Did Jesus teach TULIP?

[Mr GLee]

((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))

Believers receive the end of there born agin salvation from the first hearing and believing .(1 Peter 1 :9)

Christ being our very confidence ,Assuring us if he has begun the good teaming work in us he will continue to work with us till the end

Philippians 1:6King James Version6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Some take longer to learn like our brother in the Lord Peter or myself

Yoked with Christ the daily suffering is made lighter with a future hope beyond the grave

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Our suffering is with Him

Not that Jesu fell short of the glory of the Father , Believers persecuted for his name sake are sharing the the afflictions of Christ

The Son of man Jesus no longer here the arrows meant for him .

Proverbs 26:18 As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death,

The difference Catholic say thier sufferings makes up for his, in Limbo/Purgatory .

Making Christ who finished the work completed in sons of God ...Christians

 

[Arial]

But since your save you don’t really have to.

(((The “Your Saved” gospel is another gospel and not the true gospel revealed by Christ and taught by His church))) Matt 28:19

Gal 1:6
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Tim 4:3

Now say wall-o-text etc. or whatever keeps you in unbelief

That is not what perserence of the saints means AT ALL.

It is a lack of faith to do what He says He did, and to continue doing a work in a person to bring them all the way to the promise----the new heaven and the new earth, that causes one to think it takes our own works to contribute to this glorious salvation.

Phil 1:6 For I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but He who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 Peter 1:5 Who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

None of that means we do not have to obedient to the imperatives and instructions given in the Bible. That is where He teaches us what is pleasing to Him. But it is Him working in us to do His will, just as it was God who placed us in Christ in the first place. Perseverance of the saints means we WILL persevere, because He is both the author and the finisher of our faith. It is Christ's righteousness imputed to the believer that saves. It is NOT our own righteousness. But a branch that is in the Vine produces the fruit of that Vine.

The gospel you preach, salvation by faith and works is no gospel at all.

 

[Josheb]

Conditional perseverance:

((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))

Mk 13:13
Matt 7:14
Matt 16:24
Matt 24:13
Jn 2:24-25
Jn 8:9
Jn 15:4
Jn 15:5
Jn 15:4
Jn 15:10
Rom 1:5
Rom 8:13-17
Rom 11:22
1 cor 7:24
1 cor 13:7
2 thes 1:4
Gal 5:2-4
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
1 Jn 2:24-28
1 Jn 3:6
Heb 3:4-6
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 12:7
Heb 12:22-25
James 1:12

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But since your save you don’t really have to.

(((The “Your Saved” gospel is another gospel and not the true gospel revealed by Christ and taught by His church))) Matt 28:19

Gal 1:6
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Tim 4:3

Now say wall-o-text etc. or whatever keeps you in unbelief

Once again, this is not what the "P" in "Perseverance of the Saints," or "Eternal Security," is about. The "P" simply teaches God, not man will persevere and accomplish His salvation in the life of the one He has saved.

The purpose of participation is maturity, not perseverance.

 

[donadams]

Total depravity is not dealing with the world God created specifically, but with the condition of all mankind. The total effect it had on all Adam's progeny. It is not dealing with sanctifying grace, but the radical and total effect the fall had on us in separating us from God. I suspect your religion teaches total depravity in the sense that the depravity affects every part of us. It differs in the rest of the doctrines of grace in TULIP. Since that is probably the case concerning the T, you should be able to answer the question in your own words, what the T means, and whether or not Jesus taught it and the ULIP.

This is true, but it has nothing to do with TULIP or total depravity.

The TULIP has nothing to do with Mary, and certainly not with unconditional election. And you attributed to Mary a condition upon which she was elected, and called it unconditional. The rest of what you categorize as unconditional election, either as an agreement or a refutation, I cannot tell and you do not say, are quotes from Catholic dogma. None of which has a thing to do with unconditional election, and do not answer the question of whether Jesus taught it. That would require a presentation of what Jesus taught, not a Catholic interpretation. And as this is not a Catholic thread, their interpretations should no be considered actually answering any question. You should be able to do that yourself, without reference to them---even if you come up with the same conclusion. Can you do that?

