Is TULIP biblical?

[Bob Carabbio]

Only the study of God after all?

ALL God's Chilluns gots "theologies".

 

[prism]

ALL God's Chilluns gots "theologies".

yessum

 

[Josheb]

Is TULIP Biblical?

Yes.

 

[Josheb]

This CCAF seems to depreciate all other inputs and any or all disagreements are met with hostility-

Try the following with my encouragement: Go over to the Puritan Board. Spend a few days perusing the posts there before attempting to participate. When applying to join you will be asked to affirm and comply with their statement of faith (and it is thoroughly Reformed). Assuming that statement of faith is affirmed, and new membership is confirmed, take a week and contribute to a few discussions. After a week post the content of this op in that forum. Just copy and paste it from here to there.


See what happens.


After being banned from that forum come back and tell us how CCAF is depreciative and hostile.

...especially from the Staff Admins.

Those who have questions about or disagreements with the administration of CCAM they are invited and expected to express those concerns (politely and respectfully) in the board dedicated for that purpose, and not in the public boards.

 

[Josheb]

This CCAF seems to depreciate all other inputs and any or all disagreements are met with hostility-especially from the Staff Admins.

Just a simple observation: The op has been up a week and I do not read any depreciation or hostility even though disagreement exists.

 

[Josheb]

Is TULIP biblical?

Yes, when TULIP is correctly understood it is thoroughly Biblical.

 

[JIM]

Regeneration is about our hearts as it is most frequently used in the Bible kardia. It denotes a person's center for both physical and emotional-intellectual-moral activities. (1 Sam 16:7; Prov 25:3; Jer 17:10; 1 Cor 4:5) It is the engine that drives the spirit and the body in a manner of speaking.
Biblical application of spirit according to Bakers: an incorporeal, feeling, and intelligent being. It is a spiritual component, given by God, probably at conception. Our spirit in conjunction with our brain, gives us the power of mind, grants us the capacity to think, reason, learn, create, make choices, be self aware.

Ez 11:19-20 And I will give them one heart and anew spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them.

Jer 31:33 This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Also quoted in Hebrews 8:10.

Our bodies are subject to death and the wrath of God because of sin and this is the sense in which it is used concerning our bodies. It is the condition of our heart that drives and directs our spirit. Our spirit does what it does according to what is in the heart. What is in the heart becomes the same thing that is in our spirit and our body. We function as one complete being, not separate parts each doing its own thing.

When we are given a new heart---which is regeneration---our spirit which was dead to the spiritual things of God, because our hearts were corrupted against Him, has now by grace and the power of God, been made new and turns to God and the spiritual things of God, and our spirit follows suit. We can now understand and believe spiritual things that we could not before, being dead as we were, in our trespasses and sins.

The heart in Scripture is very often a euphemism for what we now think of as emotion or as conscience. Even today, the best minds in psychology cannot give a good and meaningful response to the conscience and its operation.

Regeneration is the action of God to bring a spirit, dead in trespasses and sins, back to life again, That is why it is called REgeneration and REbirth or being Born Again.

 

[justbyfaith]

T- I believe that a person can receive Christ when he is drawn to Christ, that God enables him to receive Christ when he is drawn, and that all men are drawn thusly to Christ at some point (John 12:32). Unregenerate mankind is sinful and cannot do good. However, receiving Christ is not necessarily a "good work"...oftentimes it is based on a sinful fear as we are faced with the reality of hell.

U- People are elected to salvation when they choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. God looks down from eternity and chooses them first based on His foreknowledge of their choosing Christ.

L- The atonement is unlimited and its benefits are offered to everyone (1 John 2:2). However, not every person avails themselves of what Jesus did for them on the Cross. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; so the atonement is appropriated by faith. People choosing to reject Christ do not avail themselves of the atonement; which does not mean that Jesus didn't effectively die for them.

I- grace and the Holy Spirit can be resisted (Acts 7:51)

P- It is POTS (Perseverance of the Saints) not OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). 1 John 2:17 speaks to us of eternal security inasmuch as we continue to abide in the holiness of the Lord.

Furthermore, in Jeremiah 32:38-40, we find that the loophole that many find in John 10:27-30 is closed. If we fear the Lord, we will not depart from Him. And if we are in Him, no one can snatch us out of His hand. If no one can snatch us from His hand, if we don't fear Him we can walk away ourselves. But we are sealed by the fear of the Lord according to Jeremiah 32:38-40.

