"It's All a Matter of Interpretation"

[donadams]

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, ( catholic ) one baptism!

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

[donadams]

This was God speaking in promise to the exiled members of Israel after their Babylonian deportations. God was going to "revive His work in the midst of the years" in the post-exilic return. A revival of the people who would reject their former idol worship took place during that post-exilic return, with God promising that His Spirit would remain among them as they rebuilt the temple and the city.

This was GOD promising to do this spiritual sprinkling of the people to give them a new heart. This was not a literal baptismal rite performed upon them by another man.

Prophecy of the new covenant new birth found in acts 2:38-39

 

[Eleanor]

Then verse 22 is meaningless as well as any teaching or preaching?

Jn 3:22 has nothing to do with Nicodemus, nor did Jesus baptize (Jn 4:1).

 

[donadams]

That's not so. FAITH was just a necessary in the OLD Testament. "Baptism is what you do after you've been Born Again by FAITH.

You say born again by faith?

John 3:5

King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Scripture says water and the spirit!

Confirmed in verse 22

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Thanks​

 

[donadams]

That's not so. FAITH was just a necessary in the OLD Testament. "Baptism is what you do after you've been Born Again by FAITH.

Jn 3:22 has nothing to do with Nicodemus, nor did Jesus baptize (Jn 4:1).

He already delegated to His apostolic church these duties 2 per 1:11 and they continue doing so until He returns in glory

 

[Eleanor]

He already delegated to His apostolic church these duties 2 per 1:11 and they continue doing so until He returns in glory

Not in Jn 1:11 in my Bible.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Faith and baptism are the new covenant requirements of initiation!

The exercise of faith and then the public testimony of water baptism are what is required under the New Covenant after God has regenerated a person to spiritual life.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost." (Titus 3:5). This is not the external washing in any kind of baptistry pool which saves us. It's the washing done by the Spirit internally.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You say born again by faith?

Yup. FAITH (gifted by God) in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross is what gets 'er done. Eph 2:8,9 is VERY specific.

Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

But if you read that passage without your "Catholic Glasses" on, you'll see clearly that the ENTIRE PASSAGE is a comparison between the PHYSICAL LIFE, and the SPIRITUAL LIFE.

Consequently the "Water" in the passage, to be consistent with the context refers to "NATURAL BIRTH", not "baptism".

Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Which was the same as John's "baptism" i.e. a baptism of REPENTANCE performed on adults, who UNDERSTOOD what it was for, and not babies, who don't know where their left ear is.

AND - NOBODY was "Born again" of the Holy Spirit until John 20:22 when the resurrected Jesus BREATHED on them, and imparted the Holy Spirit to them, since they were now CLEANSED of their SIN, and perfect before God.

 

[donadams]

The exercise of faith and then the public testimony of water baptism are what is required under the New Covenant after God has regenerated a person to spiritual life.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost." (Titus 3:5). This is not the external washing in any kind of baptistry pool which saves us. It's the washing done by the Spirit internally.

Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

We cannot see the inward action of grace purifying the soul, so God gave us the outward “sign” of water washing the body to indicate the inward action of grace and connected the two.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)

 

[donadams]

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19






Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

 

[3 Resurrections]

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

You are in love with H2O, more than with the Spirit. The sprinkling by the ritually pure living water in the OT with the ashes of the burnt red heifer dissolved in it was only a physical type looking forward to the superior antitype of the Holy Spirit's actions performed on us internally.

 

[donadams]

It is the actions of water that gives grace and the spirit, water comes first ez 36:25-27 acts 22;16

 

[donadams]

Sacraments are signs that signify what the accomplish!

Baptism washing the soul clean with the grace of the spirit, sanctify grace

Wash / water
Ez 36:25
Jn 3:5
Jn 3:22 river water water everywhere, they did not go preaching fundamentalist tradition of “accept Christ as your personal lord and savior” a phrase not in scripture
Acts 22:16
Titus 3:5

Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

 

[donadams]

If scripture is the “only authority” then there can be no interpretation!

Why did Christ establish the church?

Thanks

 

[prism]

If scripture is the “only authority” then there can be no interpretation!

Why did Christ establish the church?

Thanks

Define 'Church'.

 

[donadams]

Define 'Church'.

The new covenant
The kingdom
The body of christ
The household of faith

 

[Eleanor]

Define 'Church'.

The church are the redeemed, the body and bride of Christ, the called-out assembly of God's people, the adopted sons of God.

 

[prism]

If scripture is the “only authority” then there can be no interpretation!

Why did Christ establish the church?

Thanks

Why can't an author interpret his own material by enlightening his readers of his intended meaning?

 

[Arial]

Sacraments are signs that signify what the accomplish!

When did you last see a stop sign, stop? When has a sign ever been anything other than a sign?

 

[CherubRam]

The word "church" is an interpretation for "assembly" or "congregation." Originally a church was a Roman voting booth.