Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[Arial]

Being filled in the Spirit, does not say in God’s word that it equates to being birthed in the Spirit .

Neither did I or anyone. The Holy Spirit causes the new birth which applies the work of Christ to the one rebirthed and at the same time indwells them. They happen together but are distinct.

 

[Carbon]

I haven't watched many of his sermons. Have learned so much from Sproul and Voddie and new videos keep turning up on youtube, that I haven't moved past them much yet. But I will check out Ferguson.

Well, you can't go wrong with Sproul or Voddie. Sprould was probably my favorite. But Ferguson is just as good. Matter of fact he was Sproul's favorite theologian.

 

[Arial]

Well, you can't go wrong with Sproul or Voddie. Sprould was probably my favorite. But Ferguson is just as good. Matter of fact he was Sproul's favorite theologian.

Is he Scottish with a heavy brogue? If so I have seen a couple and they are very good.

 

[prism]

Is he Scottish with a heavy brogue? If so I have seen a couple and they are very good.

Lloyd Jones (Welsh) doesn't have a heavy brogue, he's been my EDC for years.

 

[Ritajanice]

Neither did I or anyone. The Holy Spirit causes the new birth which applies the work of Christ to the one rebirthed and at the same time indwells them. They happen together but are distinct.

We are birthed in the Spirit ..he has taken up residence, by the rebirth...Spirit gives birth to Spirit..we are saved, at the same time we are birthed...then the sanctification process starts, because we have been birthed in the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit births us...he does the will of the Father...

 

[Ritajanice]

Since there is one being filled with the Spirit given in the NT, and the Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit at conversion

Filled with the Holy Spirit at conversion?

 

[Arial]

We are birthed in the Spirit ..he has taken up residence, by the rebirth...Spirit gives birth to Spirit..we are saved, at the same time we are birthed...then the sanctification process starts, because we have been birthed in the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit births us...he does the will of the Father...

We have been birthed by the Spirit in Christ----union with Him. Spirit does not give birth to Spirit. Spirit gives birth to our spirit.
God sends the Son
The Son does the work of redemption.
The Holy Spirit applies that work to a person, (new birth), indwells that person, seals and sanctifies that person.

 

[Eleanor]

No avatar?

Loosely used. . .no picture.

You're supposed to hear what I mean, not just what I say.

 

[Eleanor]

..I was thinking that..

Time for me to retire.

 

[Ritajanice]

We have been birthed by the Spirit in Christ----union with Him. Spirit does not give birth to Spirit. Spirit gives birth to our spirit.
God sends the Son
The Son does the work of redemption.
The Holy Spirit applies that work to a person, (new birth), indwells that person, seals and sanctifies that person.

Our spirit has been birthed into Christ Spirit..by the power of the Holy Spirit......” Spirit gives birth to spirit “.......the Living supernatural birth.

Our spirit is at ONE with HIS Spirit.
Galatians 3:27-28

27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.18

John 31 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [1] "4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [2] gives birth to spirit.
The Lord told Nicodemus unequivocally, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6).

John 3:6 in Other Translations​

KJV
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
ESV
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
NLT
6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.
MSG
6 When you look at a baby, it's just that: a body you can look at and touch. But the person who takes shape within is formed by something you can't see and touch - the Spirit - and becomes a living spirit.

 

[Carbon]

Time for me to retire.

Nope. You cant go anywhere. Sorry.

 

[Ritajanice]

We have been birthed by the Spirit in Christ-

Can you show me scripture where it says this please?

I’ve already posted scripture...where it says “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “....I can’t see any scripture where it says “ we have been birthed by the Spirit of Christ “

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ 1 Corinthians 6:17 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit. New Living Translation But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him. English Standard Version But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Berean Standard Bible But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit. Berean Literal Bible But the one being joined to the Lord is one spirit. King James Bible But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. New King James Version But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

 

[TB2]

It doesn't say filling, it says filled.

It says "be filled" in the present tense indicating we are supposed to be filled continually. It is not a one time event

and no where does the scripture speak of the need for subsequent infillings by the Spirit

And yet Ephesians 5.18 does (!) and not only says it but commands it

it is most likely that being filled with the Spirit (not by the Spirit) refers to the imperatives given for those who are the children of God, and relates to obedience to the Spirit

And yet the result of being continually filled is associated with Spirit inspired worship as we see from the verse that follows v19.

*What is clear throughout the NT is that believers who are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit still experience other works and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will "fall" on them, and inspire spontaneous outbursts of praise and worship, or lead them to prophesy. The Spirit will guide them in evangelism efforts. The Spirit will warn and direct them in dreams and visios. We see believers operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Believers are told to fan into flame the gift received by the laying on of hands. Believes are warned not to quench or grieve the Spirit. And yes, the Spirit is involved in sanctification too and the gifts of the Spirit.

