St. Paul used, is the Greek word “ecclesia,” from which we get the terms “ecclesial” and “ecclesiastical.” The word was in use centuries before Christianity. The words “church” and “circus” are related. It referred to a socio-political gathering of citizens, who were called together to attend to the concerns of their city.

1. Mark 14:58
   "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.' "
   
   
2. John 2:21
   But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
   
   
3. Acts 17:24
   "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.
   
   
4. 1 Corinthians 3:16
   Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
   
   
5. 1 Corinthians 3:17
   If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
   
   
6. 1 Corinthians 6:19
   Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
   
   
7. 2 Corinthians 6:16
   What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
   
   
8. Ephesians 2:21
   In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
   
   
9. Revelation 3:12
   Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
   
   
10. Revelation 11:1
    [ The Two Witnesses ] I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there.
    
    
11. Revelation 15:5
    After this I looked and in heaven the temple, that is, the tabernacle of the Testimony, was opened.
    
    
12. Revelation 21:22
    I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

 

[CherubRam]

It is probably derived from Old English “cirice,” which in turn came from the German “kirika,” which likely came from the Greek “kuriake,” which means “of the Lord.” Some scholars dispute this, saying that our English word derives from the Anglo-Saxon “kirke,” which in turn comes from the Latin “circus."

Is the word church in the Bible?


The word “church” does not appear in the Old Testament but it appears about 120 times in the New Testament.

What is the Hebrew word for church?


Etymology and meaning

Where the Masoretic Text uses the term qahal, the Septuagint usually uses the Koine Greek term ekklesia, ἐκκλησία, which means "assembly", "gathering", or "congregation", later used for church.

 

[donadams]

Not in Jn 1:11 in my Bible.

Sorry 2 pet 1:11

 

[donadams]

The church are the redeemed, the body and bride of Christ, the called-out assembly of God's people, the adopted sons of God.

Is Jesus Christ not the redeemer of the world?

 

[donadams]

The new covenant
The kingdom
The body of christ
The household of faith

All and more!

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5 (the church is the new Jerusalem the kingdom) gal 4:26 (one church) Jn 10:16

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 6:26
I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

Daniel 7:14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 

[ChristB4us]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

Since scripture cannot go against scripture for why the lost books are not considered scripture and thus not accepted with the Bible as scripture, one can go to Jesus Christ in prayer by trusting Him as their personal Good Shepherd & Friend to discern and understand the truth in His words so as to weed out those false teachings and errant doctrines and apostate practices & ungodly manifestations for their not rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Mr GLee]

Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "'churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples! Where then did the word "church", come from?

I would think called out are those sent out with the gospel, apostles .Not called in .

 

[Mr GLee]

Is Jesus Christ not the redeemer of the world?

The whole Christian world yes.

 

[donadams]

Why can't an author interpret his own material by enlightening his readers of his intended meaning?

Where do find the authors so we can ask them?

How can you say scripture alone when scripture says other wise?

Tradition (oral teaching)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Not scripture alone!

 

[donadams]

When did you last see a stop sign, stop? When has a sign ever been anything other than a sign?

An outward sign of an inward action of grace, cos you can’t see a spiritual soul or grace

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Ez 36:25-27

Thanks

 

[Arial]

An outward sign of an inward action of grace, cos you can’t see a spiritual soul or grace

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Ez 36:25-27

Thanks

Then the outward produces the inward instead of the inward producing the outward. Does that not seem a bit backwards to you? Human action in your scenario is what causes God's actions. That makes the human superior to God. What does the Bible say? "Believe and be baptised." A person has been baptised into someone and the water baptism is an outward sign that signifies the union.

 

[donadams]

The whole Christian world yes.

No, is he the redeemer of the whole world?

 

[Eleanor]

kirk /kûrk/ noun

1. A church.
2. The Presbyterian Church of Scotland. Used with the.
3. The Scotch and Northern English form of the word church, surviving from Middle English: now often used specifically for the Established Church of Scotland.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
The word "Church" is not in scripture.

Not my claim. . .

 

[Mr GLee]

No, is he the redeemer of the whole world?

He redeems as many as he draws to himself . It's not general redemption of everyone . . universalism

 

[donadams]

Then the outward produces the inward instead of the inward producing the outward. Does that not seem a bit backwards to you? Human action in your scenario is what causes God's actions. That makes the human superior to God. What does the Bible say? "Believe and be baptised." A person has been baptised into someone and the water baptism is an outward sign that signifies the union.

The sacraments are instituted by Christ for the salvation of all men, the church teaches them and administers them, there were sacraments in the old covenant

He redeems as many as he draws to himself . It's not general redemption of everyone . . universalism

all men are redeemed!

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)


We cannot read scripture for ourselves and make our own doctrine or faith
Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

 

[Eleanor]

Is Jesus Christ not the redeemer of the world?

He is the Redeemer of all creation except for the humans who do not believe in and trust on his atoning work for the remission of their sin.
They are not redeemed.

 

[Eleanor]

Sorry 2 pet 1:11

The things they are to do in 2 Pe 1:11 (vv. 5-7) do not mention baptism.

 

[donadams]

The things they are to do in 2 Pe 1:11 (vv. 5-7) do not mention baptism.

Really Jn 3:5 without baptism you cannot enter the “kingdom”
2 pet 1:11 an entrance into the “kingdom” shall be ministered unto you

 

[ChristB4us]

@prism

Since scripture is to testify of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in seeking His glory and by Him, the glory of God the Father, then you have to wonder how they rightly divide the word for what end? To lure you away from the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in your walk with the Father? Then that would be not rightly dividing the word of truth as any question as t the right interpretation is what it does in the end; To Jesus or away from Jesus to something else in His name?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.