Is TULIP biblical?

[Johan]

Closeup Jennifer Rothnie Supporter Housewife, Artist, Perpetually Curious


The five points of Calvinism are Total depravity (T), Unconditional Election (U), Limited Atonement (L), Irresistible Grace (I), and Perseverance of the Saints (P). The five points are often referred to by the Acronym "TULIP".

Total Depravity: Total Depravity is also known as Total Inability. It teaches that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc., (Mark 7:21-23), and that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6). [On this part, all Christians agree.]

The teaching goes beyond this to claim that man is born sinful by nature and guilty of sin, and is so "spiritually dead" that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin [contrary to scripture, which asks us to believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc.]

As such, many Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe [contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc.]

Unconditional Election Unconditional Election is also based in the misunderstandings that the 'Total Depravity' teaching brings in; since man, in His sin, cannot accept the free gift of Salvation, then God chose (elected) some to be regenerated or enlightened by the Holy Spirit so they can believe and be saved, whereas others he chooses not to regenerate or enlighten, so they still can't believe, and hence they stand condemned.

However, scripture gives a different presentation of election: The nation of Israel was elect due to God’s own choice (Ezek 16:5-7). Israel entered the covenant with God to confirm this (Deut 29:9-15), but they still rebelled, and thought salvation was by works and not the promise. More importantly, in regards to salvation: God elected a people for Himself, the body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile. (I Pet 2:7-10, Rom 1:1-3, II Tim 2:1-13, etc). His calling this people is by His grace, not by any of our own works (I Pet 2:9-10, Eph 2:8-10, Rom 11:1-6).

Limited Atonement This teaching holds that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for all, but it wasn't efficacious for all; that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect; that Christ only died for some, not all.

However, scripture presents that Christ died for all, and God desires all men to be saved (I John 2:2, I Tim 2:4, John 12:32, John 4:4-42, John 10:9, John 3:16-17, Rev 22:17, Matt 11:28, Ti 2:11, etc) Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, offering complete propitiation to appeasing the wrath of God for all who believe (Rom 1:16-17).

Irresistible Grace In short, this is the teaching that there is an 'internal call' to salvation by the Holy Spirit that cannot be resisted, as such anyone that God calls to Him cannot refuse.

However, as most easily seen by Israel's continual rebellion, God rarely stops people from rebelling, disobeying, or ignoring conviction (Acts 7:51-53, Deut 30:11-20, Josh 15:14-28, Luke 6:46, Luke 9:5).

Rather, God commands everyone to repent, Christ draws all men to Himself, and the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe and also helps us testify to Christ (Acts 6:8-12, John 15:26-27). We still can refuse, but we remain under condemnation if we do so (John 3:16-17).

Perseverance of the Saints The last point is quite complicated, but teaches that the individuals that God chooses and then draws (see above points) will then persevere in their faith to the end.

Conversely, scripture shows that belief must be continuous abiding, not a one time decision (John 3:16, Mk 16:16, John 15:1-17, Luke 8:4-15, I John 5:3-5).

Is it biblical? This has been debated among Christians for a long time. While parts of TULIP are biblical (based in the Bible), other parts are not (new definitions, out-of-context verses, philosophies, contradictions, etc.)

From a dear sister-Jennifer-

This CCAF seems to depreciate all other inputs and any or all disagreements are met with hostility-especially from the Staff Admins.

 

[CrowCross]

Closeup Jennifer Rothnie Supporter Housewife, Artist, Perpetually Curious


The five points of Calvinism are Total depravity (T), Unconditional Election (U), Limited Atonement (L), Irresistible Grace (I), and Perseverance of the Saints (P). The five points are often referred to by the Acronym "TULIP".

Total Depravity: Total Depravity is also known as Total Inability. It teaches that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc., (Mark 7:21-23), and that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6). [On this part, all Christians agree.]

The teaching goes beyond this to claim that man is born sinful by nature and guilty of sin, and is so "spiritually dead" that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin [contrary to scripture, which asks us to believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc.]

