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Introduction to Eschatology Schemes...

  • Thread starter Thread starter ReverendRV
  • Start date Start date
I'm looking to give you positive arguments by eliminating negative and untrue arguments. But that takes discussion and no small amount of reading. There is no "magic bullet". Let me give you a positive statement:

Both Covenantal and Dispensational Theology agree on the Gospel. There...a positive statement that might sound controversial to some. Not only is it positive but it also puts the disagreements between the two camps outside "critical" doctrine.
This is the only Gospel Tract I've written about Eschatology. Would this be a Positive reason to be Premill?

Rapture ready ~ by ReverendRV * August 26

Joshua 6:20 NASB
; So the people shouted, and priests blew the trumpets; and when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, the people shouted with a great shout and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight ahead, and they took the city.

God delivered Israel from slavery while in Egypt, and promised the people a Land for themselves. God made them mighty, and fear spread to all who were in their way. One such place was Jericho, and they trusted in their city walls to keep them safe. God told Joshua to walk around the city six days and on the seventh day to do it seven times; then the Priests would blow trumpets and all the people would shout! When this was done, the walls of Jericho fell down and the people entered the city. ~ Rahab the Harlot previously made a Treaty with Israel by hiding two of their Spies. She hung a scarlet thread out her of window at the time of the attack so she could be saved. ~ Jericho’s Ruins have been found, and there’s a dispute about the Dating of its destruction; but if the Bible is true, it was just what we expected to find…

If the Bible’s true, we can always expect to find the Truth. ~ Have you ever had a god other than the God of the Bible? This was true of those living in Jericho. Have you ever thought of God as something Unreal? Then you’ve made a god to suit yourself; this is Idolatry. Have you ever used the name of God as a vile cuss word? This is called Blasphemy; if there is a God, could any wall keep you safe from him? Did you go to Church this week? You haven’t kept the Sabbath Holy. These are just four of the Ten Commandments, not including Lying and Stealing, which we all have done. Now we’ve walked around your walls six times, are you ready for a seventh? If God judged you by his standards, would you be innocent or guilty? Will you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you?? When the trumpets blow, you’ll fall with a shout...

You need a strong tower to take refuge in! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Jesus is the Spotless lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the world. He’s the only person who deserves to go to Heaven on his own, but will not go alone; he trades his Righteousness with all who will dare hang their scarlet thread for him to see. He died on a Cross to pay for Sins, shed his scarlet blood for the Remission of Sins and to turn the Wrath of God away from us. He died, was buried three days but arose to new Life! We’re Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without our ever Working to be rescued. Repent of your Sin, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and join a Bible believing Church that has a heart for the Lost. ~ The Bible teaches about the end of the world but before this happens the Rapture will occur; but what’s that? It’s when Jesus will return for his Church with a trumpet blast, with the voice of an Archangel; we’ll rise to be with him forever. But when the last trump blows it’s too late…

1st Thessalonians 4:16 NASB; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
 
The rub, for me, will always run into one major critical issue. God is not done with national Israel. No matter how hard the Covenantal folk try to get rid of the Jews they won't go away because God won't allow it. There are promises made to Israel that do not, and cannot, apply to the church. Those promises are still in the future as:
1. They have not happened yet.
2. God keeps His promises. Exactly. Perfectly. 100%

How that works out is where the fun starts.
That's a Positive reason. This is the kind of thing I'm interested in...
 
This is the only Gospel Tract I've written about Eschatology. Would this be a Positive reason to be Premill?

Rapture ready ~ by ReverendRV * August 26

I believe that all the dogs in this race believe that Christ is returning for His bride. "Rapture" tends toward Premil ( I'm not aware of Amil nor Post holding too the catching away ). This also sidesteps the "when" of the Rapture...pre, mid, or post. Not a bad thing but I don't believe the Bride can undergo the type of "tribulation" described in the Great Tribulation.
 
