"It's All a Matter of Interpretation"

[prism]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

 

[John Bauer]

It really depends on the context in which it is raised.

 

[prism]

It really depends on the context in which it is raised.

In the context of attempting to back up one's case with Scripture.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

IF you know anything about "Theology", you simply AGREE WITH IT. ALL God's Chilluns got's "interpretations". The Holy Spirit guides into TRUTH, if you pay attention to Him.

 

[TB2]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

It all depends on how one interprets that comeback

 

[TB2]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

In the end there can be only one correct interpretation. However, we may not always be able to determine the correct interpretation. Some passages have multiple suggested possible interpretations with no clear 'winner.' More often than not, the evidence supports a particular interpretation.

Importantly, Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation. More often than not people commit the error of anachronism and read back their own understanding of the time into the Bible.

To understand what the text means and what is the correct interpretation we need to follow the principle that we must first seek to understand the *original context*. This is basic Biblical Hermeneutics 101. I like this diagram of the process: (1) First, determine what it meant then, in order to know (2) what it actually means, so that (3) we know how to correctly apply it today. If more sought to understand the original intent, there'd be a whole lot fewer spurious interpretations.

 

[prism]

Thx, that was helpful.
I imagine at times determining the timeless from the timebound principles can be a challenge.

 

[TB2]

Thx, that was helpful.
I imagine at times determining the timeless from the timebound principles can be a challenge.

And we're still always basing interpretations on our incomplete, limited knowledge of the original context

 

[CrowCross]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

True, some of the bible is a matter of interpretation. Fortunatly most scropture can be interpreted from other scripture as the bible often interprets itself. To say the entire bible is a matter of interpretation is incorrect.

Many interpret scripture through what they were taught in their childhood science "text books" and carry that narrative through their college instruction.

Once that "learning" is cat into stone it's hard to present any other concept. Often we are told the dinosaurs are old...very old, 65+ MY's old as demonstrated by the dinosaur fossils found in the strate which makes up the pieced together geolgical column. But problems arise...different interpretations of that narrative....when evidence shows the dinosaur fossils were a direct result of the Biblical world wide flood and humans and dinosaurs were contemporaneous.

But some "christians" don't believe the bible when it speaks of a world wide flood and then are forced to fit Genesis into the old earth narrative despite creation scientist presenting volumns of scientific data points showing there was a worls wide flood and the earth isn't as old as we have been indoctrinated into believing.

 

[TB2]

But problems arise...different interpretations of that narrative....when evidence shows the dinosaur fossils were a direct result of the Biblical world wide flood and humans and dinosaurs were contemporaneous.

despite creation scientist presenting volumns of scientific data points showing there was a worls wide flood and the earth isn't as old as we have been indoctrinated into believing.

It's ironic that you reject science but then speak of supposed scientific "evidence." Need to stick with your first statement: we need to keep modern science out of Scripture entirely. It leads to misinterpretation.

Fortunatly most scropture can be interpreted from other scripture as the bible often interprets itself. To say the entire bible is a matter of interpretation is inincorrect

Translations are interpretations

We also must be careful with "Scripture interprets Scripture," because the Bible was written over some 1,500 years and word meanings change over time. Many misinterpretations happen this way too, when people do word studies and look up a single word throughout the Bible and don't consider the context of each different passage. Take for example, "flesh." Paul uses the term "flesh" in about seven different ways that are very context specific.

The truth is none of us can come to the Bible with complete objectivity, nor can we understand the whole Bible without external resources, like information about the culture and history of the time. For example, most of what we know about the Pharisees and Sadducees comes from the Jewish historian Josephus. In Revelation we wouldn't know "the city on seven hills" is a reference to ancient Rome without knowledge of this from outside the Bible.

 

[CrowCross]

In Revelation we wouldn't know "the city on seven hills" is a reference to ancient Rome without knowledge of this from outside the Bible.

Here is a perfect example of you applying an interpretation.....Did you know besides Rome, Jerusalem and Washington DC are built on 7 hills?

 

[TB2]

Here is a perfect example of you applying an interpretation.....Did you know besides Rome, Jerusalem and Washington DC are built on 7 hills?

In ancient times--and in the time and provenance the book of Revelation was written--"the city on seven hills" was a well-known designation for Rome. Do you disagree that it is a reference to Rome? (My point was simply that in order to identify the city, requires we look at sources outside the Bible; the Bible doesn't say it's Rome (or Jerusalem or DC)

 

[CrowCross]

In ancient times--and in the time and provenance the book of Revelation was written--"the city on seven hills" was a well-known designation for Rome. Do you disagree that it is a reference to Rome? (My point was simply that in order to identify the city, requires we look at sources outside the Bible; the Bible doesn't say it's Rome (or Jerusalem or DC)

I'm saying it doesn't have to be Rome.

