If the Wailing Wall is the Remains of the Temple Then Jesus Made A False Prophecy

[Josheb]

Jesus specifically said NO stone would remain on another. Wall. Court. Paving. Column. No stone on top of another.

No, he did not. This has already been pointed out to you several times. The wall is not specified, the buildings are what is specified. Buildings. NOT wall. No stone left atop another.

Complete and utter destruction.

Yep.

And Josephus described that exact thing.

Yep.

After the army was done, no one could even tell that any structure had ever been there.

Incorrect. No one could tell the temple had been there. It was still apparent a the remnants of a city existed because cuboid stones laying about do not occur spontaneously. That was the point: God wanted everyone to know judgment had come and descturction is what happens when God is denied.

The entire temple site was turned into a garbage/human waste dump.

Yep.

The only thing left was the Roman Antonia Fortress - where the garrison lived.

So what? What does that have to do with prophecy? Why is it so important to you that everyone acknowledge the Roman fort when every agrees the temple was destroyed and prophecy fulfilled? Why do you keep avoiding this question?

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

No, he did not. This has already been pointed out to you several times. The wall is not specified, the buildings are what is specified. Buildings. NOT wall. No stone left atop another.

Yep.

Yep.

Incorrect. No one could tell the temple had been there. It was still apparent a the remnants of a city existed because cuboid stones laying about do not occur spontaneously. That was the point: God wanted everyone to know judgment had come and descturction is what happens when God is denied.

Yep.

So what? What does that have to do with prophecy? Why is it so important to you that everyone acknowledge the Roman fort when every agrees the temple was destroyed and prophecy fulfilled? Why do you keep avoiding this question?

You still have no idea about what architectural construction is all about. Displaying ignorance of this topic does you no favors.

 

[Josheb]

You still have no idea about what architectural construction is all about.

If I use your metrics, and apply your metrics to your posts, holding you accountable solely to your rules then you still have no idea how to hold an intelligent conversation.

The facts on my end are that I used to own a construction business and am personally educated, trained, and practiced in "architectural construction." I did, in fact just finish a $600,000 construction project this past August. The sheer idiocy contained in that statement cannot be measured.

The facts of scripture are as stated: the text of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 specify buildings, not walls. You, apparently, still have no idea about what scripture means when it explicitly states "walls" and nowhere mentions "walls." In the context in which Jesus was using the word, an "oikodomḗ" is a building used as a dwelling, a home. "oika" and "doma" can both mean "house" (although they typically refer to different aspects of a house) so Jesus was using a term that emphasized and specified the house of God.

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house (oikos) is being left to you desolate!

And just a few minutes later, on his way out of the temple in which he had just lambasted the Pharisees, telling them their house was desolate he said,

Matthew 24:1-2
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings (oikodomas) to Him. And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."

Oikos can also refer to lineage or household. The oikos of Daivd is the "house" or "household" of David, just as the "house of God" does not refer at all to a building of brick or stone. The fact is the house of the Pharisees was destroyed, not one "brick" left atop another and that had absolutely nothing to do with any Roman fortress.


The facts of reality are that walls are not buildings. Walls are built, but that does not make them buildings. You, apparently, still have no idea what architectural construction is all about, any more than you know anything about cogent discourse or exegetical reading of scripture, or the relevance of Roman buildings to Jesus words (i.e.., none).

Displaying ignorance of this topic does you no favors.

Look in the mirror.


You also, apparently, do not know how to answer valid, op-relevant questions directly or immediately when asked - even when they come from people who agree with the overall point the temple was destroyed in accordance with prophecy. Let's try it again:

• What does the Roman fort have to do with prophecy?
• Why is it so important to you that everyone acknowledge the Roman fort when every agrees the temple was destroyed and prophecy fulfilled?
• Why do you keep avoiding this question?

Surely answers exist. Was it expected no one would ask?

 

[Runningman]

This is an important realization. If any part of the temple still exists, then Jesus' prophecy is not true. Can you accept that?

Fortunately, in Mark 13, some important information is added to gives the prophecy some wiggle room to complete in the future. This isn't a failed prophecy.