As such, many Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe [contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc.]

Unconditional Election Unconditional Election is also based in the misunderstandings that the 'Total Depravity' teaching brings in; since man, in His sin, cannot accept the free gift of Salvation, then God chose (elected) some to be regenerated or enlightened by the Holy Spirit so they can believe and be saved, whereas others he chooses not to regenerate or enlighten, so they still can't believe, and hence they stand condemned.

However, scripture gives a different presentation of election: The nation of Israel was elect due to God’s own choice (Ezek 16:5-7). Israel entered the covenant with God to confirm this (Deut 29:9-15), but they still rebelled, and thought salvation was by works and not the promise. More importantly, in regards to salvation: God elected a people for Himself, the body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile. (I Pet 2:7-10, Rom 1:1-3, II Tim 2:1-13, etc). His calling this people is by His grace, not by any of our own works (I Pet 2:9-10, Eph 2:8-10, Rom 11:1-6).

Limited Atonement This teaching holds that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for all, but it wasn't efficacious for all; that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect; that Christ only died for some, not all.

However, scripture presents that Christ died for all, and God desires all men to be saved (I John 2:2, I Tim 2:4, John 12:32, John 4:4-42, John 10:9, John 3:16-17, Rev 22:17, Matt 11:28, Ti 2:11, etc) Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, offering complete propitiation to appeasing the wrath of God for all who believe (Rom 1:16-17).

Irresistible Grace In short, this is the teaching that there is an 'internal call' to salvation by the Holy Spirit that cannot be resisted, as such anyone that God calls to Him cannot refuse.

However, as most easily seen by Israel's continual rebellion, God rarely stops people from rebelling, disobeying, or ignoring conviction (Acts 7:51-53, Deut 30:11-20, Josh 15:14-28, Luke 6:46, Luke 9:5).

Rather, God commands everyone to repent, Christ draws all men to Himself, and the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe and also helps us testify to Christ (Acts 6:8-12, John 15:26-27). We still can refuse, but we remain under condemnation if we do so (John 3:16-17).

Perseverance of the Saints The last point is quite complicated, but teaches that the individuals that God chooses and then draws (see above points) will then persevere in their faith to the end.

Conversely, scripture shows that belief must be continuous abiding, not a one time decision (John 3:16, Mk 16:16, John 15:1-17, Luke 8:4-15, I John 5:3-5).

Is it biblical? This has been debated among Christians for a long time. While parts of TULIP are biblical (based in the Bible), other parts are not (new definitions, out-of-context verses, philosophies, contradictions, etc.)

From a dear sister-Jennifer-

This CCAF seems to depreciate all other inputs and any or all disagreements are met with hostility-especially from the Staff Admins.

Is TULIP biblical?​

I say yes.

Is there any part of TULIP you particularly disagree with?

 

[Eleanor]

Closeup Jennifer Rothnie Supporter Housewife, Artist, Perpetually Curious


The five points of Calvinism are Total depravity (T), Unconditional Election (U), Limited Atonement (L), Irresistible Grace (I), and Perseverance of the Saints (P). The five points are often referred to by the Acronym "TULIP".

Total Depravity: Total Depravity is also known as Total Inability. It teaches that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc., (Mark 7:21-23), and that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6). [On this part, all Christians agree.]

The teaching goes beyond this to claim that man is born sinful by nature and guilty of sin, and is so "spiritually dead" that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin [contrary to scripture, which asks us to believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc.]

As such, many Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe [contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc.]

Unconditional Election Unconditional Election is also based in the misunderstandings that the 'Total Depravity' teaching brings in; since man, in His sin, cannot accept the free gift of Salvation, then God chose (elected) some to be regenerated or enlightened by the Holy Spirit so they can believe and be saved, whereas others he chooses not to regenerate or enlighten, so they still can't believe, and hence they stand condemned.