Many say the USA is Babylon...with good reason. This puts the 7 hilled Washington DC into the scenario.

But you know best..right?

 

[TB2]

I'm saying it doesn't have to be Rome.

Many say the USA is Babylon...with good reason. This puts the 7 hilled Washington DC into the scenario.

But you know best..right?

Nope, I sure don't know best. But I do know what leading scholars on the book of Revelation say like Gregory Beale: that it's a reference to ancient Rome, and that that's the only thing that makes sense in its original context.

But let's run with your suggestion. In fact, let's not stop with Washington DC. Let's consider ALL cities in the world that claim to be built on seven hills. According to Wikipedia, there are over 90 potential candidates for the title "the city on seven hills." Surely, Revelation can't be referring to all of them. So how do we decide which of these 90 plus cities Revelation is actually referring to?

Africa​

Yaounde, city of Seven Hills during the night

• Ceuta, Spain[citation needed]
• Ibadan, Nigeria[2][3]
• Kampala, Uganda[4] - the hills are Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere
• Sunset view of hills in the city of YaoundeYaoundé, Cameroon[5]

Americas​

• Albany, New York[6]
• Athens, Texas[7]
• Asunción, Paraguay[8]
• Chicontepec, Mexico, whose name is Nahuatl for "on seven hills"[9][circular reference][10]
• Cincinnati, Ohio (now encompasses more than seven)[11][12]
• Dubuque, Iowa[13]
• Ellicott City, Maryland[14]
• Guaranda, Ecuador[15][16]
• Kernersville, North Carolina
• Lynchburg, Virginia, College Hill, Garland Hill, Daniel's Hill, Federal Hill, Diamond Hill, White Rock Hill, and Franklin Hill were the original "Seven Hills" of the City of Lynchburg.[17]
• Nevada City, California, built upon Aristocracy Hill, American Hill, Piety Hill, Prospect Hill, Wet Hill, Cement Hill, and Lost Hill. There is also a middle school and business district called Seven Hills.
• Newton, Massachusetts
• Nixa, Missouri
• Port Washington, Wisconsin, whose seven hills comprise two High School Hills, North Bluff Hill, South Hill, St. Mary’s Hill, Billy Goat Hill and Sweet Cake Hill.
• Pottsville, Pennsylvania, built on Lawton's Hill, Greenwood Hill, Bunker Hill (Sharp Mountain), Guinea Hill, Forest Hills, Cottage Hill and Mount Hope.
• Providence, Rhode Island, built on Christian Hill, College Hill, Constitution Hill, Federal Hill, Smith Hill, Tockwotten Hill, and Weybosset Hill.[18]
• Richmond, Virginia, built on numerous hills and escarpments to include Union Hill, Church Hill, Council Chamber Hill, Shockoe Hill, Gambles Hill, Navy Hill and Oregon Hill.[19]

 

[TB2]

• Rome, Georgia
• Rome, Maryland
• Saint Paul, Minnesota, exact list of seven hills varies, but every list includes Cathedral Hill, Capitol Hill, Dayton's Bluff, Crocus Hill (sometimes also called St. Clair), and Williams Hill—which is no longer a hill.[20]
• Valera, Trujillo, Venezuela[21]
• San Francisco, California (see List of hills in San Francisco)
• Seattle, Washington (see Seven hills of Seattle)
• Seven Hills, Ohio
• Somerville, Massachusetts, built on Clarendon Hill, College Hill, Spring Hill, Winter Hill, Central Hill, Plowed Hill, Cobble Hill.[22]
• Staten Island, New York – Fort Hill, Ward Hill, Fox Hill, Grymes Hill, Emerson Hill, Todt Hill, and Richmond Hill.
• Tallahassee, Florida – Goodwood Plantation, Old Fort Park, Mission San Luis, Old Capitol, The Grove, FAMU (Lee Hall), FSU (Westcott Hall)[23]
• Victoria, Argentina[24]
• Washington, D.C., built on Capitol Hill, Meridian Hill, Floral Hills, Forest Hills, Hillbrook, Hillcrest, and Knox Hill.
• Worcester, Massachusetts, built on Pakachoag (Mount St. James), Sagatabscot (Union Hill), Hancock Hill, Chandler Hill (Belmosy Hill), Green Hill, Bancroft Hill, and Newton Hill[25]
• Yonkers, New York[26][27]