Mark 13
1As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look at the magnificent stones and buildings!”
2“Do you see all these great buildings?” Jesus replied. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”

5Jesus began by telling them, “See to it that no one deceives you. 6Many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. 7When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, as well as famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

19For those will be days of tribulation unmatched from the beginning of God’s creation until now, and never to be seen again. 20If the Lord had not cut short those days, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom He has chosen, He has cut them short.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Fortunately, in Mark 13, some important information is added to gives the prophecy some wiggle room to complete in the future. This isn't a failed prophecy.

Mark 13
1As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look at the magnificent stones and buildings!”
2“Do you see all these great buildings?” Jesus replied. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”

5Jesus began by telling them, “See to it that no one deceives you. 6Many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. 7When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, as well as famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

19For those will be days of tribulation unmatched from the beginning of God’s creation until now, and never to be seen again. 20If the Lord had not cut short those days, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom He has chosen, He has cut them short.

Of course Jesus didn't make a false prophecy. It is modern man and the many people on this forum who display such ignorance of history and basic architectural design that is the problem.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Fortunately, in Mark 13, some important information is added to gives the prophecy some wiggle room to complete in the future. This isn't a failed prophecy.

Mark 13
1As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look at the magnificent stones and buildings!”
2“Do you see all these great buildings?” Jesus replied. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”

5Jesus began by telling them, “See to it that no one deceives you. 6Many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. 7When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, as well as famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

19For those will be days of tribulation unmatched from the beginning of God’s creation until now, and never to be seen again. 20If the Lord had not cut short those days, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom He has chosen, He has cut them short.

And again, not interested if you can not even display comprehension of the FACTS in the original post. Continue trying to argue - I'm just not interested.

 

[Mr GLee]

f you believe that Messiah Jesus was always correct, how do you explain Mark 13:1-2, Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 21:5-6?

[Mar 13:1-2 LSB] 1 And as He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" 2 And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

It's very clear that the New Testament Gospel writers record that Jesus predicted total and complete destruction of the 2nd temple complex. It is verified and accepted history that the Roman army beseiged, captured and ultimately destroyed the temple and the city walls in 70 AD

In Matthew 23 when Jesus walked out of the abomination of desolation (making the living word of God to no efect. for the last time he declared the abomination of desolation King in Israel is desolate not wil be is .

The atheist Jew in jealousy demanded a KIng to reign over them like all the other surrounding pagan nations God said to His apostle Samuel the prophet. . its not you seen that they reject as King of kings but me the unseen King of king. He sent them a strong delusion so that can keep believing the lie He gave them over to do that which should not til the time of the first century reformation .The restoring the Government of faith, the unseen things of God .The King of kings and Lord of lords. Using the whole time period of Kings in Israel as a parable giving us the signified gospel understanding

Temples of stone built with humans as a will. of dying mankind have never been approved by God. The believers beginning with Abel the prophet living living temple. A living being not the dead

Kings in Israel the abomination of desolation . Again not one good seal of God's approval

In that way you could say let the dead bury dead. let the living temples live and move

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Acts 17:24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

In Matthew 23 when Jesus walked out of the abomination of desolation (making the living word of God to no efect. for the last time he declared the abomination of desolation King in Israel is desolate not wil be is .

The atheist Jew in jealousy demanded a KIng to reign over them like all the other surrounding pagan nations God said to His apostle Samuel the prophet. . its not you seen that they reject as King of kings but me the unseen King of king. He sent them a strong delusion so that can keep believing the lie He gave them over to do that which should not til the time of the first century reformation .The restoring the Government of faith, the unseen things of God .The King of kings and Lord of lords. Using the whole time period of Kings in Israel as a parable giving us the signified gospel understanding

Temples of stone built with humans as a will. of dying mankind have never been approved by God. The believers beginning with Abel the prophet living living temple. A living being not the dead

Kings in Israel the abomination of desolation . Again not one good seal of God's approval

In that way you could say let the dead bury dead. let the living temples live and move

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Acts 17:24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Your very first sentence is factually incorrect. Everything else your write is wrong.

 

[Josheb]

Your very first sentence is factually incorrect.

I'm gonna side with @Mr. Glee here.