So---the whole world in those passages means every person without exception? Then you use another Catholic quote (D 96) that skips 500 steps before offering its conclusion and changes the conversation from the meaning of limited atonement and whether or not Jesus taught it, to something else entirely. The predestination issue belongs in the discussion of unconditional election. And when you were in the "U", you never bothered with that but started discussing Mary.

That is Catholic dogma and it is also a contradiction within itself. If the grace of God is efficacious it cannot be, because it will not be, resisted.

Can you say that in your own words, finding its verification in the words of Scripture, and without the influence of Catholic dogma telling you what something means? I already know that they teach they are the only ones who can distribute this "special help of God", which turns the special help of God into the special help of men and traditions of men. Do you see how it is impossible in and of yourself for you to think outside of what has been indoctrinated into you? And as I said, this is not a Catholic thread, so Catholic dogma will never be a valid point of reference in address the OP question.

Did Jesus teach perseverance of the saints? (Here I must pause to give that word "saints" its biblical definition and not the Catholic one.) "Saints" in the Bible, and especially in the epistles, means believers. Those who believe the person and work of Christ and have put their faith and trust in Him---for everything necessary for salvation. The apostles in their letters frequently call those they are writing to "saints."

The question is quite easy to answer, and though there are many such examples in Jesus' teaching, this one, all by itself, will seal the deal. John 6:35-40.

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to e shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

All who are in Christ through faith, have been placed there by God (given to Him), and they will persevere because God Himself preserves them. He does not need our help to do this. He does not need baptisms, or transubstantiation, or penance paid, or earthly priests, or religion, or anything else, to do this. We live and move and have our being in Him. He leads us in paths of righteousness, directs our footsteps, makes our paths straight before us. He Himself, teaches us righteousness form His word and writes it upon our hearts.

The answer to the OP question, did Jesus teach TULIP is yes. He teaches the entire thing in that one passage quoted in John 6. And of course, that is not the only place.

See how easy that was?

Here we go again, we don’t mean what we say and we don’t say what we mean, then say ((partial depravity)) or total depravity after the fall, then you need to explain without the immaculate conception how Jesus is exempt?

 

[donadams]

Total depravity is not dealing with the world God created specifically, but with the condition of all mankind. The total effect it had on all Adam's progeny. It is not dealing with sanctifying grace, but the radical and total effect the fall had on us in separating us from God. I suspect your religion teaches total depravity in the sense that the depravity affects every part of us. It differs in the rest of the doctrines of grace in TULIP. Since that is probably the case concerning the T, you should be able to answer the question in your own words, what the T means, and whether or not Jesus taught it and the ULIP.

This is true, but it has nothing to do with TULIP or total depravity.

The TULIP has nothing to do with Mary, and certainly not with unconditional election. And you attributed to Mary a condition upon which she was elected, and called it unconditional. The rest of what you categorize as unconditional election, either as an agreement or a refutation, I cannot tell and you do not say, are quotes from Catholic dogma. None of which has a thing to do with unconditional election, and do not answer the question of whether Jesus taught it. That would require a presentation of what Jesus taught, not a Catholic interpretation. And as this is not a Catholic thread, their interpretations should no be considered actually answering any question. You should be able to do that yourself, without reference to them---even if you come up with the same conclusion. Can you do that?

So---the whole world in those passages means every person without exception? Then you use another Catholic quote (D 96) that skips 500 steps before offering its conclusion and changes the conversation from the meaning of limited atonement and whether or not Jesus taught it, to something else entirely. The predestination issue belongs in the discussion of unconditional election. And when you were in the "U", you never bothered with that but started discussing Mary.

That is Catholic dogma and it is also a contradiction within itself. If the grace of God is efficacious it cannot be, because it will not be, resisted.

Can you say that in your own words, finding its verification in the words of Scripture, and without the influence of Catholic dogma telling you what something means? I already know that they teach they are the only ones who can distribute this "special help of God", which turns the special help of God into the special help of men and traditions of men. Do you see how it is impossible in and of yourself for you to think outside of what has been indoctrinated into you? And as I said, this is not a Catholic thread, so Catholic dogma will never be a valid point of reference in address the OP question.