However, scripture gives a different presentation of election: The nation of Israel was elect due to God’s own choice (Ezek 16:5-7). Israel entered the covenant with God to confirm this (Deut 29:9-15), but they still rebelled, and thought salvation was by works and not the promise. More importantly, in regards to salvation: God elected a people for Himself, the body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile. (I Pet 2:7-10, Rom 1:1-3, II Tim 2:1-13, etc). His calling this people is by His grace, not by any of our own works (I Pet 2:9-10, Eph 2:8-10, Rom 11:1-6).

Limited Atonement This teaching holds that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for all, but it wasn't efficacious for all; that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect; that Christ only died for some, not all.

However, scripture presents that Christ died for all, and God desires all men to be saved (I John 2:2, I Tim 2:4, John 12:32, John 4:4-42, John 10:9, John 3:16-17, Rev 22:17, Matt 11:28, Ti 2:11, etc) Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, offering complete propitiation to appeasing the wrath of God for all who believe (Rom 1:16-17).

Irresistible Grace In short, this is the teaching that there is an 'internal call' to salvation by the Holy Spirit that cannot be resisted, as such anyone that God calls to Him cannot refuse.

However, as most easily seen by Israel's continual rebellion, God rarely stops people from rebelling, disobeying, or ignoring conviction (Acts 7:51-53, Deut 30:11-20, Josh 15:14-28, Luke 6:46, Luke 9:5).

Rather, God commands everyone to repent, Christ draws all men to Himself, and the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe and also helps us testify to Christ (Acts 6:8-12, John 15:26-27). We still can refuse, but we remain under condemnation if we do so (John 3:16-17).

Perseverance of the Saints The last point is quite complicated, but teaches that the individuals that God chooses and then draws (see above points) will then persevere in their faith to the end.

Conversely, scripture shows that belief must be continuous abiding, not a one time decision (John 3:16, Mk 16:16, John 15:1-17, Luke 8:4-15, I John 5:3-5).

Is it biblical? This has been debated among Christians for a long time. While parts of TULIP are biblical (based in the Bible), other parts are not (new definitions, out-of-context verses, philosophies, contradictions, etc.)
---------------------------------------

It's a Reformed group.

 

[Johan]

It's a Reformed group.

Yes-and I am a Baptist-so the Reformed group can depreciated any and everything I post?
J.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes-and I am a Baptist-so the Reformed group can depreciated any and everything I post?
J.

Well, they can argue against it.

 

[Johan]

Is TULIP biblical?​

I say yes.

Is there any part of TULIP you particularly disagree with?

Yes, the post explained it.
J.

 

[Arial]

Total Depravity: Total Depravity is also known as Total Inability. It teaches that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc., (Mark 7:21-23), and that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6). [On this part, all Christians agree.]

The teaching goes beyond this to claim that man is born sinful by nature and guilty of sin, and is so "spiritually dead" that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin [contrary to scripture, which asks us to believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc.]

Romans 10:5-13 There is nothing in there that states we are able or willing to choose Christ. It is presumed to be there.

John 3:14-21 There is nothing there that states it is man who chooses Christ on his own or that he is willing and therefore able to. It is presumed.

Luke 11:5-13 There is nothing in there that states that man is capable of doing this on his own or that he is willing to do so. It is presumed.

Heb 11:13-16 They all died in faith---they were redeemed.

Gal 3:24 Says nothing about man's ability to choose Christ or inability to.

Deut 30:11-14 Refers to the old covenant commandments that were given and the choice to obey then or not obey them with the rewards and curses laid out. It has nothing to do with man's willingness or ability to choose Christ.

So we have no clear case made against what Calvinism teaches in total depravity. But first we must get straight just what it does teach as the copy/paste of someone else's work, slightly distorts it. It does not say that man is so spiritually dead (and is there any other dead than so dead) that he cannot even accept Christ's offer of salvation and receive His deliverance from sin. It does not consider the grace by which one is saved through faith as an offer to be accepted or rejected, but a gift. And it is the scriptures that tell us we are dead in our tresspasses and sins in no uncertain words, scriptures that were not brought up in the argument against the "T", in Eph 2:1-10. We were so dead, and obviously that means as to spiritual truths, as we are told elsewhere that the natural man cannot understand spiritual things, that we had to be brought to life before we could be saved, and it says that God did this.

