Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[Ritajanice]

Why should we always be preaching the Gospel to the already saved?

That's the problem with way too many churches. They never grow. All they ever get is the Gospel at church and no teaching that advances very far.

Or, they stick to some basic denominational doctrines that can not sustain a Christian who will remain afraid to mature because they would not be able to resist the demonic realm that fiercely resists where genuine spiritual growth is becoming evident. That is when the meaning of "suffering for righteousness sake" takes on meaning and significance.

Besides! It does not say preach the Gospel in and out of season!

It says this..

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, ​

with complete patience and teaching." 2 Timothy 4:2​

That means we need to get into The Word of God. First by praying for a good teacher that God raised up (who can lead those so inclined by grace) to desire reaching full maturity in Christ. Dwelling on the same controversial pet doctrines all the time? Is like one running in place when God wants all believers to get somewhere to advance to the point of blessing He wishes to bestow.

...............

What is a mature born again ?

And....whose to say who is mature and who isn’t.....?

 

[Ritajanice]

It is a human way of looking at it.

Nothing wrong with that as long as it makes you know what was said can not satisfy the question that needs to be answered.

Ok....

 

[GeneZ]

What is a mature born again ?

And....whose to say who is mature and who isn’t.....?

The Lord makes it known.

It takes Divine guidance in finding a good pastor. One who is a full time student of God's Word.

​

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, ​

and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work ​

of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity ​

of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, and become mature, ​

attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. " Ephesians 4:11-13​

Apostles and prophets were a temporary gift needed for the Church in its infancy.

What remains with us for today are evangelists and pastor-teachers.

grace and peace ...............

 

[Ritajanice]

So what's hiding behind the big D?

Or do you exempt yourself from hiding behind your avatar as you accuse others of doing?

I don’t think he’s hiding, he made a comment...none of us are perfect......which imo...some have made a big deal out of it.....

 

[Ritajanice]

and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ

What is the fullness of Christ?
Is it this?

The fullness of Christ is the church actually being all that God intends it to be, the people of God together, fully alive and flourishing, fully like Christ.


What’s also Bible knowledge...Without the Holy Spirit?

Do you think that there are pastors/ priests out there, who preach the word..went to bible college got their degrees...does that make them Born Again?....because of all the bible knowledge they have.

 

[Ritajanice]

Takes a lot of study of the bible and/or teachers for one to have a chance to sort it out. This assumes one sorted it out. God loves everyone is appealing.... and God has to give everyone a chance to be fair is appealing.

Are you saying that it takes a lot of study to actually know that God exists ?

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I don’t think he’s hiding, he made a comment...none of us are perfect......which imo...some have made a big deal out of it.....

I'm not hiding. That is my actual name, unlike the comedian.

 

[Arial]

YES!

(The one on the left ain't shabby either.)

I actually prefer the one on the left but wanted to get out ahead of the remarks if I didn't specify.

 

[Carbon]

OK... we agree that God chose out of all whom He knew would believe?

We agree on that? Really? Where did I say such a thing? I do not agree with that at all.

Out of all, only some to be His Bride.
Those whom He chose in Him to be His Bride, He predestined to be living and believe during the church age.

That depends. What do you consider the church age?

Moses is an example of a wonderful believer whom God did not choose in Him before the foundations of the world
to be born during the Church age. Moses is to be a friend of the groom, not to be His bride.

And where do you get these teachings from? Not the Bible, that’s for sure.

 

[Arial]

So God just goes... "Eeni Meeni Minneee Mo?" And picks someone to save without having any reason for His choosing?

Just keep in mind. I am opposed to Arminianism.

Why would you look at it in those terms? If we know God even a little we know He never does anything in a "eeini meeni minee mo" way. So certainly the doctrine of election does not present election in that way.


Rather than jumping to unthought out conclusions, it would be far better to find out what the Calvinist view actually is and how it arrived at that view.

If one starts elementary math firmly believing that 1+1=3, and refuses to budge from that belief no matter what is said or what they are shown that says no it isn't 3 it is 2, every math problem they ever attempt to solve will be wrong.

 

[Arial]

They who end up wrong are without excuse. For, what they blame their downfall on? Others were put through the same pressures by God. The other ones, because of the pressures, drew closer to God.

Romans 9:21 was Paul shutting the mouths of excuse makers who wished to blame God for turning out bad.

