Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[Dave_Regenerated]

You don’t need knowledge for the Holy Spirit to enter your heart...nor the Bible..when God decides to birth you in the Spirit he will.


Indeed without heart knowledge, imo..one might as well be dead..in fact one is dead...we need both.

The rebirth is vital..without it..there is no life..once we have been birthed then we can start to feed on the word of God.even then it’s not guaranteed that one grows straight away.i know I didn’t...I knew I was Born Again..that’s all I knew..growing is in God’s timing not mine.

Yes. Also, once you are born again you will be led to the Bible and want to read it.

 

[fastfredy0]

There's always this (but not as an excuse not to study)...

Acts 4:13
When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they marveled and took note that these men had been with Jesus.

Agreed. If there was a Peter or John around today I would put my Bible or any any study material aside for awhile and hopefully have a Q and A session. Alas, there are no apostles amongst us today.

 

[Ritajanice]

No. Romans 1:19-23 says that even the heathen who never heard of Christ know God exists and are without excuse.

Now, to know God well relative to other Christians takes study and that assumes you are studying good Christian literature (a lot of Christian books are trash).

To know God in the heart..takes no knowledge as he is the one who births us.

Now,to get to know and understand God ,comes from the Spirit within us as he is the one who leads us through God’s Living word the Bible...he is a living Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes. Also, once you are born again you will be led to the Bible and want to read it.

I was to screwed up to understand God’s word after I became Born Again...all I knew was..I was Born Again...I’ve had years of mental health therapy, which you can relate to.

I Love hearing and reading his word now and can’t get enough of it..I live,Breath,eat and sleep God...he has healed my broken spirit and my mind is being renewed daily.

 

[fastfredy0]

To know God in the heart..takes no knowledge as he is the one who births us.

I disagree. Faith cometh by hearing. Faith requires something to believe which is knowledge.
.... or maybe you meant that it does not take knowledge to make the heart receptive (trust in) what one hears; God makes the heart receptive.

Now,to get to know and understand God ,comes from the Spirit within us as he is the one who leads us through God’s Living word the Bible...he is a living Spirit.

Agreed.

 

[Ritajanice]

I disagree. Faith cometh by hearing. Faith requires something to believe which is knowledge.
.... or maybe you meant that it does not take knowledge to make the heart receptive (trust in) what one hears; God makes the heart receptive.

Faith comes through the heart ,ears and eyes..only God can penetrate the heart for his child to receive and hear..then they truly see through the eyes of the Spirit...once they have been birthed in the spirit.

No worries that you disagree...

Agreed.

 

[fastfredy0]

I was to screwed up to understand God’s word

We're all screwed up regarding the understanding of God's word to some degree.

Hmmmm, well maybe not @Eleanor ... but the rest of us. *runs for cover*

 

[Ritajanice]

We're all screwed up regarding the understanding of God's word to some degree.

Hmmmm, well maybe not @Eleanor ... but the rest of us. *runs for cover*

No..I don’t mean I was screwed up understanding his word.

I wasn’t in a place of being able to understand his word because of my mental health issues....you don’t have to Be highly intelligent to understand God’s word....we are led by the Holy Spirit to understand his word....we all go at different paces and learn at different paces..imo/ belief.

It’s the heart / spirit that we learn from .....which of course is relayed to our minds.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I disagree. Faith cometh by hearing. Faith requires something to believe which is knowledge.
.... or maybe you meant that it does not take knowledge to make the heart receptive (trust in) what one hears; God makes the heart receptive.


Agreed.

Actually, I've come across testimonies of people that God just saved out of the blue that had nothing to do with hearing anything. So that happens too.

 

[fastfredy0]

you don’t have to Be highly intelligent to understand God’s word.

Well, there are parts I don't understand ... and many Christians that understand differently than me which suggests I may not understand.

It’s the heart / spirit that we learn from

The Spirit gives various gifts to people. Not everyone is a teacher which suggests that not everyone knowledge is sufficient for teaching.

 

[fastfredy0]

Actually, I've come across testimonies of people that God just saved out of the blue that had nothing to do with hearing anything. So that happens too.

I think I've heard of these exceptions .... but part of their salvation depends on hearing (knowing) something. They had to be presented the gospel to be saved. Now, it may be a completely ignorant guy in the amazon and God may come to him ... but God has to tell him something to believe in to be saved for faith in something requires knowledge and salvation requires faith. (Faith cometh by hearing)

 

[Ritajanice]

Well, there are parts I don't understand ... and many Christians that understand differently than me which suggests I may not understand.

Yes, there is much I don’t understand as well.

The Spirit gives various gifts to people. Not everyone is a teacher which suggests that not everyone knowledge is sufficient for teaching.

True..

 

[Carbon]

Isn't this what He sees?...