The abomination was the desolation. Desolation is abominable to God and He says so often throughout the OT (including in Daniel). It began in Genesis 1:2 and a study of the Hebrew bohu and wabohu informs the matter. Modern futurists typically ignore ALL of that. The abomination of desolation is the fact desolation is abominable and Israel was desolate. Jesus declared the Pharisee's house desolate. It was an abomination.

Everything else your write is wrong.

In some places he is mistaken (what, exactly, would be an "atheist Jew"?) but his foundational premise is correct and everything you build ignoring that particular fact of scripture is - by your own metric - wrong.


Try to learn from each other. Use the whole Word as the measure.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

I'm gonna side with @Mr. Glee here.

The abomination was the desolation. Desolation is abominable to God and He says so often throughout the OT (including in Daniel). It began in Genesis 1:2 and a study of the Hebrew bohu and wabohu informs the matter. Modern futurists typically ignore ALL of that. The abomination of desolation is the fact desolation is abominable and Israel was desolate. Jesus declared the Pharisee's house desolate. It was an abomination.

In some places he is mistaken (what, exactly, would be an "atheist Jew"?) but his foundational premise is correct and everything you build ignoring that particular fact of scripture is - by your own metric - wrong.


Try to learn from each other. Use the whole Word as the measure.

It doesn't matter if you agree or not. His statement is not factually or historically accurate. Everything that flows from that assumption is just wrong. End of the matter.

 

[Mr GLee]

Your very first sentence is factually incorrect. Everything else your write is wrong.

Ok what the facts ? Kings in israel is not the abomination of desolation ? And temples build with human hand is approved by God?

What does the abomination of desolation make desolate?

Just what is that I am supposed to agree with?

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Ok what the facts ? Kings in israel is not the abomination of desolation ? And temples build with human hand is approved by God?

What does the abomination of desolation make desolate?

Just what is that I am supposed to agree with?

It is up to you to PROVE your statement as correct factually and historically. Show the proof.

 

[Mr GLee]

It is up to you to PROVE your statement as correct factually and historically. Show the proof.

We preach he shows proof by comparing the spiritual things not seen to the same called faith (Christ's power ) to faith Christ's .

The historical foundation of atheist Jew gathering themselves together not call by our heavenly Father.Therefore demanding they have a earthly King dying mankind like all the surrounding Pagan nations of the world. Rather than serve "invisible" God as King of kings and lord of lords. they make God or Holy Father desolate so that men might serve the flesh of dying mankind oral traditions and not the Eternal Holy Spirit of God the one good teaching master .

1 Samuel 8: 6-10 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, (make desolate) that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me,(made desolate) and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king

The whole period of time there was Kings in Israel was used as a parable or shadow of the sufferings of Christ before hand .

1 Peter 1:10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory (the first century reformation the cross ) that should follow.

When the first century reformation came it restored the order spoken of in Joel. the Judges apostles as prophets men and women. No woman prophets when there was kings in Israel. (men only club) separating the Jewish women from the men with a high wall an another wall separating the Jew from the gentile but when the first century reformation came the shadows that spoke of the sufferings beforehand became substance losing its usefulness to make the word of God desolate, Again when the first century reformation came

Acts 2:15-17King James VersionFor these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh(every nation): and your sons and your daughters (Not men only) shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Aain restored the goverment of God destroying the goverment of dying mankind it to the period of Judges The Holy Spirit sending out apostles beginning with the apostle Abel with many to follow like Debora or Rehab, female apostles Not a men only religion

Hebrew 9:8-11 The Holy Ghost this signifying, ( the language of parables called figures) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only (shadows) in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances,(shadows) imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands(dying mankind) that is to say, not of this building

From my experience most do not even acknowledge the "first century reformation" that restored sola scriptura

Many still hope the dying flesh of a Jew could profit. But he informs us His (Son of man)) dying flesh profits for zreo. God is not a Jewish man the wiles of the evil one .

Many walked away without the hearing of faith that comes from hearing God (sola scritura0

John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.

Much more conversation of the 15th century reformation which is a carbon copy of the first century reformation.
Why mankind would rather serve dying flesh rather that the Spirit of Prophecy remains a mystery to me.