Eurasia​

Asia​

• Shimla, India: the seven hills are Jakhu Hill, Summer Hill, Bantony Hill, Inveram Hill, Elisium Hill, Observatory Hill and Prospect Hill.
• Amman, Jordan:[28] the seven hills are Qusur, Jufa, Taj, Nazha, Nasser, Natheef, and al-Akhdar.[29][30]
• Bhopal, India
• Jerusalem: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
• Macau
• Mecca, Saudi Arabia
• Mumbai Saat Dweep Samuh (now joined, into a peninsula)
• Tehran, Iran
• Kottayam, India
• Thiruvananthapuram, India
• Tirumala, India: One of the hill towns of Tirumala is where the Temple of Seven Hills, the Tirumala Venkateswara, is located. This temple is one of the most active places of worship in the world

 

[TB2]

Europe​

• Aalten, Netherlands. Village (no town privileges) said to be built on seven hills.[31]
• Abergavenny, South Wales, United Kingdom
• Armagh, in Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
• Athens, Greece. The historical seven hills of Athens are Acropolis, Areopagus, Philopappou, Hill of the Nymphs, Pnyx, Lycabettus, and Tourkovounia.
• Bamberg, Bavaria, Germany, The seven hills of Bamberg are; Cathedral Hill, Michaelsberg, Kaulberg/Obere Pfarre, Stefansberg, Jakobsberg, Altenburger Hill, and Abtsberg.
• Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain, is said to be built on Turó del Carmel, Turó de la Rovira, Turó de la Creueta del Coll, Turó de la Peira, Turó del Putxet, Turó de Monterols and Turó de Modolell.[32] Others exclude the latter and include Montjuïc and Mont Tàber, the 17m hill where the Roman city of Barcino was built.[33]
• Bath, England, United Kingdom
• Besançon, France
• Bergamo, Italy
• Bergen, Norway, built not on but between seven mountains. See Seven Mountains, Bergen.
• Bristol, England, United Kingdom[34]
• Brussels, Belgium, said to be built on St. Michielsberg, Koudenberg, Warmoesberg, Kruidtuin, Kunstberg, Zavel and St. Pietersberg
• Bucharest, Romania
• Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy
• Cáceres, Spain[35]
• Chișinău, Moldova
• Durham, England, United Kingdom
• Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom (see Hills of Edinburgh)
• Gorzów Wielkopolski, Poland
• Iaşi, Romania (see Seven hills of Iaşi)
• Istanbul, Turkey (see Seven hills of Istanbul)
• Kaposvár, Hungary
• Kyiv, Ukraine Borichev, Shchekovitsa, Starokievska and Khorevitsa.[36]
• Lisbon, Portugal, São Jorge, São Vicente, Sant’Ana, Santo André, Chagas, Santa Catarina, São Roque
• Lviv, Ukraine
• Liverpool, UK[37]
• Madrid, Spain[38]
• Maribor, Slovenia, seven hills are Pohorje, Kozjak, Kalvarija, Mestni vrh, Piramida, Meljski hrib and Pekrska gorca.
• Moscow, Russia (See Seven hills of Moscow)
• Nijmegen, Netherlands, seven hills within the 16c-19c city wall: Geertruidsberg, Hofberg (Valkhof), Lindenberg, Jansberg, Hundisberg, Hessenberg and Hoofdberg.[39]

 

[TB2]

• Plovdiv, Bulgaria, originally built on seven hills but now only has six due to one being destroyed in the early 20th century (Markovo tepe)
• Plymouth, England, United Kingdom
• Prague, Czech Republic, said to be built on seven or nine hills: Hradčany, Vítkov, (Opyš), Větrov, Skalka, (Emauzy), Vyšehrad, Karlov and Petřín
• Pula, Croatia
• Rome, Italy (see Seven hills of Rome)
• Saint-Étienne, France
• Sandomierz, Poland
• Sheffield, England, United Kingdom
• Siegen, Germany[40]
• Smolensk, Russia
• Telšiai, Lithuania
• Toulon, France
• Tulle, France
• Turku, Finland
• Veszprém, Hungary
• Vilnius, Lithuania
• Vladimir, Russia
• Zevenbergen, Netherlands, Oronyms unknown, except Molenberg[41]

Oceania​

• Brisbane, (Seven Hills), Australia
• Seven Hills, New South Wales, Australia[42

 

[CrowCross]

Nope, I sure don't know best. But I do know what leading scholars on the book of Revelation say

....and other leading scholars say it isn't Rome.

 

[TB2]

....and other leading scholars say it isn't Rome.

My question is how, then, do we determine which of the >90 cities Revelation is referring to?

 

[CrowCross]

My question is how, then, do we determine which of the >90 cities Revelation is referring to?

Personally? I would look at the descriptions of the economy the city is under as well as other geographical hints.

Over the years I have heard several theories....and it doesn't have to be Rome.