Jesus tells us in John 3 in His exchange with Nicodemus that we cannot even see the kingdom of God, let alone enter it, unless we are born anew of the Spirit.

I will go through the rest later but if this is a Reformed group it is reformed in name only for the whole purpose is seems to be to tear down the doctrines contained in TULIP.

 

[Arial]

Closeup Jennifer Rothnie Supporter Housewife, Artist, Perpetually Curious


The five points of Calvinism are Total depravity (T), Unconditional Election (U), Limited Atonement (L), Irresistible Grace (I), and Perseverance of the Saints (P). The five points are often referred to by the Acronym "TULIP".

Total Depravity: Total Depravity is also known as Total Inability. It teaches that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc., (Mark 7:21-23), and that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6). [On this part, all Christians agree.]

The teaching goes beyond this to claim that man is born sinful by nature and guilty of sin, and is so "spiritually dead" that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin [contrary to scripture, which asks us to believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc.]

As such, many Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe [contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc.]

Unconditional Election Unconditional Election is also based in the misunderstandings that the 'Total Depravity' teaching brings in; since man, in His sin, cannot accept the free gift of Salvation, then God chose (elected) some to be regenerated or enlightened by the Holy Spirit so they can believe and be saved, whereas others he chooses not to regenerate or enlighten, so they still can't believe, and hence they stand condemned.

However, scripture gives a different presentation of election: The nation of Israel was elect due to God’s own choice (Ezek 16:5-7). Israel entered the covenant with God to confirm this (Deut 29:9-15), but they still rebelled, and thought salvation was by works and not the promise. More importantly, in regards to salvation: God elected a people for Himself, the body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile. (I Pet 2:7-10, Rom 1:1-3, II Tim 2:1-13, etc). His calling this people is by His grace, not by any of our own works (I Pet 2:9-10, Eph 2:8-10, Rom 11:1-6).

Limited Atonement This teaching holds that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for all, but it wasn't efficacious for all; that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect; that Christ only died for some, not all.

However, scripture presents that Christ died for all, and God desires all men to be saved (I John 2:2, I Tim 2:4, John 12:32, John 4:4-42, John 10:9, John 3:16-17, Rev 22:17, Matt 11:28, Ti 2:11, etc) Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, offering complete propitiation to appeasing the wrath of God for all who believe (Rom 1:16-17).

Irresistible Grace In short, this is the teaching that there is an 'internal call' to salvation by the Holy Spirit that cannot be resisted, as such anyone that God calls to Him cannot refuse.

However, as most easily seen by Israel's continual rebellion, God rarely stops people from rebelling, disobeying, or ignoring conviction (Acts 7:51-53, Deut 30:11-20, Josh 15:14-28, Luke 6:46, Luke 9:5).

Rather, God commands everyone to repent, Christ draws all men to Himself, and the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe and also helps us testify to Christ (Acts 6:8-12, John 15:26-27). We still can refuse, but we remain under condemnation if we do so (John 3:16-17).

Perseverance of the Saints The last point is quite complicated, but teaches that the individuals that God chooses and then draws (see above points) will then persevere in their faith to the end.

Conversely, scripture shows that belief must be continuous abiding, not a one time decision (John 3:16, Mk 16:16, John 15:1-17, Luke 8:4-15, I John 5:3-5).

Is it biblical? This has been debated among Christians for a long time. While parts of TULIP are biblical (based in the Bible), other parts are not (new definitions, out-of-context verses, philosophies, contradictions, etc.)
---------------------------------------

It's a Reformed group.

Really? It doesn't sound like it.

 

[Eleanor]

Really? It doesn't sound like it.

That was in response to his following comment:

From a dear sister-Jennifer-

This CCAF seems to depreciate all other inputs and any or all disagreements are met with hostility-especially from the Staff Admins.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, the post explained it.
J.