I believe that all the dogs in this race believe that Christ is returning for His bride. "Rapture" tends toward Premil ( I'm not aware of Amil nor Post holding too the catching away ). This also sidesteps the "when" of the Rapture...pre, mid, or post. Not a bad thing but I don't believe the Bride can undergo the type of "tribulation" described in the Great Tribulation.[/b]
Yeah, I can be a Mutt when it comes to Eschatology. There are Positive reasons in each Eschatology, and there are Negatives in each Eschatology. It's almost as if a new Eschatological scheme is needed...
 
Yeah, I can be a Mutt when it comes to Eschatology. There are Positive reasons in each Eschatology, and there are Negatives in each Eschatology. It's almost as if a new Eschatological scheme is needed...
Which hits upon the second reason why I started digging on this topic. The "reformed" eschatology was, more or less, imported whole cloth from the RCC. There was a minor edit in that the RCC became the city on the hills...but that is neither here nor there. RCC eschatology is Amil.

For that reason alone I have suspicions. But that's a negative.
 
Which hits upon the second reason why I started digging on this topic. The "reformed" eschatology was, more or less, imported whole cloth from the RCC. There was a minor edit in that the RCC became the city on the hills...but that is neither here nor there. RCC eschatology is Amil.

For that reason alone I have suspicions. But that's a negative.
Do you understand why I am worried that my adhering to Premillenial Dispensational Eschatology, could cause me to abandon the Positive reasons to accept Covenant Theology; and start favoring Premillenial Dispensationalism for Negative Reasons instead?

Because changing one Doctrine, has a Dimino Effect on the rest of your Doctrines...
 
Do you understand why I am worried that my adhering to Premillenial Dispensational Eschatology, could cause me to abandon the Positive reasons to accept Covenant Theology; and start favoring Premillenial Dispensational Theology for Negative Reasons instead?

Sure...and that is a concern held by both Covenantal theologians and Dispensational theologians...so the charitable ones are quietly hammering away at were we can actually meet in harmony. This is why you see both sides, also, quietly reforming as they should. Always reforming. That's the rally cry.

But it takes a lot of work and the work may not be finished prior to the Lord's return. But, to me, that's ok as long as the work is done. I'm not trying to change minds or hearts here. I'm trying to show that work still needs to be done in honor of the Lord. I just *happen* to fall on the Dispensational side because that's what people call me due to my views on national and ethnic Israel.
 
Sure...and that is a concern held by both Covenantal theologians and Dispensational theologians...so the charitable ones are quietly hammering away at were we can actually meet in harmony. This is why you see both sides, also, quietly reforming as they should. Always reforming. That's the rally cry.

But it takes a lot of work and the work may not be finished prior to the Lord's return. But, to me, that's ok as long as the work is done. I'm not trying to change minds or hearts here. I'm trying to show that work still needs to be done in honor of the Lord. I just *happen* to fall on the Dispensational side because that's what people call me due to my views on national and ethnic Israel.
One reason I can appreciate the good points in a different Eschatology, is because I'm a Fundamentalist. It's Fundamental that God is not finished with Israel, and those in the Church Age will have to be Cut-Off; for Israel to be Grafted back in...

This doesn't mean I can be a Dispensationalist though, because of the Positive reasons for me to be a Covenantalist...
 
I'm using the term "Positive Reasons" a lot these days. It's because in Argumentation, a Negative cannot dismiss a Positive. If I have one Positive Reason that the Bible is what it claims to be, but an Atheist has ten Negative reasons not to believe the Bible is what it claims to be; the ten do not out-vote the one. Argumentation is not a Democracy...
 
Do you understand why I am worried that my adhering to Premillenial Dispensational Eschatology, could cause me to abandon the Positive reasons to accept Covenant Theology; and start favoring Premillenial Dispensationalism for Negative Reasons instead?