Did Jesus teach perseverance of the saints? (Here I must pause to give that word "saints" its biblical definition and not the Catholic one.) "Saints" in the Bible, and especially in the epistles, means believers. Those who believe the person and work of Christ and have put their faith and trust in Him---for everything necessary for salvation. The apostles in their letters frequently call those they are writing to "saints."

The question is quite easy to answer, and though there are many such examples in Jesus' teaching, this one, all by itself, will seal the deal. John 6:35-40.

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to e shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

All who are in Christ through faith, have been placed there by God (given to Him), and they will persevere because God Himself preserves them. He does not need our help to do this. He does not need baptisms, or transubstantiation, or penance paid, or earthly priests, or religion, or anything else, to do this. We live and move and have our being in Him. He leads us in paths of righteousness, directs our footsteps, makes our paths straight before us. He Himself, teaches us righteousness form His word and writes it upon our hearts.

The answer to the OP question, did Jesus teach TULIP is yes. He teaches the entire thing in that one passage quoted in John 6. And of course, that is not the only place.

See how easy that was?

In catholic terms there are more than one kind of saint

Canonized saints yes
But also the faithful in Christ by faith and baptism not simply believers, believers are only catechumens and not yet Christians not united to Christ in baptism
And called to be saints.

Sorry I did not want to just say no Jesus did not teach tulip but give explanation as to why

 

[donadams]

Verses that oppose the doctrine of eternal security or perpetual perseverance;

Watch and pray not to enter into temptation.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Deny thyself

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Suffering

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Matt 6:33 and his righteous
(Scripture opposing the doctrine of eternal security)

Jn 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

The big “IF”

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Peter 2:21 “It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude 1:4 Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: (Must remain obedient)

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Faithful or unfaithful?
Just or unjust?

Luke 16:10
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

1 Corinthians 4:2
Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.


Perseverance is a gift from God, we need God’s help and graces and gifts, (Jn 15:5) but one that is included in the commandment “ask and you shall receive” and the Lord’s Prayer, and is needed daily so we must ask for this grace and gift daily, and therefore it’s not something God does for the believer automatically!

Not as fundamentalist doctrine states:

As it says: accept Christ as your personal lord and savior! Quote “there is nothing more you need to do”!

 

[donadams]

Total depravity is not dealing with the world God created specifically, but with the condition of all mankind. The total effect it had on all Adam's progeny. It is not dealing with sanctifying grace, but the radical and total effect the fall had on us in separating us from God. I suspect your religion teaches total depravity in the sense that the depravity affects every part of us. It differs in the rest of the doctrines of grace in TULIP. Since that is probably the case concerning the T, you should be able to answer the question in your own words, what the T means, and whether or not Jesus taught it and the ULIP.

This is true, but it has nothing to do with TULIP or total depravity.

The TULIP has nothing to do with Mary, and certainly not with unconditional election. And you attributed to Mary a condition upon which she was elected, and called it unconditional. The rest of what you categorize as unconditional election, either as an agreement or a refutation, I cannot tell and you do not say, are quotes from Catholic dogma. None of which has a thing to do with unconditional election, and do not answer the question of whether Jesus taught it. That would require a presentation of what Jesus taught, not a Catholic interpretation. And as this is not a Catholic thread, their interpretations should no be considered actually answering any question. You should be able to do that yourself, without reference to them---even if you come up with the same conclusion. Can you do that?

So---the whole world in those passages means every person without exception? Then you use another Catholic quote (D 96) that skips 500 steps before offering its conclusion and changes the conversation from the meaning of limited atonement and whether or not Jesus taught it, to something else entirely. The predestination issue belongs in the discussion of unconditional election. And when you were in the "U", you never bothered with that but started discussing Mary.

That is Catholic dogma and it is also a contradiction within itself. If the grace of God is efficacious it cannot be, because it will not be, resisted.

Can you say that in your own words, finding its verification in the words of Scripture, and without the influence of Catholic dogma telling you what something means? I already know that they teach they are the only ones who can distribute this "special help of God", which turns the special help of God into the special help of men and traditions of men. Do you see how it is impossible in and of yourself for you to think outside of what has been indoctrinated into you? And as I said, this is not a Catholic thread, so Catholic dogma will never be a valid point of reference in address the OP question.