Paul was shutting the mouths of those who would shake their fist at God and cry "It is not fair!" Even though, as Paul points out, God Himself said, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will harden who I harden."

 

[Arial]

Agreed .... but that does not answer the other part of the question at hand which IMO is:

I think there's 2 questions. I was thinking about the first one.

Eph 2


1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

We are all in the same boat before being placed in Christ.

 

[Arial]

So, my point is...he chooses who he chooses...because he can see the heart, he knows everyone’s heart, he could even choose a murderer, whoever he pleases.....is it about turning that person around back to where they came from, God?

So God chooses based on what He sees in a person of value? We all have hard hearts towards God until He removes that heart of stone and gives us a heart moldable and pliable in His hands. A soft heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

So God chooses based on what He sees in a person of value? We all have hard hearts towards God until He removes that heart of stone and gives us a heart moldable and pliable in His hands. A soft heart.

God looks at the heart ..he doesn’t look at intellectual knowledge,( what one knows)...

I didn’t say he chooses on what he sees...he judges the heart....he opens the heart, he softens the heart..to receive his “ Living” word....much more to it than that....all out of his mercy ,love and grace towards us....we deserve none of it...obviously he does what ever is pleasing to him and has plans to use his children as he pleases.

 

[prism]

God looks at the heart ..he doesn’t look at intellectual knowledge,( what one knows)...

I didn’t say he chooses on what he sees...he judges the heart....he opens the heart, he softens the heart..to receive his “ Living” word....much more to it than that....all out of his mercy ,love and grace towards us....we deserve none of it...obviously he does what ever is pleasing to him and has plans to use his children as he pleases.

Isn't this what He sees?...

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

 

[fastfredy0]

Are you saying that it takes a lot of study to actually know that God exists ?

No. Romans 1:19-23 says that even the heathen who never heard of Christ know God exists and are without excuse.

Now, to know God well relative to other Christians takes study and that assumes you are studying good Christian literature (a lot of Christian books are trash).

 

[Arial]

God looks at the heart ..he doesn’t look at intellectual knowledge,(

Of course He doesn't judge according to intellectual knowledge. Nevertheless we do have to have some knowledge for what does not enter our mind first, cannot enter our heart. That does not mean we have to have all knowledge or that we ever will. But the more knowledge we have the more it can enter our heart.

On the other hand, we can also have much knowledge and none of it ever enter our heart. That would be a heart not changed by God. We can also give so much praise to our own knowledge we forget that what we have, we have because God gave it, through the Holy Spirit by His word, and grow cold in our first love. That would be pride and arrogance.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

No. Romans 1:19-23 says that even the heathen who never heard of Christ know God exists and are without excuse.

Now, to know God well relative to other Christians takes study and that assumes you are studying good Christian literature (a lot of Christian books are trash).

I think there's a caveat. Everybody knows there's a God (general revelation). Not everybody has experienced the only one and true God (special revelation). Atheists often complain that God hasn't given them a Damascus Road type of experience (not that I think they are serious and honest with their arguments).

 

[Ritajanice]

Of course He doesn't judge according to intellectual knowledge. Nevertheless we do have to have some knowledge for what does not enter our mind first, cannot enter our heart. That does not mean we have to have all knowledge or that we ever will. But the more knowledge we have the more it can enter our heart.

You don’t need knowledge for the Holy Spirit to enter your heart...nor the Bible..when God decides to birth you in the Spirit he will.

On the other hand, we can also have much knowledge and none of it ever enter our heart. That would be a heart not changed by God. We can also give so much praise to our own knowledge we forget that what we have, we have because God gave it, through the Holy Spirit by His word, and grow cold in our first love. That would be pride and arrogance.

Indeed without heart knowledge, imo..one might as well be dead..in fact one is dead...we need both.

The rebirth is vital..without it..there is no life..once we have been birthed then we can start to feed on the word of God.even then it’s not guaranteed that one grows straight away.i know I didn’t...I knew I was Born Again..that’s all I knew..growing is in God’s timing not mine.

 

[prism]

No. Romans 1:19-23 says that even the heathen who never heard of Christ know God exists and are without excuse.

Now, to know God well relative to other Christians takes study and that assumes you are studying good Christian literature (a lot of Christian books are trash).

There's always this (but not as an excuse not to study)...

Acts 4:13
When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they marveled and took note that these men had been with Jesus.