Because changing one Doctrine, has a Dimino Effect on the rest of your Doctrines...
Just a question ...
  • Has God the right to "divorce" his unfaithful wife (discard the Old Covenant) per the terms of that covenant, and make a new covenant to replace it?
  • Has God the right to make a covenent with Abraham (and keep it) and then make a new covenant with Jacob (and keep it) and make a new covenant through Jesus (and keep all three covenants)?
... so whatever the ESCHATOLOGY, has God not the right to either KEEP or DISCARD Israel as He wills?

[I don't think Covenant Theology is innately incompatible with anything that God chooses to do.]
 
Just a question ...
  • Has God the right to "divorce" his unfaithful wife (discard the Old Covenant) per the terms of that covenant, and make a new covenant to replace it?
  • Has God the right to make a covenent with Abraham (and keep it) and then make a new covenant with Jacob (and keep it) and make a new covenant through Jesus (and keep all three covenants)?
... so whatever the ESCHATOLOGY, has God not the right to either KEEP or DISCARD Israel as He wills?

[I don't think Covenant Theology is innately incompatible with anything that God chooses to do.]
This could be a detour from Eschatology, using Negative Argumentation instead of Positive Argumentation...

In Covenant Theology, there are just three Covenants; the Covenants of Redemption, Works and Grace. Therefore, the Edenic Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant are the same Covenant of Works. Likewise, the Abrahamic Covenant and the New Covenant are the same Covenant of Grace...

Dispensations draw a distinction between every Sub-Covenant; and so does Covenantalism; but not to the point the Sub-Covenants aren't One Hypostasis of a larger Covenant...

Under the Covenant of Works, God has the Right to Divorce Israel; but God doesn't have the Right to Divorce Israel under the New Covenant. Once Saved Always Saved is True...

Back to Eschatology? Just know ahead of time, I am looking for Positive Points to favor Premillenialism; not Negative resaons to stop favoring Amillenialism...
 
One reason I can appreciate the good points in a different Eschatology, is because I'm a Fundamentalist. It's Fundamental that God is not finished with Israel, and those in the Church Age will have to be Cut-Off; for Israel to be Grafted back in.

Are you sure that's what it says or is that tradition speaking? :)
 
That's not Controversial to me Brother. This is a good reason to allow them both into the Pale of Orthodoxy...

But what makes one Eschatology more favorable than the other?
Much of dispensational theology contradicts other authoritative NT apostolic teaching, some going so far as teaching two different bodies of Christ.
 
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The rub, for me, will always run into one major critical issue. God is not done with national Israel. No matter how hard the Covenantal folk try to get rid of the Jews they won't go away because God won't allow it. There are promises made to Israel that do not, and cannot, apply to the church. Those promises are still in the future as:
1. They have not happened yet.
2. God keeps His promises. Exactly. Perfectly. 100%

How that works out is where the fun starts.
I would be interested on knowing what those are, if you can list them, or some, and where they are in Scripture.
 
I believe that all the dogs in this race believe that Christ is returning for His bride. "Rapture" tends toward Premil ( I'm not aware of Amil nor Post holding too the catching away ). This also sidesteps the "when" of the Rapture...pre, mid, or post. Not a bad thing but I don't believe the Bride can undergo the type of "tribulation" described in the Great Tribulation.
I'm amil and I believe 1 Th 4:16-17.
 
Which hits upon the second reason why I started digging on this topic. The "reformed" eschatology was, more or less, imported whole cloth from the RCC. There was a minor edit in that the RCC became the city on the hills...but that is neither here nor there. RCC eschatology is Amil.

For that reason alone I have suspicions. But that's a negative.
The early church was amil?
 
Much of dispensational theology contradicts other authoritative NT apostolic teaching, some going to far as teaching two different bodies of Christ.
Again...As I stated earlier in this thread this is incorrect. There is a very short book that touches upon many of the myths and misunderstandings about Dispensationalism available. It's even affordable. Free if you have Kindle.

 
Again...As I stated earlier in this thread this is incorrect. There is a very short book that touches upon many of the myths and misunderstandings about Dispensationalism available. It's even affordable. Free if you have Kindle.

Okay, I will seek out this book as the first one for me to read. I probably need a new Kindle account first...
 
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