Did Jesus teach perseverance of the saints? (Here I must pause to give that word "saints" its biblical definition and not the Catholic one.) "Saints" in the Bible, and especially in the epistles, means believers. Those who believe the person and work of Christ and have put their faith and trust in Him---for everything necessary for salvation. The apostles in their letters frequently call those they are writing to "saints."

The question is quite easy to answer, and though there are many such examples in Jesus' teaching, this one, all by itself, will seal the deal. John 6:35-40.

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to e shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

All who are in Christ through faith, have been placed there by God (given to Him), and they will persevere because God Himself preserves them. He does not need our help to do this. He does not need baptisms, or transubstantiation, or penance paid, or earthly priests, or religion, or anything else, to do this. We live and move and have our being in Him. He leads us in paths of righteousness, directs our footsteps, makes our paths straight before us. He Himself, teaches us righteousness form His word and writes it upon our hearts.

The answer to the OP question, did Jesus teach TULIP is yes. He teaches the entire thing in that one passage quoted in John 6. And of course, that is not the only place.

See how easy that was?

Why does it need to be in my own words?

Indoctrination only means we are taught and instructed

This includes scripture

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

 

[donadams]

Total depravity

Why say God gives perpetual perseverance and also contradict that with we cannot keep the commandments?


Do you like these prayers?

Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created. And You shall renew the face of the earth.

Let us pray;
O, God, who by the light of the Holy Spirit, did instruct the hearts of the faithful, grant that by the same Holy Spirit we may be truly wise and ever enjoy His consolations, Through Christ Our Lord, Amen.


Come, Holy Spirit, Creator blest,
and in our souls take up Thy rest;
come with Thy grace and heavenly aid to fill the hearts which Thou hast made.
O comforter, to Thee we cry,
O heavenly gift of God Most High,
O fount of life and fire of love,
and sweet anointing from above.

Thou in Thy sevenfold gifts are known;
Thou, finger of God's hand we own;
Thou, promise of the Father, Thou
Who dost the tongue with power imbue.

Kindle our sense from above,
and make our hearts o'erflow with love;
with patience firm and virtue high
the weakness of our flesh supply.

Far from us drive the foe we dread,
and grant us Thy peace instead;
so shall we not, with Thee for guide,
turn from the path of life aside.

Oh, may Thy grace on us bestow
the Father and the Son to know;
and Thee, through endless times confessed,
of both the eternal Spirit blest.

Now to the Father and the Son,
Who rose from death, be glory given,
with Thou, O Holy Comforter,
henceforth by all in earth and heaven. Amen.

Breathe in me, O Holy Spirit, that my thoughts may all be holy. Act in me, O Holy Spirit, that my work, too, may be holy. Draw my heart, O Holy Spirit, that I love but what is holy. Strengthen me, O Holy Spirit, to defend all that is holy. Guard me, then, O Holy Spirit, that I always may be holy. Amen. Saint Augustine

 

[Arial]

Why say God gives perpetual perseverance and also contradict that with we cannot keep the commandments?

One doesn't contradict the other. As per usual you leave God and Christ out of the equation. That is because you have a substitute for God and Christ.

Breathe in me, O Holy Spirit, that my thoughts may all be holy. Act in me, O Holy Spirit, that my work, too, may be holy. Draw my heart, O Holy Spirit, that I love but what is holy. Strengthen me, O Holy Spirit, to defend all that is holy. Guard me, then, O Holy Spirit, that I always may be holy. Amen. Saint Augustine

Who is Augustine depending on? The Holy Spirit or himself?

 

[Arial]

Why does it need to be in my own words?

It shows you know and understand something, rather than just repeating it. As the question asked was the meaning of total depravity, then it would show whether or not you understand the actual doctrine or just think you do.

 

[Arial]

In catholic terms there are more than one kind of saint

What do Catholic saints have to do with TULIP and whether or not Jesus taught it?

Canonized saints yes
But also the faithful in Christ by faith and baptism not simply believers, believers are only catechumens and not yet Christians not united to Christ in baptism
And called to be saints.