*What is unmistakable is that unlike today with our rather forensic, academic theological analysis of how the Spirit does this and that, we see in the NT that the Spirit is not an academic matter, but a real, tangible empowering Presence in the life of believer. The Spirit is not simply received and that's it (as if the Spirit now just passively resides in us), but the Spirit is God's empowering Presence actively at work in the lives of believers throughout our lives. For Paul, the Christian life is all about life in the Spirit

*So, yes, we agree there is only one initial indwelling, but that is not the end but the beginning of the Spirit's work in our lives, ethically but also in other ways. However one wants to phrase it, anointing, infilling, falling, refreshing, etc... I often suspect we don't have the vocabulary to adequately describe God's supernatural work... But whatever words we use, however one tries to describe it, what seems clear in the NT is that believers didn't simply receive the Spirit in an academic way, but in a real, tangible, empowering, life changing transformative way that continued after their first reception of the Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

It says "be filled" in the present tense indicating we are supposed to be filled continually. It is not a one time event

And yet Ephesians 5.18 does (!) and not only says it but commands it

And yet the result of being continually filled is associated with Spirit inspired worship as we see from the verse that follows v19.

*What is clear throughout the NT is that believers who are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit still experience other works and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will "fall" on them, and inspire spontaneous outbursts of praise and worship, or lead them to prophesy. The Spirit will guide them in evangelism efforts. The Spirit will warn and direct them in dreams and visios. We see believers operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Believers are told to fan into flame the gift received by the laying on of hands. Believes are warned not to quench or grieve the Spirit. And yes, the Spirit is involved in sanctification too and the gifts of the Spirit.

*What is unmistakable is that unlike today with our rather forensic, academic theological analysis of how the Spirit does this and that, we see in the NT that the Spirit is not an academic matter, but a real, tangible empowering Presence in the life of believer. The Spirit is not simply received and that's it (as if the Spirit now just passively resides in us), but the Spirit is God's empowering Presence actively at work in the lives of believers throughout our lives. For Paul, the Christian life is all about life in the Spirit

*So, yes, we agree there is only one initial indwelling, but that is not the end but the beginning of the Spirit's work in our lives, ethically but also in other ways. However one wants to phrase it, anointing, infilling, falling, refreshing, etc... I often suspect we don't have the vocabulary to adequately describe God's supernatural work... But whatever words we use, however one tries to describe it, what seems clear in the NT is that believers didn't simply receive the Spirit in an academic way, but in a real, tangible, empowering, life changing transformative way that continued after their first reception of the Spirit.

Excellent...Hallelujah!...Amen!!

 

[prism]

6a Humans can reproduce only human life,
MSG

Well, we're still trying.

 

[Arial]

Can you show me scripture where it says this please?

I’ve already posted scripture...where it says “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “....I can’t see any scripture where it says “ we have been birthed by the Spirit of Christ “

I said birthed by the Spirit IN Christ. Specified that meant joined to Him. The Bible says many times we are IN Christ. That refers to our union with HIm through faith. But the Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Christ. (Romans 8:9; 1 Peter 1:11: Gal 4:6 etc)

 

[Ritajanice]

I said birthed by the Spirit IN Christ. Specified that meant joined to Him. The Bible says many times we are IN Christ. That refers to our union with HIm through faith. But the Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Christ. (Romans 8:9; 1 Peter 1:11: Gal 4:6 etc)

Saying being birthed by the Spirit IN Christ ..is not in scripture...you said ..spirit gives birth to spirit..is not scriptural...?

I said I can’t find anywhere in scripture where it says....being birthed by the Spirit in Christ...I asked for that scripture that was all?..Romans 8:9 is saying we are in the realms of the Spirit.

Romans 8:9​

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

1 Peter 1:11 in Other Translations​

KJV
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

KJV
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 

[Arial]

It says "be filled" in the present tense indicating we are supposed to be filled continually. It is not a one time event

And yet Ephesians 5.18 does (!) and not only says it but commands it

And yet the result of being continually filled is associated with Spirit inspired worship as we see from the verse that follows v19.

*What is clear throughout the NT is that believers who are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit still experience other works and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will "fall" on them, and inspire spontaneous outbursts of praise and worship, or lead them to prophesy. The Spirit will guide them in evangelism efforts. The Spirit will warn and direct them in dreams and visios. We see believers operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Believers are told to fan into flame the gift received by the laying on of hands. Believes are warned not to quench or grieve the Spirit. And yes, the Spirit is involved in sanctification too and the gifts of the Spirit.

*What is unmistakable is that unlike today with our rather forensic, academic theological analysis of how the Spirit does this and that, we see in the NT that the Spirit is not an academic matter, but a real, tangible empowering Presence in the life of believer. The Spirit is not simply received and that's it (as if the Spirit now just passively resides in us), but the Spirit is God's empowering Presence actively at work in the lives of believers throughout our lives. For Paul, the Christian life is all about life in the Spirit

*So, yes, we agree there is only one initial indwelling, but that is not the end but the beginning of the Spirit's work in our lives, ethically but also in other ways. However one wants to phrase it, anointing, infilling, falling, refreshing, etc... I often suspect we don't have the vocabulary to adequately describe God's supernatural work... But whatever words we use, however one tries to describe it, what seems clear in the NT is that believers didn't simply receive the Spirit in an academic way, but in a real, tangible, empowering, life changing transformative way that continued after their first reception of the Spirit.

Well have it your way. There's no convincing a full blown charismatic any different. They have EXPERIENCED! it. They have PROOF!

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, in a way that keeps intact man's responsibility.

How, in terms of your meaning of responsibility, is man responsible for Adam's sin imputed to man (Ro 5:12-14), which condemns him (Ro 5:18)?