Is There a Contradiction?

[Eleanor]

The better question is, what does scripture mean by spiritual body?

Sinless physical body.

 

[Josheb]

The better question is, what does scripture mean by "spiritual body"?

Sinless physical body.

Yes, you already said that.

First of all, the immortal (no death) spiritual (sinless) body is physical, it is not non-material.

Its change is a form of death only if the human spirit is separated from the human body.
Otherwise, it is a transformation (metamorphoo), as in the caterpillar to the butterfly.

What, then, do you say to...

None of us are promised a translation-type change of our bodies without our having physically died the one appointed time. Nobody gets off this planet without dying. Not even the believers at Christ's next return. "As in Adam, ALL die".

Afterall...

Hebrews 9:27 BLB
And inasmuch as it is apportioned to men [except for Enoch] to die once, and after this, judgment, so also Christ, having been offered once in order to bear the sins of many, will appear for a second time, apart from sin, to those awaiting him for salvation.

Men must die (apothanein). Btw, the caterpillar ceases to exist when it metamorphosizes into a butterfly.

John 3:3
Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

John 12:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.

1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.

According to Paul, the body that is raised is of a different kind.

Peter said the believers to whom he was writing were already born of imperishable seed (aphthartou).

1 Peter 1:22-23
Since you have purified your souls in obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brothers and sisters, fervently love one another from the heart, for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Yet Paul said the resurrection entailed our being raised and the perishable putting on imperishability, the mortal putting on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So also is the resurrection of the dead [nekros]. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.


Is the spiritual body also a natural body? Or is a spiritual body entirely different than a natural body?

 

[Eleanor]

The better question is, what does scripture mean by "spiritual body"?
Yes, you already said that.
What, then, do you say to...
Afterall...
Hebrews 9:27 BLB
And inasmuch as it is apportioned to men [except for Enoch] to die once, and after this, judgment, so also Christ, having been offered once in order to bear the sins of many, will appear for a second time, apart from sin, to those awaiting him for salvation.

And if Enoch, why not those alive when Jesus comes, 1 Co 15:51-52?

Men must die (apothanein). Btw, the caterpillar ceases to exist when it metamorphosizes into a butterfly.

Nope. . .the butterfly is the same being as the caterpillar, it merely changes its form, it trans-forms (Gr: metamorphoo).

Just as the seed is the same being as the plant, it just changes its form.

John 3:3
Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.
John 12:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
According to Paul, the body that is raised is of a different kind.

Peter said the believers to whom he was writing were already born of imperishable seed (aphthartou).

Peter is referring to the rebirth, regeneration (Jn 3:3-5).

1 Peter 1:22-23
Since you have purified your souls in obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brothers and sisters, fervently love one another from the heart, for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
Yet Paul said the resurrection entailed our being raised and the perishable putting on imperishability, the mortal putting on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So also is the resurrection of the dead [nekros]. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Is the spiritual body also a natural body? Or is a spiritual body entirely different than a natural body?

The spiritual body is the resurrected sinless physical body,
The natural body is the sinful birth physical body.

Paul indicates continuity as well as change with the natural (sinful) physical body of birth and the spiritual (sinless) physical body of the resurrection (1 Co 15:42-44).

Much non/mis-understanding here. . .

I recommend a deep dive into the whole NT, in the light of the Holy Spirit, and with a good commentary.
Perhaps Arial could recommend a Commentary.

 

[Viking123]

Is there a contradiction between these two verses?

Hebrews 9:27 BLB
And inasmuch as it is apportioned to men to die once, and after this, judgment, 28 so also Christ, having been offered once in order to bear the sins of many, will appear for a second time, apart from sin, to those awaiting Him for salvation.

Hebrews 11:5 BLB
By faith Enoch was translated not to see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him up. For before the translation, he was commended to have pleased God.


The first verse states men is apportioned to die once but the second states Enoch did not see death. And if not, then how are these two verses reconciled so as not to contradict one another? Scripture elsewhere implies resurrection (in Christ) is the means of transformation unto eternal life. Jesus, who is the resurrection and the life without whom no one can reach the Father or have eternal life, and resurrection implies a receding death (if there is no death then from what might that person be raised or resurrected and thereby transformed into immortality or eternal life?). Assuming Enoch believed in Christ, how is it he was able to be translated (transformed?) without the apportioned death and judgment of Hebrews 9:27, and then be raised from that death (ala 1 Corinthians 15:36)?

Enoch died. He didn't die a gruesome or painful death. God just ended his existence. No man entered heaven before Jesus did after his death.
Enoch never heard of Jesus. He may have known of a Messiah coming but did not know his name.

 

[Eleanor]

Enoch died.

You are in disagreement with Scripture.

He didn't die a gruesome or painful death. God just ended his existence.

Man's existence does not end when his spirit departs his body in human death.

No man entered heaven before Jesus did after his death.
Enoch never heard of Jesus. He may have known of a Messiah coming but did not know his name.

Which has nothing to do with the Biblical facts.

Your notions are contra-Biblical.

 

[Viking123]

You are in disagreement with Scripture.

Man's existence does not end when his spirit departs his body in human death.

Which has nothing to do with the Biblical facts.

Your notions are contra-Biblical.

John 3:13

 

[Eleanor]

John 3:13

In context, refers to the occurrence of Jesus' knowledge as in heaven (from when he was in heaven before his birth) as distinct from the prophets' knowledge which came down from heaven in inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

And like Christ, Paul also received his knowledge while in heaven (2 Co 12:1-4, 7-9).

 

[Viking123]

In context, refers to the occurrence of Jesus' knowledge as in heaven (from when he was in heaven before his birth) as distinct from the prophets' knowledge which came down from heaven in inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

And like Christ, Paul also received his knowledge while in heaven (2 Co 12:1-4, 7-9).

You are twisting it.

 

[Eleanor]

You are twisting it.

I find it totally consistent that all revelation not given in the OT is received in heaven, by both Jesus and Paul, and transmitted to earth.

Please Biblically demonstrate the Biblical error in post #87.

If you cannot, then your claim is without Biblical basis and, therefore, without merit.

The ball is in your court.

 

[Viking123]

I find it totally consistent that all revelation not given in the OT is received in heaven, by both Jesus and Paul, and transmitted to earth.

Please Biblically demonstrate the Biblical error in post #87.

If you cannot, then your claim is without Biblical basis and, therefore, without merit.

The ball is in your court.

You best pray to Jesus' Father for light.

 

[Eleanor]

You best pray to Jesus' Father for light.Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26

Actually, spiritual light is the province of the divine person, Holy Spirit, whom Jesus says is sent by both the first divine person, the Father (Jn 14:26), as well as by the second divine person, the Son (Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26, Ac 2:33).

 

[Mr GLee]

In context, refers to the occurrence of Jesus' knowledge as in heaven (from when he was in heaven before his birth) as distinct from the prophets' knowledge which came down from heaven in inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

And like Christ, Paul also received his knowledge while in heaven (2 Co 12:1-4, 7-9).

Dying flesh and blood could never enter the new order .

In the way he did not see death (spiritual )The same with all believer who have passed from death to eternal life

The shortest verse in the Bible . Jesus wept (John 11:38) at there unbelief, no faith none

In that way Christ defines death . Wake up Lazarus sleepy head

John11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

You could say dead from the things of this world, the power of death, never to rise to new spirit life