 

[David1701]

T- I believe that a person can receive Christ when he is drawn to Christ, that God enables him to receive Christ when he is drawn, and that all men are drawn thusly to Christ at some point (John 12:32). Unregenerate mankind is sinful and cannot do good. However, receiving Christ is not necessarily a "good work"...oftentimes it is based on a sinful fear as we are faced with the reality of hell.

1) You cannot be said to have been drawn to Christ, unless you have come to him; and he who comes to him will never be cast out.

2) You have invented a teaching that God merely "enables" people to receive Christ, which the Bible never teaches.

3) I strongly suspect that when Jesus said that he would draw all to him, that you have assumed that this means everyone without exception, rather than all categories of people (as contrasted with Jews only) without respect to how many individuals.

4) You don't "receive Christ" out of sinful fear! We are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves.

U- People are elected to salvation when they choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. God looks down from eternity and chooses them first based on His foreknowledge of their choosing Christ.

The Bible does not teach that people are elected to salvation when they believe in Jesus, nor that receiving him results from a sinner's choice.

To foreknow, in the Bible, when applied to people, means to choose beforehand.

Foreknow (proginosko)

BDAG:
προγινώσκω

1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.

2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

BDAG is THE foremost Greek Lexicon for NT Greek. As you can see, it clearly states that proginosko (to foreknow) means "choose beforehand", when it refers to someone (definition 2.), as contrasted with something (definition 1.).

L- The atonement is unlimited and its benefits are offered to everyone (1 John 2:2). However, not every person avails themselves of what Jesus did for them on the Cross. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; so the atonement is appropriated by faith. People choosing to reject Christ do not avail themselves of the atonement; which does not mean that Jesus didn't effectively die for them.

The Bible states that Jesus actually atoned, propitiated God and redeemed his people, when he died on cross. Your teaching would mean that Jesus did none of those things and merely accomplished a fictional potential atonement, contingent upon sinful man's choice for its efficacy. Your teaching is blasphemous.

I- grace and the Holy Spirit can be resisted (Acts 7:51)

The "I" in T.U.L.I.P. stands for Irresistible Saving Grace, not all kinds of grace.

P- It is POTS (Perseverance of the Saints) not OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). 1 John 2:17 speaks to us of eternal security inasmuch as we continue to abide in the holiness of the Lord.

Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints is the teaching that God works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure, so that we continue to believe in Jesus and bear good fruit. Those who return to the world are swine and dogs, who have not had a change of nature.

Furthermore, in Jeremiah 32:38-40, we find that the loophole that many find in John 10:27-30 is closed. If we fear the Lord, we will not depart from Him. And if we are in Him, no one can snatch us out of His hand. If no one can snatch us from His hand, if we don't fear Him we can walk away ourselves. But we are sealed by the fear of the Lord according to Jeremiah 32:38-40.

If someone has been born again, then he will not return to the world and he will overcome.

1 John 3:9 (EMTV) No-one who has been born of God practises sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:4 (EMTV) because everything having been born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world—your faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

1) You cannot be said to have been drawn to Christ, unless you have come to him; and he who comes to him will never be cast out.

2) You have invented a teaching that God merely "enables" people to receive Christ, which the Bible never teaches.

3) I strongly suspect that when Jesus said that he would draw all to him, that you have assumed that this means everyone without exception, rather than all categories of people (as contrasted with Jews only) without respect to how many individuals.

4) You don't "receive Christ" out of sinful fear! We are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves.


The Bible does not teach that people are elected to salvation when they believe in Jesus, nor that receiving him results from a sinner's choice.

To foreknow, in the Bible, when applied to people, means to choose beforehand.

Foreknow (proginosko)

BDAG:
προγινώσκω

1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.

2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

BDAG is THE foremost Greek Lexicon for NT Greek. As you can see, it clearly states that proginosko (to foreknow) means "choose beforehand", when it refers to someone (definition 2.), as contrasted with something (definition 1.).


The Bible states that Jesus actually atoned, propitiated God and redeemed his people, when he died on cross. Your teaching would mean that Jesus did none of those things and merely accomplished a fictional potential atonement, contingent upon sinful man's choice for its efficacy. Your teaching is blasphemous.


The "I" in T.U.L.I.P. stands for Irresistible Saving Grace, not all kinds of grace.


Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints is the teaching that God works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure, so that we continue to believe in Jesus and bear good fruit. Those who return to the world are swine and dogs, who have not had a change of nature.


If someone has been born again, then he will not return to the world and he will overcome.

1 John 3:9 (EMTV) No-one who has been born of God practises sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:4 (EMTV) because everything having been born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world—your faith.