Sorry I did not want to just say no Jesus did not teach tulip but give explanation as to why

Nothing in that post even deals with TULIP, or the teachings of Jesus, or Him not teaching TULIP. Are you attempting another work around so you can keep preaching Catholicism hoping someone will take the bait?

 

[Arial]

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere
sufficiens).

It is efficacious to those who receive it with free will

As I politely said before, this thread is not about Catholicism and therefore quoting from their dogma as answers to the OP question is useless. It proves nothing about whether or not JESUS taught TULIP. It just shows the RCC doesn't.

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Does God by His powerful grace force a man to repent or dies he chose to repent?

No God does not force a man to repent---that wouldn't be actual repentance would it? TULIP does not teach that God forces anything on anyone. Strawman.

 

[Arial]

Here we go again, we don’t mean what we say and we don’t say what we mean, then say ((partial depravity)) or total depravity after the fall, then you need to explain without the immaculate conception how Jesus is exempt?

Even a Catholic should know that! Jesus was born of God, is God, and was not born in Adam. Did someone say He was not born of a virgin? Nope. They did not.

 

[donadams]

That is not what perserence of the saints means AT ALL.

It is a lack of faith to do what He says He did, and to continue doing a work in a person to bring them all the way to the promise----the new heaven and the new earth, that causes one to think it takes our own works to contribute to this glorious salvation.

Phil 1:6 For I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but He who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 Peter 1:5 Who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

None of that means we do not have to obedient to the imperatives and instructions given in the Bible. That is where He teaches us what is pleasing to Him. But it is Him working in us to do His will, just as it was God who placed us in Christ in the first place. Perseverance of the saints means we WILL persevere, because He is both the author and the finisher of our faith. It is Christ's righteousness imputed to the believer that saves. It is NOT our own righteousness. But a branch that is in the Vine produces the fruit of that Vine.

The gospel you preach, salvation by faith and works is no gospel at all.

If you need perseverance then you are not saved?

Are you rejecting salvation by faith alone?

 

[donadams]

That is not what perserence of the saints means AT ALL.

It is a lack of faith to do what He says He did, and to continue doing a work in a person to bring them all the way to the promise----the new heaven and the new earth, that causes one to think it takes our own works to contribute to this glorious salvation.

Phil 1:6 For I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but He who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 Peter 1:5 Who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

None of that means we do not have to obedient to the imperatives and instructions given in the Bible. That is where He teaches us what is pleasing to Him. But it is Him working in us to do His will, just as it was God who placed us in Christ in the first place. Perseverance of the saints means we WILL persevere, because He is both the author and the finisher of our faith. It is Christ's righteousness imputed to the believer that saves. It is NOT our own righteousness. But a branch that is in the Vine produces the fruit of that Vine.

The gospel you preach, salvation by faith and works is no gospel at all.

A branch that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire

 

[donadams]

Once again, this is not what the "P" in "Perseverance of the Saints," or "Eternal Security," is about. The "P" simply teaches God, not man will persevere and accomplish His salvation in the life of the one He has saved.

The purpose of participation is maturity, not perseverance.

If your really saved there is no need for perseverance

 

[donadams]

One doesn't contradict the other. As per usual you leave God and Christ out of the equation. That is because you have a substitute for God and Christ.

Who is Augustine depending on? The Holy Spirit or himself?

you have a substitute for God and Christ.
What substitute?

 

[donadams]

What do Catholic saints have to do with TULIP and whether or not Jesus taught it?

Nothing in that post even deals with TULIP, or the teachings of Jesus, or Him not teaching TULIP. Are you attempting another work around so you can keep preaching Catholicism hoping someone will take the bait?

You were talking about saints not me

 

[donadams]

So you nullify what Jesus says?

You are making out Jesus a liar, friend.

Your Jesus is God believers are so convenient.

when you dont like what Jesus says you look for someone else's reading and twist their teachings.

When you dismiss Jesus' word your way, that is called unbelief.

How where

 

[Josheb]

If your really saved there is no need for perseverance

Already addressed that. Why are you belaboring points already explained to you as if that explanation was not provided?