Perhaps you can help me out and cut and paste the portion of the post.

 

[prism]

As such, many Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe [contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc.]

I've always taken regeneration as a 'spiritual quickening'

Ephesians 2:1,5 KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

...an 'eye opener' if you will, in which subsequently we receive Christ & the Holy Spirit.

 

[fastfredy0]

Is TULIP biblical?​

Yes

Aside: @Johan ... I give you props for putting forth well thought out arguments.

 

[fastfredy0]

...an 'eye opener' if you will, in which subsequently we receive Christ & the Holy Spirit.

I believe reform theology teaches that faith and regeneration happen at the same time; though the logical order is regeneration causes faith.

• John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” Clearly this verse defines faith as a work. Thus faith must originate from God since God’s grace does not include man works (Galatians 5:2).
• John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh conveys no benefit [it is of no account]. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life [providing eternal life]… 65 And He was saying, “This is the reason why I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him [that is, unless he is enabled to do so] by the Father.”
• 1 Corinthians 12:3b And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit. [The confession of the Lordship of Christ in saving faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Tom Constable: no one would sincerely acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, Savior and or Sovereign, unless the Holy Spirit had some influence over him or her. Contrarily, “free will” claims ones ability to believe is free from the influence of the Spirit.
• Philippians 1:29 For you have been granted [from the Greek term charizomai, “to give as a gift. Literally means “to give, render, or grant graciously.”] [the privilege] for Christ’s sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf.
• Philippians 2:13 For it is [not your strength, but it is] God who is effectively at work in you, both to will and to work [that is, strengthening, energizing, and creating in you the longing and the ability to fulfill your purpose] for His good pleasure.
• yahda, yahda ...

 

[prism]

I believe reform theology teaches that faith and regeneration happen at the same time; though the logical order is regeneration causes faith.

And here I thought that was Lutheran theology, where the Word spoken, through the Gospel, has power to create new life.

 

[Arial]

Is TULIP biblical?​

Yes

Aside: @Johan ... I give you props for putting forth well thought out arguments.

Just a heads up. It was not his work but a copy paste from another website. You can google the owner of the work given in the first line. Hopefully it wasn't a copyright infringement.

 

[JIM]

Just a heads up. It was not his work but a copy paste from another website. You can google the owner of the work given in the first line. Hopefully it wasn't a copyright infringement.

I have read a couple of times here at the forum that the cut and paste from another source somehow means that it is less than correct or useful. I seriously doubt that any theological notion, concept, or idea presented here is unique, never to have been uttered by anyone previously, and unavailable from any other source. I don't understand the objection to cut and paste.

 

[JIM]

I believe reform theology teaches that faith and regeneration happen at the same time; though the logical order is regeneration causes faith.

Yes, of course Reformed Theology teaches that. But that is no proof that God of the Bible teaches that.

John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” Clearly this verse defines faith as a work. Thus faith must originate from God since God’s grace does not include man works (Galatians 5:2).

That only means that the work that Jesus spoke about was different from the work that Paul was speaking when he said that salvation is by faith not works. Specifically, the works that Paul spoke about was works of law. No matter how you understand the idea of "faith not works", Jesus' teaching on this subject in passages like that including John 6:29 is that believing in God is something that you do.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh conveys no benefit [it is of no account]. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life [providing eternal life]… 65 And He was saying, “This is the reason why I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him [that is, unless he is enabled to do so] by the Father.”

Granted does not mean and only mean enabled.

1 Corinthians 12:3b And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit. [The confession of the Lordship of Christ in saving faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Tom Constable: no one would sincerely acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, Savior and or Sovereign, unless the Holy Spirit had some influence over him or her. Contrarily, “free will” claims ones ability to believe is free from the influence of the Spirit.

Why would you assume the power and the influence of the Holy Spirit can only be exercised following regeneration? That is the fatal fallacy of "regeneration before faith". It posits that God, though the Holy Spirit, is incapable of effective and successful communication with the unregenerated.