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

I believe so

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I think I've heard of these exceptions .... but part of their salvation depends on hearing (knowing) something. They had to be presented the gospel to be saved. Now, it may be a completely ignorant guy in the amazon and God may come to him ... but God has to tell him something to believe in to be saved for faith in something requires knowledge and salvation requires faith. (Faith cometh by hearing)

I've talked to people personally who have these testimonies and they said they didn't hear anything before.

 

[Ritajanice]

I've talked to people personally who have these testimonies and they said they didn't hear anything before.

Mine was completely out of the blue..the only thing I will add is..I had heard of Jesus,when we were taught RE at school....I had also been searching within my own self.for many years trying to figure out and .wondering why my life was such a mess and In turmoil...

 

[Arial]

You don’t need knowledge for the Holy Spirit to enter your heart...nor the Bible..when God decides to birth you in the Spirit he will.

No the Holy Spirit does not rebirth according to knowledge that one has, but the rebirth is what brings the knowledge and understanding necessary for salvation and that knowledge is in the scriptures. We must believe who Jesus is and what He did in order to be saved. We won't believe it without the new birth by the Holy Spirit and His indwelling.
Romans 10:14-15


How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? ANd how are they to preach unless they are sent?

Indeed without heart knowledge, imo..one might as well be dead..in fact one is dead...we need both.

A person can't have heart knowledge without first having some head knowledge. It goes from our mind into our heart. And it will never go from our mind into our heart without the rebirth taking place first. So yes, we need both, but that is the order.

 

[Ritajanice]

No the Holy Spirit does not rebirth according to knowledge that one has, but the rebirth is what brings the knowledge and understanding necessary for salvation and that knowledge is in the scriptures. We must believe who Jesus is and what He did in order to be saved. We won't believe it without the new birth by the Holy Spirit and His indwelling.
Romans 10:14-15

That knowledge is in God’s Living word, which is delivered to the heart of his child, as I’ve said you don’t need scripture to receive the rebirth....why , because his word is Alive in Spirit..don’t limit God.

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? ANd how are they to preach unless they are sent?

A person can't have heart knowledge without first having some head knowledge. It goes from our mind into our heart. And it will never go from our mind into our heart without the rebirth taking place first. So yes, we need both, but that is the order.

Disagree..a person can be birthed in the Spirit then it’s relayed to the mind as the birth is taking place...he testifies with our spirit, he speaks to our spirit through the Holy Spirit..testifies that we are his child..this is a living birth..not something you read...it’s all in the word of God the bible of course...but he doesn’t need everyone to read his word, for him to birth them in the Spirit as it’s a living birth.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[GeneZ]

That depends. What do you consider the church age?

There is no such thing as the church age?

We are the dispensation of the revealing of the mystery that had been hidden up until it began.


Colossians 1:25-26

"I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you ​

the word of God in its fullness— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ​

ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. "​

You read that? We are in a new dispensation!

I do not know how long I am going to last here. For I am facing a stronghold of denominational bias.

In the mean while believers are being robbed of knowing truth. Of knowing the Lord Himself.

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."​

If its not truth? We are not knowing the Lord... and failing also at knowing the Father.

Denominational self esteemis what some seek in their lives. Killing themselves spiritually in the process.

As I said earlier.. I was brought up Jewish having come into Christianity without having any doctrinal bias as so many Christians develop
over time. And, absolutely avoiding the Messianic movement that I find highly distasteful and a denominational stronghold like all other
denominations.

If it isn't the Truth, it ain't the Lord one is knowing. Forming cliques that become mutual admiration societies. Church sects designed to keep each otherbuilt up in way that displeases the Lord.

In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, ​

and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be heresies among you to show which ​

of you have God’s approval." 1 Corinthians 11:18-19​

We are IN THE CHURCH AGE! Its a "dispensation." the mystery that has been kept hidden for

ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. "​

Some take pride in what they have chosen and prefer to accept. They will base their self esteem upon it,
seeking the approval of others who are also so inclined. = forming a mutual admiration society.

It does not sound like I am trying to win friends and to influence people at the moment. Does it?

The Lord is my witness. Many are being robbed today of tremendous riches of understanding in Christ, because they refuse to come out of their hiding place which they have constructed with their own denominational wood, hay, and stubble. 1 Corinthians 3:12


In Christ .......

 

[Arial]

That knowledge is in God’s Living word, which is delivered to the heart of his child, as I’ve said you don’t need scripture to receive the rebirth....why , because his word is Alive in Spirit..don’t limit God.

The scriptures are His living word.

 

[Ritajanice]

The scriptures are His living word.

His word is Alive and Active....do you honestly think God can only speak to his children through the Bible?

Do you understand what this means?

Hebrews 4:12

New International Version

​

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.