Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[QVQ]

That’s your way of understanding .....which I have already explained to you...it’s not a big deal.

It was a question about Irresistible Grace as per Op
Eleanor explained it in Post #142
Thank you for your response.

 

[QVQ]

No,

This is me. I never finished it

 

[GeneZ]

The Lord appeared to him from afar, saying,
“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness." Jer 31:3


Those who end up in the Lake of Fire during drawing them ultimately scoffed at the Lord's lovingkindness.

God's Offensive Grace took control over their flesh like an invading army's offensive routes the occupying troops.

In doing so?

God's Offensive Grace overwhelmed the source of resistance (the sin nature) and made that soul free of the sin nature's dominance.

While in that state of Grace? God revealed an aspect of Himself for their soul to have contact with.

That soul in that state was (just like the angels were) free to choose for, or against.. the Lord.

Again? Without grace to lock down the flesh? No one could believe. It takes grace for God to save us.

Grace is not just given at the point of salvation.

The entire process of the God's drawing is God's Offensive Grace.

A major offensive like a strong invading army enemy taking over an occupied territory (the flesh), and locking the sin nature up while the inhabitant of the island (the soul) is given the freedom to choose to whom his allegiance will reside.

Believe it or not... Some see the invading army as repulsive to them personally and will resist coming to the one who just invaded and jailed the dictator (sin nature) of their island.

grace and peace ...................

 

[GeneZ]

The answer is, the reason God gives Totally Depraved Reprobates over to themselves; is because of the power of the Gospel, not because of any power in the Man...

Is the depravity of the one who has not yet believed?
Any different than the depravity of the one who will refuse to believe?

Are both equally depraved before regeneration?

 

[Carbon]

Is the depravity of the one who has not yet believed?
Any different than the depravity of the one who will refuse to believe?

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph 2. What does Eph 2:3 tell you?

Are both equally depraved before regeneration?

See above.

 

[GeneZ]

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph 2. What does Eph 2:3 tell you?

See above.

So God just goes... "Eeni Meeni Minneee Mo?" And picks someone to save without having any reason for His choosing?

Just keep in mind. I am opposed to Arminianism.

 

[Carbon]

So God just goes... "Eeni Meeni Minneee Mo?" And picks someone to save without having any reason for His choosing?

Just keep in mind. I am opposed to Arminianism.

Genez, God chose a bride for Christ. That's a reason. If there are other reasons, you're going to have to ask God. I know it was for His good pleasure. He chose who He would have mercy and grace on.

 

[fastfredy0]

So God just goes... "Eeni Meeni Minneee Mo?" And picks someone to save without having any reason for His choosing?

No.

Romans 9:21 Does the potter not have the right over the clay, to make from the same lump [of clay] one object for honorable use [something beautiful or distinctive] and another for common use [something ordinary or menial]?

Thus God fashions some for heaven and some for hell and thus has a reason.
God has a reason as He is all wise and determines all things. Nothing is random/unknown/unpredictable and thus "Eeni Meeni Minneee Mo" is not part of his methodology.

You know, if you change the pic of yourself you might look more 'astute'. *giggle*

 

[ReverendRV]

Is the depravity of the one who has not yet believed?
Any different than the depravity of the one who will refuse to believe?

Are both equally depraved before regeneration?

Yes...

By the way, Jesus is LORD!

 

[fastfredy0]

Is the depravity of the one who has not yet believed?
Any different than the depravity of the one who will refuse to believe?

Are both equally depraved before regeneration?

Yes...

@ReverendRV ... what's you reasoning?

 

[ReverendRV]

@ReverendRV ... what's you reasoning?

There is no one who does Good, no, not One...

This makes everyone equally Totally Depraved. Arminians and Calvinists agree on this...

 

[GeneZ]

No.

Romans 9:21 Does the potter not have the right over the clay, to make from the same lump [of clay] one object for honorable use [something beautiful or distinctive] and another for common use [something ordinary or menial]?