Philippians 1:29 For you have been granted [from the Greek term charizomai, “to give as a gift. Literally means “to give, render, or grant graciously.”] [the privilege] for Christ’s sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf.

To give, render, or grant graciously does not preclude a gift being conditional.

Philippians 2:13 For it is [not your strength, but it is] God who is effectively at work in you, both to will and to work [that is, strengthening, energizing, and creating in you the longing and the ability to fulfill your purpose] for His good pleasure.

Nothing about God's good pleasure spoken of in Philippians 2:13 eliminates the works being initiated by the person doing the works. And there is nothing in that verse which prevents God from working in the unregenerate, both will and to work for his good pleasure.

yahda, yahda ...

Yes, yahda, yahda, yahda to the thinking that regeneration causes faith.

 

[Arial]

As such, many Calvinists hold that spiritual regeneration must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe [contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc.]

If they do not believe this, then they are not five point Calvinists, therefore not Calvinist at all, but only hold to those parts of the theology that they can accept.

And given that utter depravity states that in Adam the human race has become a race of sinners, a personal being that is infected in his entire being with a propensity to follow his own strongest desires which are always sometimes sinful, even hidden within the good that he does, it is first God who prohibits this sinful creature to come near Him---as we see portrayed at Sinai where man could not even touch the mountain where God was. And second it is our greatest desire not to. And though the will is free to do what it most desires, it is not free to do what it does not desire. To come to God through Christ means to completely submit to God, which would mean to give up some of those things we most desire to do. The unregenerate man does not see God as a rescuer or a Father. They do not want to trust in Him. They are much more comfortable trusting in themselves and other humans, who are visible. They are unable to trust in Him. The only way they can be redeemed is if they are given to Christ and only God can do that. We cannot give ourselves to Him. We are much too sinful to do so.

Let's look at the scriptures used to deny that a regeneration occurs before one can and will believe.
Gal 3:2-3 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

In order to get a proper understanding of this scripture we must put into the context of what Paul is addressing. We find this in chapters 1 and 2, for this is a letter, not a series of unrelated doctrinal statements that can be interpreted in isolation from the letters purpose and audience. So we find Paul is addressing a false teaching that was infiltrating the church at Galatia, and given what he says it was Judaizers adding to the gospel of grace with works of the Jewish religion. The scriptures quoted are not even pertaining to the issue of which comes first, faith or regeneration, and so it is not giving a consecutive linear order of the process. It is dealing with a different gospel that was being preached (chapter 1.) One of faith plus works. The contrast is works/faith. We begin by the Spirit---hearing with faith. They were seeking to complete this work of the Spirit by adding works of the Law

Gal 3:10-14 See above. 14.so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Again it is not saying that we first have faith and then are given the Spirit. It cannot be because Jesus told us in John 3 that no one can even see the kingdom of God let alone inherit it unless first they are reborn of the Spirit. It happens simultaneously but distinctly. And this passage is not dealing with the regeneration of the Spirit but His indwelling.

Eph 1:11-14 This is not dealing with the order of salvation, or the regeneration by the Holy Spirit, but by the sealing in Christ by the Holy Spirit. That is done when we hear and believe.

2Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. I do not see how this scripture affirms, denies,, or relates to the issue of the before or after position of regeneration.

 

[Arial]

I have read a couple of times here at the forum that the cut and paste from another source somehow means that it is less than correct or useful. I seriously doubt that any theological notion, concept, or idea presented here is unique, never to have been uttered by anyone previously, and unavailable from any other source. I don't understand the objection to cut and paste.

It was not an objection to cut and paste. It was clarifying @fastfredy0 assuming that it was the original work of the poster.

 

[Red Baker]

Is TULIP biblical?​

It is close but not totally. Below is a outline preached by a good friend of mine back maybe fifteen years ago that I heard this sermon and have saved it for reference. I think I might first heard him preached this back in the late eighties.

Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth

Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth John Calvin 1509-1564

letgodbetrue.com