Will you deny the first century reformation has come and make the word of God desolate of the understanding of God like the atheist Jew in 1 Samuel 8??

What's your take on the first century reformation?

 

[Mr GLee]

If you believe that Messiah Jesus was always correct, how do you explain Mark 13:1-2, Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 21:5-6?

[Mar 13:1-2 LSB] 1 And as He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" 2 And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

It's very clear that the New Testament Gospel writers record that Jesus predicted total and complete destruction of the 2nd temple complex. It is verified and accepted history that the Roman army beseiged, captured and ultimately destroyed the temple and the city walls in 70 AD.

Yet, we are told by the Jewish religious leaders and archaeologists that a portion of that temple still exists. The Wailing Wall. The western portion of the temple mount. It is considered one of the most holy sites.

Both can not be true. Either Messiah Jesus is a liar or Jewish tradition is believing a lie. Oh, but the inventive minds of Christian scholars provide an answer. They get around this problem by stating that the Wailing Wall is only the retaining wall of the temple - not really part of the temple itself. However, Jesus said "not one stone will be left".

The what is called "wailing wall" as a idol image has no value in pleasing God . Before the disciples said the Son of man Jesus you must of had your eyes closed and desired he take a second.look as in did you not see the beauty

Not walking by faith the unseen spiritual things of God (Matthew 24 ) Before he walked out for the last time in the previous chapter he declared the abomination of desolation saying is desolate not wil be when a few more stones fall he destroyed the principle or spirt of the matter , relying on the seen things the temporal corrupted and not the unseen eternal .

Matthew 23: 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The mark of his word. What he say comes to pass. Is desolite not will be. No sign as to time periods were given to the believer to wonder or marvel after

Remember Satan is the king of lying signs that mankind wonders after. God is still sending a strong delusion that men might continue to walk by sight after the things seen the temporal and not the eternal faith as the power of God as it is written

Believers have prophecy sealed with 7 seals til the last day under the Sun h The last the sign tp wonder after the wondering is over the sign of Jonah was fulfilled

 

[Josheb]

It doesn't matter if you agree or not. His statement is not factually or historically accurate.

The onus is on you to prove that and not simply post baseless dissent.

Everything that flows from that assumption is just wrong. End of the matter.

Everything that flows from incorrect statement is likely to be incorrect. Yes, as a function of logic, that is true. But you have not proven his statement is incorrect. It simply differs from your perspective and that is not proof of anything. You could both be incorrect!

If the abomination of desolation is that desolation is abominable then Jesus' exit from the temple and the Pharisee's presence could be understood as his final exit from the abomination of desolation (although I might place that exit at Calvary, personally). Lot's of modern futurists incorrectly imagine the AoD is a person but that is never something scripture ever actually states. It is always and everywhere an assumption on the part of the modern futurist AND that assumption comes in denial of what I posted: from the beginning of the Bible God considers desolation abominable and in Matthew 23 he stated the Pharisees and their "house" (and by extension, Israel) was left desolate.

• Your house is left to you desolate.
• Desolation is abominable.
• Your house is an abomination of desolation.

You have to prove @Mr GLee's first statement is incorrect. Why? Because baseless accusation merits nothing. I might disagree with some of Glee's particulars (as well as his conclusion) but that first statement is not incorrect. You therefore cannot then also claim everything built on it is necessarily wrong.

Do the work.

Make your case and be convincing. Make that case withstand examination. I'm lurking .



Edit: @Mr GLee, do not think I am giving you a pass. I find some of your content equally shoddy. I simply haven't decided how much to address because I do not want to interfere with the exchange the two of you are (sorta) having. I think you both can and should do better.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

We preach he shows proof by comparing the spiritual things not seen to the same called faith (Christ's power ) to faith Christ's .

The historical foundation of atheist Jew gathering themselves together not call by our heavenly Father.Therefore demanding they have a earthly King dying mankind like all the surrounding Pagan nations of the world. Rather than serve "invisible" God as King of kings and lord of lords. they make God or Holy Father desolate so that men might serve the flesh of dying mankind oral traditions and not the Eternal Holy Spirit of God the one good teaching master .