I've heard it all before. You people are preaching a different gospel that is not biblical; and I am inclined to do what it says in Galatians 1:6-9 and just let you be.

 

[David1701]

I've heard it all before. You people are preaching a different gospel that is not biblical; and I am inclined to do what it says in Galatians 1:6-9 and just let you be.

What I posted was entirely biblical (salvation is of the Lord). What you posted was a false gospel (salvation is decided by fallen man's sinful will).

 

[GoKart Mozart]

The five points of Calvinism are Total depravity (T), Unconditional Election (U), Limited Atonement (L), Irresistible Grace (I), and Perseverance of the Saints (P). The five points are often referred to by the Acronym "TULIP".


(Thread title)
Is TULIP biblical?

In the sense that it is developed from verses in Holy Scripture, yes.
The same can be said of the Five Articles of Remonstrance. The Arminian FACT is Biblical in the same fashion.
Charasmatic doctrine is derived from the Bible and is therefore Biblical in that sense of understanding. Cessationist typically present their arguments with passages of Scripture and consider them to be just as Biblical.

I'm mostly an outsider who lurks this forum from time to time, my observation is that many here seem to be devoted to a Calvanistic Centered Apologetics Ministry mindset (moreso than the moniker suggests).
If you are looking for affirmation, or confirmation bias, of the TULIP, you'll find plenty here.

 

[justbyfaith]

What I posted was entirely biblical (salvation is of the Lord). What you posted was a false gospel (salvation is decided by fallen man's sinful will).

Biblical salvation is found in Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, and Acts 2:38-39.

It is decidedly by what we do in order to procure salvation.

See also Acts 2:40 (kjv).

 

[David1701]

Biblical salvation is found in Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, and Acts 2:38-39.

It is decidedly by what we do in order to procure salvation.

See also Acts 2:40 (kjv).

Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works (what we do) lest anyone should boast.

Eph. 2:8-10 (Webster)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not by works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[justbyfaith]

Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works lest anyone should boast.

Eph. 2:8-10 (Webster)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not by works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So, obviously, what we do in order to procure salvation, in the verses in question, cannot be classified as works.

 

[turbomaniac]

Ι consider calvinism heretic dogma. They don't accept christian traditions, drinking and eating Jesus flesh and blood. Luther and Calvin made new Church as reaction to the bad things Pope did. I remind all Christians that the bishop of Rome started to be more proud than a Bishop must be from early 300 AD as as Saints said. This made him gradually arrogant thus the mistakes that Pope's Church made through centuries.

 

[turbomaniac]

In 1054 ad The Bishop of Rome named schesmatic and the Pope left from the Church that Jesus Christ made.

 

[Josheb]

So, obviously, what we do in order to procure salvation, in the verses in question, cannot be classified as works.

That is self-contradictory question begging and therefore incorrect.

What we do is works. What we work is works. The definition of the word "do," is "perform," "perform actions," or "achieve."

• What we do is works.
• What we perform is works.
• An action we perform is works.
• What we achieve is works.

So, no, what we do can obviously be classified as works and that is some serious scripture-twisting to make a verse that explicitly stets, "not by works," into "cannot be classified as works."

 

[justbyfaith]

That is self-contradictory question begging and therefore incorrect.

What we do is works. What we work is works. The definition of the word "do," is "perform," "perform actions," or "achieve."

• What we do is works.
• What we perform is works.
• An action we perform is works.
• What we achieve is works.

So, no, what we do can obviously be classified as works and that is some serious scripture-twisting to make a verse that explicitly stets, "not by works," into "cannot be classified as works."

So, you appear to be pitting Bible (Ephesians 2:9) against other Bible (Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, Acts 2:38-39).

I have reconciled them; but you want to make them contradict each other.

That is not sound hermeneutics.

 

[Josheb]

So, you appear to be pitting Bible (Ephesians 2:9) against other Bible (Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, Acts 2:38-39).

No, you appear to selectively proof-texting individual verses and failing to understand each of them in the context of their surrounding text. If you see contradictions, then it is because of your selective use of single verses, not my use of whole scripture. I have told you those scores of times.

I have reconciled them; but you want to make them contradict each other.

No you haven't! The fact that you just saw contradictions means your methods is contradictory!

That is not sound hermeneutics.

You are correct. Selectively using individual verse by removing them from their surrounding text and the whole of scripture is always and everywhere bad hermeneutics and I defy you to show one teacher teaching that practice is sound.


Provide such a source NOW, please.


Otherwise, stop using individual verses removed from the rest of their text.