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Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

Try Voddie Baucham.
Yeah, I like him that little I've heard him. I was suppose to see him live 4ish months ago, but the church was full so I drove back home.
I've got John MacAuthur as favorite living theologian ... but that's subject to change.
 
Voddie is Awesome! But my favorite living is Sinclair Ferguson
I saw a show with Sproul and Ferguson and Sproul seemed to imply that he held Ferguson a step above the others.... or so it seemed to me. Sproul didn't put it that way, but I got that impression.
 
I saw a show with Sproul and Ferguson and Sproul seemed to imply that he held Ferguson a step above the others.... or so it seemed to me. Sproul didn't put it that way, but I got that impression.
Another one of my favorites was, James Boice.
 
Another one of my favorites was, James Boice.
Hey.... I don't think the definition "Favorite" allows for more than one ... *giggle*
Make the list of favorites long enough and Joel Osteen might make the list *ducks for cover*
 
Hey.... I don't think the definition "Favorite" allows for more than one ... *giggle*
Make the list of favorites long enough and Joel Osteen might make the list *ducks for cover*
I could never pick a favorite. So, there is a list of them. And it sure doesn't contain Osteen :sick:.
 
Yeah, I like him that little I've heard him. I was suppose to see him live 4ish months ago, but the church was full so I drove back home.
I've got John MacAuthur as favorite living theologian ... but that's subject to change.
I cut my teeth on his audio exposition of the whole gospel of Matthew.
 
I cut my teeth on his audio exposition of the whole gospel of Matthew.
I've got MacArthur's New Testament Commentary .... he's long winded in it, but I like it most times
 
Actually I did not. I was referencing events attested in Scripture
Yes my experience raises the hackles when I see the same wording they use to justify the displays. And yes, I was a bit heavy handed in my response.
*So, yes, we agree there is only one initial indwelling, but that is not the end but the beginning of the Spirit's work in our lives, ethically but also in other ways. However one wants to phrase it, anointing, infilling, falling, refreshing, etc... I often suspect we don't have the vocabulary to adequately describe God's supernatural work... But whatever words we use, however one tries to describe it, what seems clear in the NT is that believers didn't simply receive the Spirit in an academic way, but in a real, tangible, empowering, life changing transformative way that continued after their first reception of the Spirit.
I have never denied any of this, and when I speak of there being no subsequent "fillings" by the Holy Spirit I am not referring to the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. I suspect we are on a parallel track right now, you and I in this conversation, where we actually agree in what we are presenting but have two different pictures in our mind. In my mind the filling is linked to the distinction that is made in charismatic circles between the innitain infilling and frequent baptisms in the Holy Spirit, with speaking in tongues and wild and crazy displays of emotion and foolishness, that are seen as being the Holy Spirit on them, when it is nothing but the flesh. It is counted as being super spiritual.
 
Yeah, I like him that little I've heard him. I was suppose to see him live 4ish months ago, but the church was full so I drove back home.
I've got John MacAuthur as favorite living theologian ... but that's subject to change.
One of my favorites of Voddie, and it is older, also one of the first ones I saw, is The Rescuer. That is worth a watch, Let me know if you see it what you think. Hey I'll post it here.
 
One of my favorites of Voddie, and it is older, also one of the first ones I saw, is The Rescuer. That is worth a watch, Let me know if you see it what you think. Hey I'll post it here.
Thanks ... I'll take a look ... probably tomorrow... have to finish watching THE FLASH tonight... *smile*
 
However, that is not what imputation means. It means that we are accounted guilty of Adam's sin.
Are we judged for Adam's sin or for our own sins? Are the unredeemed paying for Adam's sin or their own? The imputed sin of Adam to us is an external quality, the ruin of our standing before God. An objective reckoning. Original sin is the ruin of our character--internal.
 
Thanks ... I'll take a look ... probably tomorrow... have to finish watching THE FLASH tonight... *smile*
Priorities man! Just kidding.
 
Yes my experience raises the hackles when I see the same wording they use to justify the displays. And yes, I was a bit heavy handed in my response
I have no idea to what "wording" you refer
In my mind the filling is linked to the distinction that is made in charismatic circles between the innitain infilling and frequent baptisms in the Holy Spirit, with speaking in tongues and wild and crazy displays of emotion and foolishness, that are seen as being the Holy Spirit on them, when it is nothing but the flesh. It is counted as being super spiritual.
We see abuses in every denomination and major branch of Christianity whether Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox. But we must be careful not to let hypocrisy and abuses by others push us to the other extreme of throwing the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit out with the proverbial bathwater. I've seen many of the abuses you describe. I've also seen the 'real thing.' To me it's not a charismatic vs non-charismatic thing, but God's empowering presence available to *all* believers of every denomination.

I recommend NT scholar Gordon Fee's book by the same title: God's Empowering Presence; a 992 page exegetical tome on every reference to the Spirit in the Pauline epistles. Here's one review (the part in red is 'my view' based on exegesis of Scripture):

"Fee's book is the most comprehensive treatment available of Paul's understanding of the Holy Spirit, a topic that has rarely received sufficient attention in studies of Pauline theology. Fee's method is exemplary: he first analyzes Paul's statements about the Spirit, in each individual letter, and then moves to a synthesis of Paul's general pneumatology. The result is a book that is deeply exegetical, doing justice both to the particularity of Paul's writings and to the fundamental unity of his vision for the Spirit's role in the life of the Christian community. Most importantly, Fee emphasizes insistently that the Holy Spirit must be experienced as a living presence within the church. That message is both faithful to Paul and urgent for the community of faith in our time."--Richard B. Hays, professor of New Testament, Duke University Divinity School."
 
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