Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[Ritajanice]

Testings are pressures that God has arranged for us to go through. It can be simple every day things, or the powerful testings as witnessed to by Job.

Sorry, I was not notified of your post to me.

Amen!!..to above.

Testings are God's quality control check to see if we are, or are not, living according to sound doctrine. If we desire false doctrine?
Doctrine that is designed to get us living by our emotions? We will keep failing the quality control tests. If we accept sound doctrine? Doctrine which the Holy Spirit can make Himself one with us in our experience? We will find ourselves receiving the grace needed for passing the tests.

Absolutely!!...Amen!!

The tests God gives us are to see if what we have chosen to believe (our faith) is genuine (sound) or false, emotion driven concepts.
For false doctrines are deviously designed to appeal to the emotional patterns of believers who are walking in their flesh. False doctrine simply sits right with their own way of thinking. False doctrines are all over the map to appeal to many different people. But, sound doctrine is always one way. Sound doctrine therefore requires we take up our own cross and deny self to follow Him.

Excellent!...Amen!!

Here is why testings must come.

In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief ​

in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of ​

greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, ​

glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. ​

​

Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, ​

you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving ​

the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:6-9​

It’s getting better...Amen!!.....all confirmed to me through the Spirit...thank you for taking the time to explain @GeneZ .....

One pastor I learn from taught us from the Greek text. He rendered the last verse this way...

Having received back with interest, the ultimate destiny of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.​

We will end up with more than what we began with after testings when our faith is proven genuine.

Hallelujah!! Amen!!

Grace and peace ............

 

[Ritajanice]

100 Bible Verses aboutLiving Faith​

Galatians 2:20 ESV / 33 helpful votes​

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

James 2:14-26 ESV / 28 helpful votes​

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...

2 Corinthians 5:7 ESV / 25 helpful votes​

For we walk by faith, not by sight.

Ephesians 2:8 ESV / 23 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Romans 10:17 ESV / 21 helpful votes​

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Romans 1:17 ESV / 20 helpful votes​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Hebrews 11:1 ESV / 18 helpful votes​

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Matthew 5:16 ESV / 18 helpful votes​

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Hebrews 11:6 ESV / 17 helpful votes​

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him

 

[Ritajanice]

Look here..verse 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh,that he should give eternal life to as many as thou HAST GIVEN HIM...​

Talking about the Born Again here.​

John 17​

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King James Version​

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17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them

 

[Arial]

How so?

There does seem a difference between indwelling and filling. Ephesians 5.18

18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit

"Be filled" is in the imperative mood (a command, directive) and the present tense indicating we are to be continually filled with the Spirit. Paul is also speaking to believers already indwelt by the Spirit.

We are indwelt by the Spirit at conversion. He does not leave us. The "be filled" Paul says does not refer to subsequent events of "infilling" but to the ongoing sanctification by the Holy Spirit. Our responsibility in this as is made clear by the instructions given, is to live a life worthy of our calling, not as the world lives, in disobedience.

 

[GeneZ]

As I read the quote above your response, I'm just shocked at the novelty and unbiblical nature of the comments. Yikes!

Instead of asking questions to find out what it is you have not yet learned about?

You reject...

 

[Arial]

How about 100% in control?

In another word, governed. God governs His creation.

 

[Eleanor]

R.C. was my favorite living theologian...then he goes and dies on me. I have to pick a new favorite.

Same for me with J.I. Packer, and he also did the same.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

DELETED BY MOD

 

[Eleanor]

Look here..verse 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh,that he should give eternal life to as many as thou HAST GIVEN HIM...​

Talking about the Born Again here.​

John 17​

​

King James Version​

​

​

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them

Good stuff!

No avatar?

 

[Ritajanice]

No avatar?

I was feeling self conscious, so took it down..

 

[His clay]

Instead of asking questions to find out what it is you have not yet learned about?

You reject...

Did you notice how your post 383 had absolutely no scripture to justify your comments? I accept scripture.

 

[TB2]

We are indwelt by the Spirit at conversion. He does not leave us.

Agreed

The "be filled" Paul says does not refer to subsequent events of "infilling"

Arguing that filling doesn't mean filling is difficult to sustain

but to the ongoing sanctification by the Holy Spirit

You'll need to support that with Scripture

 

[Carbon]

Good stuff!

No avatar?

No avatar?

 

[Ritajanice]

No avatar?

..I was thinking that..

 

[Arial]

Arguing that filling doesn't mean filling is difficult to sustain

It doesn't say filling, it says filled.

You'll need to support that with Scripture

Support for the ongoing sanctification (filled) by the Holy Spirit in Eph 5.
Eph 1-3 Paul gives indicitives. Who the Christian is because of the person and work of Jesus. The following chapters are imperatives.

1-3 then chapter 4 begins, "I, therefore, because of who you are in Christ)----beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called."

Since there is one being filled with the Spirit given in the NT, and the Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit at conversion, sealed in Christ, and the Holy Spirit giving spiritual insight, that produces progressive sanctification, and no where does the scripture speak of the need for subsequent infillings by the Spirit, it is most likely that being filled with the Spirit (not by the Spirit) refers to the imperatives given for those who are the children of God, and relates to obedience to the Spirit. Since you are in the Spirit, walk according to the Spirit.

 

[Arial]

R.C. was my favorite living theologian...then he goes and dies on me. I have to pick a new favorite.

Try Voddie Baucham.

 

[Ritajanice]

Being filled in the Spirit, does not say in God’s word that it equates to being birthed in the Spirit .

God’s word categorically states that we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God...

It does not say we must be filled with the spirit to see the Kingdom of God.

Filling is not the same as being birthed imo/ belief.

We start the process of sanctification..once the birth has taken place and not before.

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

John 3:3-8​

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King James Version​

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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Carbon]

Try Voddie Baucham.

Voddie is Awesome! But my favorite living is Sinclair Ferguson

 

[prism]

In another word, governed. God governs His creation.

Yes, in a way that keeps intact man's responsibility.

 

[Arial]

Voddie is Awesome! But my favorite living is Sinclair Ferguson

I haven't watched many of his sermons. Have learned so much from Sproul and Voddie and new videos keep turning up on youtube, that I haven't moved past them much yet. But I will check out Ferguson.