1 Samuel 8: 6-10 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, (make desolate) that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me,(made desolate) and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king

The whole period of time there was Kings in Israel was used as a parable or shadow of the sufferings of Christ before hand .

1 Peter 1:10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory (the first century reformation the cross ) that should follow.

When the first century reformation came it restored the order spoken of in Joel. the Judges apostles as prophets men and women. No woman prophets when there was kings in Israel. (men only club) separating the Jewish women from the men with a high wall an another wall separating the Jew from the gentile but when the first century reformation came the shadows that spoke of the sufferings beforehand became substance losing its usefulness to make the word of God desolate, Again when the first century reformation came

Acts 2:15-17King James VersionFor these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh(every nation): and your sons and your daughters (Not men only) shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Aain restored the goverment of God destroying the goverment of dying mankind it to the period of Judges The Holy Spirit sending out apostles beginning with the apostle Abel with many to follow like Debora or Rehab, female apostles Not a men only religion

Hebrew 9:8-11 The Holy Ghost this signifying, ( the language of parables called figures) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only (shadows) in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances,(shadows) imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands(dying mankind) that is to say, not of this building

From my experience most do not even acknowledge the "first century reformation" that restored sola scriptura

Many still hope the dying flesh of a Jew could profit. But he informs us His (Son of man)) dying flesh profits for zreo. God is not a Jewish man the wiles of the evil one .

Many walked away without the hearing of faith that comes from hearing God (sola scritura0

John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.

Much more conversation of the 15th century reformation which is a carbon copy of the first century reformation.
Why mankind would rather serve dying flesh rather that the Spirit of Prophecy remains a mystery to me.

Will you deny the first century reformation has come and make the word of God desolate of the understanding of God like the atheist Jew in 1 Samuel 8??

What's your take on the first century reformation?

All of that and not a single shred of historical proof.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

The onus is on you to prove that and not simply post baseless dissent.

Everything that flows from incorrect statement is likely to be incorrect. Yes, as a function of logic, that is true. But you have not proven his statement is incorrect. It simply differs from your perspective and that is not proof of anything. You could both be incorrect!

If the abomination of desolation is that desolation is abominable then Jesus' exit from the temple and the Pharisee's presence could be understood as his final exit from the abomination of desolation (although I might place that exit at Calvary, personally). Lot's of modern futurists incorrectly imagine the AoD is a person but that is never something scripture ever actually states. It is always and everywhere an assumption on the part of the modern futurist AND that assumption comes in denial of what I posted: from the beginning of the Bible God considers desolation abominable and in Matthew 23 he stated the Pharisees and their "house" (and by extension, Israel) was left desolate.

• Your house is left to you desolate.
• Desolation is abominable.
• Your house is an abomination of desolation.

You have to prove @Mr GLee's first statement is incorrect. Why? Because baseless accusation merits nothing. I might disagree with some of Glee's particulars (as well as his conclusion) but that first statement is not incorrect. You therefore cannot then also claim everything built on it is necessarily wrong.

Do the work.

Make your case and be convincing. Make that case withstand examination. I'm lurking .

Ah, I see. You see a word that looks similar to something else and equate it as the same concept. That is such simple minded exegesis. Wow. It's like those who read Jesus' hyperbole about removing an eye if it causes one to stumble and they actually mutilate themselves. The explanation of the mysteries of God is wasted on people like these.

 

[Josheb]

All of that and not a single shred of historical proof.

That is just wrong.

The wailing wall is not a part of the temple building. That is a fact of history. Misguided and biased appeals to "basic architectural design" do not change that fact. Neither do misguided and biased appeals to "Roman forts."

The temple was destroyed. That is a fact of history. Misguided and biased appeals to "basic architectural design" do not change that fact. Neither do misguided and biased appeals to "Roman forts."

Not one stone of the temple was left atop another. That is a fact of history. Misguided and biased appeals to "basic architectural design" do not change that fact. Neither do misguided and biased appeals to "Roman forts."




Those disagreeing with this op, including @Mr GLee, do have "a single shred of historical proof." We have lots of historical proof. One of the most curious aspects of the thread is that EVERYONE replying to the op disagrees and there is no evidence the dissent (in all its various permutations) has not been given honest and just consideration.

