Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[Eleanor]

Are we judged for Adam's sin or for our own sins? Are the unredeemed paying for Adam's sin or their own? The imputed sin of Adam to us is an external quality, the ruin of our standing before God. An objective reckoning. Original sin is the ruin of our character--internal.

Is not all that irrelevant?

All that matters is whether one is guilty or not, whether Christ has paid one's sin debt or not.

Christ paid for all our sin and guilt, and judgment is separation from God for eternity, regardless.

 

[Carbon]

And of course, Iain Murray.

​

If anyone gets a chance, watch this video, it's a classic.

 

[Eleanor]

Just as you mentioned, our being responsible for Adam's sin. Did God design that before Adam sinned?

Good question. . .keep them up and you will get back to God's purpose in all creation.

God designed
1) that all would be locked up in sin, no exceptions,
2) that there would be only one way out, his mercy,
3) that such mercy would come at the price of the brutal bloody sacrifice of his Son,
4) that his mercy would be available only to those who believed in and trusted on that Son and his sacrifice for his mercy.

 

[prism]

Good question. . .keep them up and you will get back to God's purpose in all creation.

Thx, but I'm already in His purpose.

 

[Eleanor]

Thx, but I'm already in His purpose.

As are we all.

Is there a larger purpose?

 

[fastfredy0]

One of my favorites of Voddie, and it is older, also one of the first ones I saw, is The Rescuer. That is worth a watch, Let me know if you see it what you think. Hey I'll post it here.

The wife is a Voddie fan so she watched it with me. Near the beginning Voddie said something about a 'special spot' in the Old Testament that reveals Christ and he said the O.T. was all about Christ (something like that ... I don't recall exact words). Anyways, I stopped the sermon and turned to the wife and said... "Gee, what book of the O.T. do you think he going to". She didn't have a guess and I guessed Isaiah.
Anyways, he spoke of Joseph and related back to Christ. If was almost like unraveling a parable. What he said fit, I agreed that Christ is the rescuer and the story could be related to Christ. I'm always cautious when doing types/anti-types and going to far. I've heard before of the Jospeph/Christ type/anti-type.
So, Voddie is a great orator and it was moving to see tears running down his face and kewl to see his admiration of Sproul which was overshadowed by his admiration of God.
We enjoyed it. Thanks

Still have to watch The Flash later ...

 

[fastfredy0]

Re: Watching Voddie's sermon right away

Yes @fastfredy0 I think you should watch it now.

Priorities man!

Stop nagging me... it's like having 3 wives.
View attachment 412

 

[Arial]

The wife is a Voddie fan so she watched it with me. Near the beginning Voddie said something about a 'special spot' in the Old Testament that reveals Christ and he said the O.T. was all about Christ (something like that ... I don't recall exact words). Anyways, I stopped the sermon and turned to the wife and said... "Gee, what book of the O.T. do you think he going to". She didn't have a guess and I guessed Isaiah.
Anyways, he spoke of Joseph and related back to Christ. If was almost like unraveling a parable. What he said fit, I agreed that Christ is the rescuer and the story could be related to Christ. I'm always cautious when doing types/anti-types and going to far. I've heard before of the Jospeph/Christ type/anti-type.
So, Voddie is a great orator and it was moving to see tears running down his face and kewl to see his admiration of Sproul which was overshadowed by his admiration of God.
We enjoyed it. Thanks

Still have to watch The Flash later ...

What is interesting about the Joseph story ----and I don't know if it was in this video or another---is yes there is a type of Christ there, but what God is protecting is the Seed bearer----Judah. I don't recall his admiration of Sproul overshadowing his admiration of God. That whole thing was exalting Jesus and I loved seeing Him as the rescuer. Snatching us out of the kingdom of darkness, breaking the chains that bind us, taking us right out of the enemies hands, helpless, hopeless people that we are. Bringing us into the light and into His kingdom.


Also I like Voddies humor. The different kinds of rescuers. Who do you call when someone is breaking into your house? In his house (and mine) the ambulance. Then he tells his wife to go get her gun and he goes to get his.

Voddie has pulled two or three sermons from the Joseph story, from completely different angles, each presenting different truths.

 

[fastfredy0]

I don't recall his admiration of Sproul overshadowing his admiration of God.

I meant Voddie's admiration for God overshadowed (was much greater than) for Sproul.... definitely
... guess I phrased it poorly

 

[Arial]

If anyone gets a chance, watch this video, it's a classic.

I'll give it a go in the morning. Too many irons in the fire right now.

 

[Arial]

I have no idea to what "wording" you refer

*What is clear throughout the NT is that believers who are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit still experience other works and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will "fall" on them, and inspire spontaneous outbursts of praise and worship, or lead them to prophesy. The Spirit will guide them in evangelism efforts. The Spirit will warn and direct them in dreams and visios. We see believers operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Believers are told to fan into flame the gift received by the laying on of hands. Believes are warned not to quench or grieve the Spirit. And yes, the Spirit is involved in sanctification too and the gifts of the Spirit.

Charismatics use the very same wordage--down to manifestations of the Spirit---to give credibility to what goes on in their meetings. And they mean something entirely different from what we find in the Bible.

 

[Arial]

I meant Voddie's admiration for God overshadowed (was much greater than) for Sproul.... definitely
... guess I phrased it poorly

Got it.

 

[TB2]

Charismatics use the very same wordage--down to manifestations of the Spirit---to give credibility to what goes on in their meetings. And they mean something entirely different from what we find in the Bible

I can't speak to that. Nor do I suspect can you speak to every abuse of the terms beyond your own experience

*What is clear throughout the NT is that believers who are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit still experience other works and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will "fall" on them, and inspire spontaneous outbursts of praise and worship, or lead them to prophesy. The Spirit will guide them in evangelism efforts. The Spirit will warn and direct them in dreams and visios. We see believers operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Believers are told to fan into flame the gift received by the laying on of hands. Believes are warned not to quench or grieve the Spirit. And yes, the Spirit is involved in sanctification too and the gifts of the Spirit.

Charismatics use the very same wordage--down to manifestations of the Spirit---to give credibility to what goes on in their meetings. And they mean something entirely different from what we find in the Bible.

Of that I can't say; nor do I suspect can you beyond the negative experiences you've had. But we still must be careful not to let abuses or hypocrisy send us to the other extreme, especially in light of what Scripture says

 

[prism]

As are we all.

Is there a larger purpose?

Larger than eternal? I doubt it

 

[Ritajanice]

Brought from Death to Life

The Lord told Nicodemus unequivocally, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). Only the Spirit of the living God can take dry bones, dead in trespasses and rebellion against God, and make them spiritually alive (Ephesians 2:1-5).

Ephesians 2:1-5

King James Version

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2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[Eleanor]

Larger than eternal? I doubt it

Can his purpose not be larger without being longer than eternal?

 

[prism]

Can his purpose not be larger without being longer than eternal?

Whether larger or longer, it can't exceed what's eternal. That's math 101

 

[atpollard]

Whether larger or longer, it can't exceed what's eternal. That's math 101

Is this an issue with the DOG or more of a philosophical question ... like what happens if you square infinity?

 

[fastfredy0]

like what happens if you square infinity?

maybe we'll learn how to answer this in heaven ?
*snicker*

@Odë:hgöd is doing reports on how many people entered help every 3ish days ... he could figure it out

 

[Ritajanice]

maybe we'll learn how to answer this in heaven ?
*snicker*

@Odë:hgöd is doing reports on how many people entered help every 3ish days ... he could figure it out

“Snicker.” is a chocolate bar , here in the UK..