Thus God fashions some for heaven and some for hell and thus has a reason.
God has a reason as He is all wise and determines all things. Nothing is random/unknown/unpredictable and thus "Eeni Meeni Minneee Mo" is not part of his methodology.

You know, if you change the pic of yourself you might look more 'astute'. *giggle*

Romans 9:21 is about the "wrong doer" trying to blame God for being a wrong doer.

For the potters wheel is about the pressures God puts us all through....

They excuse they make goes something like this....

"How the heck can God blame me for turning out bad? ​

If anyone went through what I did? They would turn out the same way!" ​

In other word.. God in His sovereignty will test every soul by testing with pressures that He decreed will take place!
God in doing so does not make them reject Him. Nor, does He not want anyone to reject Him.

​

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, ​

who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge ​

of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between ​

God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:3-5​

If God simply does all as He pleases, because He is sovereign? All men ( according to 1 Timothy 2:3-5) would therefore be saved!

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, ​

who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge ​

of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between ​

God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.​

In His sovereignty He chooses to provide all the pressures that are needed to make those who are inwardly wrong
with Him to openly reject Him.

They who end up wrong are without excuse. For, what they blame their downfall on? Others were put through the same pressures by God. The other ones, because of the pressures, drew closer to God.

Romans 9:21 was Paul shutting the mouths of excuse makers who wished to blame God for turning out bad.

In Christ ..............

 

[prism]

There is no one who does Good, no, not One...

This makes everyone equally Totally Depraved. Arminians and Calvinists agree on this...

Only thing, Arminians give glory to 'their' choosing Him. It comes through loud and clear in their own testimonies of how they were saved.

 

[ReverendRV]

Only thing, Arminians give glory to 'their' choosing Him. It comes through loud and clear in their own testimonies of how they were saved.

If you ask an Arminian, they'll tell you they give all Glory to God...

 

[fastfredy0]

There is no one who does Good, no, not One...

This makes everyone equally Totally Depraved. Arminians and Calvinists agree on this...

Agreed .... but that does not answer the other part of the question at hand which IMO is:

Is the depravity of the one who has not yet believed?
Any different than the depravity of the one who will refuse to believe?

I think there's 2 questions. I was thinking about the first one.

 

[fastfredy0]

Romans 9:21 is about the "wrong doer" trying to blame God for being a wrong doer.

ROmans 9:21 is what is says ... God is the potter and we are the clay. He molds us as he pleases. This is the relevant point.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:3-5
If God simply does all as He pleases, because He is sovereign? All men ( according to 1 Timothy 2:3-5) would therefore be saved!

The long explanation is 300ish words....the short explanation is that the word ALL is ambiguous .. it does not mean everyone without exception; rather, everyone without distinction.

In His sovereignty He chooses to provide all the pressures that are needed to make those who are inwardly wrong
with Him to openly reject Him.

They who end up wrong are without excuse. For, what they blame their downfall on? Others were put through the same pressures by God. The other ones, because of the pressures, drew closer to God.

This is dualism and/or deism. You assume man has powers that God did not give them. Again, God is the potter and we are simply the result of the God (the first cause) ..... we are NEVER the first cause.

 

[prism]

If you ask an Arminian, they'll tell you they give all Glory to God...

Yes, but then they proceed to tell you how 'they' came to Jesus.
Besides, if they give all glory to God they are probably crypto-Calvinists. lol

 

[ReverendRV]

Agreed .... but that does not answer the other part of the question at hand which IMO is:

I think there's 2 questions. I was thinking about the first one.

No...

Total Depravity is about percentages of our Being, so Total Depravity is about the Totality of our Being; %100 percent of our Being is touched by Sin. In this sense, All are Totality Depraved before they're Born Again. Mother Teresa and the Boston Strangler were both Totality Depraved...

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes, but then they proceed to tell you how 'they' came to Jesus.
Besides, if they give all glory to God they are probably crypto-Calvinists. lol

I came to Christ through my Faith; I'm a 5-Point Calvinist...

 

[prism]

I came to Christ through my Faith; I'm a 5-Point Calvinist...

Ok, I thought faith was a gift that came by hearing God's Word. How did it become your faith?