Your very first sentence is factually incorrect. Everything else your write is wrong.

You should apply that to your own case because there are a number of statements that get scripture wrong, history wrong, and basic facts wrong. EVERYTHING built on those errors is also wrong. Lots of people weighed in to correct these many mistakes but all were contended with as if they could not possibly be correct. I do not know who or where you got the architectural-design-roman-fort argument but whoever that source is - he is wrong, too. I can only assume that were he here to defend his position he would be able to form a better defense than the one found in these seven pages.


Jesus was correct, and he was wholly correct: The temple was destroyed and not a single stone of the temple was left standing. It is because the prophecy HAS come true that we can trust God and His word. He HAS kept His word. We do not need to be in a constant state of unrealized hope because He already kept His word.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

That is just wrong.

The wailing wall is not a part of the temple building. That is a fact of history. Misguided and biased appeals to "basic architectural design" do not change that fact. Neither do misguided and biased appeals to "Roman forts."

The temple was destroyed. That is a fact of history. Misguided and biased appeals to "basic architectural design" do not change that fact. Neither do misguided and biased appeals to "Roman forts."

Not one stone of the temple was left atop another. That is a fact of history. Misguided and biased appeals to "basic architectural design" do not change that fact. Neither do misguided and biased appeals to "Roman forts."




Those disagreeing with this op, including @Mr GLee, do have "a single shred of historical proof." We have lots of historical proof. One of the most curious aspects of the thread is that EVERYONE replying to the op disagrees and there is no evidence the dissent (in all its various permutations) has not been given honest and just consideration.

You should apply that to your own case because there are a number of statements that get scripture wrong, history wrong, and basic facts wrong. EVERYTHING built on those errors is also wrong. Lots of people weighed in to correct these many mistakes but all were contended with as if they could not possibly be correct. I do not know who or where you got the architectural-design-roman-fort argument but whoever that source is - he is wrong, too. I can only assume that were he here to defend his position he would be able to form a better defense than the one found in these seven pages.


Jesus was correct, and he was wholly correct: The temple was destroyed and not a single stone of the temple was left standing. It is because the prophecy HAS come true that we can trust God and His word. He HAS kept His word. We do not need to be in a constant state of unrealized hope because He already kept His word.

You should probably read the original post and ACTUALLY understand what is being discussed before making such ignorant and misguided posts.

 

[Josheb]

You should probably read the original post and ACTUALLY understand what is being discussed before making such ignorant and misguided posts.

You should probably stick to making a polite, respectful, reasonable, rational, cogent and coherent case for the position asserted in this op instead of assuming things about others that cannot possibly know and telling others what to do. Especially since I have read the op multiple times, word for word, as well as every single post in these seven pages and no one should ever assume otherwise of ANYONE. Stop trying to make the thread about the posters and not this op's position (see rules 2, 6, 7 and 18).


The facts are as stated.

• Jesus was correct, and he was wholly correct.
• The temple was destroyed and destroyed exactly as reported in scripture; not one stone of the temple was left atop another.
• Jesus' words were correct.
• A wall is not part of the building it surrounds.
• The Roman fort has nothing to do with Jesus' statements about the temple in the gospels.
• Posting extra-biblical biases in support of man-made doctrines is worthless.
• It is because the prophecy HAS come true that we can trust God and His word. He HAS kept His word. We do not need to be in a constant state of unrealized hope because He already kept His word.
• Every single reply to this op has been that of dissent, every single reply and the uniform dissent has been resisted.
• Cases built on errors lead to incorrect conclusions and that concept should be self-applied to this op.
• Assuming others haven't read any post, did not understand the posts, and/or others can be told what to do is all dross.
• Ignoring any of the above points (especially the previous two) makes things worse, not better, and all that is expected is that a polite, respectful, reasonable, rational, cogent, and coherent case built on well-rendered scripture be posted and an examination of that case be engaged using the exact same metrics.

Stick to the thesis to be proven. Do it now because seven pages of posts have been written and this op still has not been proven correct. Work real hard to keep the mention of every other poster out of that case because none of us are the topic. Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters.