If Adam and Eve were a product of "evolutionism"....when, how and why did mankind fall?

[Rella]

I would tend to disagree. Sorry. I don't think angels were created with a sin nature.

Where did Lucifer's come from? He was going to be higher then God. If it was not within him to desire such then it would not have been unless you say "free will" made him want those things?

 

[Rella]

If they had a nature to sin they would all be sinners sinning.

Why? Thats like saying because we have a ton of rapists crossing our border every year because they get all hot and bothered that all men, when they also get hot and bothered are rapists.

But I still say that if it is not a sin nature, it is attributed to free will.

Lucifer was created. If God created him with a sinful nature then God created a sinful nature? If God created a sinful nature then God would have to possess sin himself.

WHY??????????????????? Frist man was created in "their" image. Not a word about a sin nature .

There is no where written where first man ... (or angels) ... were created identicle to God.

If we were there would have been no need for Jesus

Lucifer got his sinful nature the same way Adam did, and by tempting Eve with the very same thing. An effort to be like God in equality and power, and wisdom. Sin is not a "thing". It is an action that falls short of the glory of God.

False equivalence fallacy. There are other options. Lucifer was not obviously created with a sin nature, only that when we first hear of him he did have one. He too fell. Following him does not mean that all angels have sinful natures or that any were created with a sinful nature. What is true of angels does not make it also true of humans. None of the above solidifies the claim that angels or men or anything, was created with a nature to sin.

Yes, Shirley. Shirley was my mothers good friend and when her daughter was in grade school she had a friend who told a lot of lies. The daughter always told her mother.

Nasty tales getting other kids in trouble.... ans Shirley would tell my mom how awful such and such were because it was the truth...and insisted kids don't know how to lie.

In their teens the daughters friend was spreading a rumor that the daughter was pregnant and might have an abortion.

Guess who it was that actually had a baby?????????? it was NOT Shirleys daughter.

So she had no nature to sin????? Whatever.

 

[Arial]

Why? Thats like saying because we have a ton of rapists crossing our border every year because they get all hot and bothered that all men, when they also get hot and bothered are rapists.

No it isn't. What you are saying is exactly like that which is why I called it a false equivalence fallacy. Are you just here to argue?

But I still say that if it is not a sin nature, it is attributed to free will.

It is attributed to a will. There is no need of the distraction of qualifying that will as free. A person cannot do what they will not do. That is a will that is bound by the desires and motives of a person.

Yes, Shirley. Shirley was my mothers good friend and when her daughter was in grade school she had a friend who told a lot of lies. The daughter always told her mother.

Nasty tales getting other kids in trouble.... ans Shirley would tell my mom how awful such and such were because it was the truth...and insisted kids don't know how to lie.

In their teens the daughters friend was spreading a rumor that the daughter was pregnant and might have an abortion.

Guess who it was that actually had a baby?????????? it was NOT Shirleys daughter.

So she had no nature to sin????? Whatever.

You are welcome to post on the forum, but we are in the process of cleaning it up. So find a way to post that is less sarcastic and less derogatory. And has more meaningful meat. Thanks.

 

[Arial]

It is the law which exposes sinful flesh.

I didn't ask what exposes sin. I asked if God created a sinful nature in man, where did he get this sin to put into Adam?

 

[Arial]

WHY??????????????????? Frist man was created in "their" image. Not a word about a sin nature .

I'm not the one saying man was created with a sinful nature.

There is no where written where first man ... (or angels) ... were created identicle to God.

I never said he was. No one else did either. What Scripture does tell us is that man was created in the image and likeness of God. That means man is similar to God in some ways, and is exactly like him in no way. I honestly don't know where this is coming from. I certainly don't see how it relates to the post it is responding to in any way.

 

[LeviR]

I didn't ask what exposes sin. I asked if God created a sinful nature in man, where did he get this sin to put into Adam?

Who said He put sin into Adam’s flesh?
With the law comes the knowledge of sin. The law is made weak by the flesh.

 

[Arial]

Who said He put sin into Adam’s flesh?
With the law comes the knowledge of sin. The law is made weak by the flesh.

We still sin whether we have knowledge of it or not. And God still condemns us for it.

You said God created Adam with a sin nature. So I asked where God got that sin from to put in Adam's nature.

What is your definition of sin?
What is your definition of nature?

 

[Alive]

The nature of a thing is always ‘kind’.
It’s best to keep these things simple.
We, as humans, will complicate those things, according to and relative to where we focus.
And I mean, in context…the elect.

 

[LeviR]

We still sin whether we have knowledge of it or not. And God still condemns us for it.

You said God created Adam with a sin nature. So I asked where God got that sin from to put in Adam's nature.

What is your definition of sin?
What is your definition of nature?

The flesh becomes sinful with the giving of law.

Sin is the transgression of the law of God.
Nature is the constitution of something.

 

[CrowCross]

Who gave it to him?

No one gave it to them.

 

[CrowCross]

Did Eve eat first? And then got Adam to? Or did they both eat about the same time.?

Eve ate first. I'm not sure if Adam was present at the moment Eve ate.

3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’ ”

4 aThe serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!

5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and ayou will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

I think Adam ate because he saw her still alive and maybe a bit wiser...................

Maybe. I don't think we can really know. The bible does say Adam wasn't deceived.

1 Tim 2:14. and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

 

[CrowCross]

I don't subscribe to the Calvinist notion of a "sin nature".

OK.

 

[CrowCross]

That’s too funny. You are saying that after Adam sinned his nature became sinful.
No, he sinned because his nature was sinful.

When you get hooked on narcotics...are you hooked because you were a drug addict or because the drugs caused you to be a drug addict?

 

[CrowCross]

Where did Lucifer's come from? He was going to be higher then God. If it was not within him to desire such then it would not have been unless you say "free will" made him want those things?

Unless I left out something....all the bible says is...15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28:15

 

[LeviR]

When you get hooked on narcotics...are you hooked because you were a drug addict or because the drugs caused you to be a drug addict?

What caused you to try it in the first place?

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

If Adam and Eve were a product of [human evolution, then] when, how, and why did mankind fall?

I am not a theistic evolutionist. However, since I'm an old-earth creationist who accepts evolution, I will engage this question.

When: Approximately 6,000 years ago.

How: By disobeying God.

Why: Because they wanted to be their own authority.

I don't have the answer

Well, now you do.

All I know is what the Bible says about the fall, and not what the [theistic evolutionist] says.

If you know what the Bible says about it, then you know what at least this evolutionary creationist says about it.

Thing is the theistic evolutionists are hush hush concerning this answer.

Maybe they work for a living, and perhaps they're raising a family. Consider me as an example. It's not as if I've been avoiding your question, it's just that our time is limited and we end up missing a lot of the new threads that get started here.

But I happened to see it this morning and happily replied because I love this subject. And now I'll receive notifications about it.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

The nature of a thing is always ‘kind’.
It’s best to keep these things simple.
We, as humans, will complicate those things, according to and relative to where we focus.
And I mean, in context…the elect.

You could almost say it's our nature to complicate things.

 

[CrowCross]

What caused you to try it in the first place?

The cause doesn't matter. The point is you were not...then you did something and now you are. It's not that A&E always were, but what they became.

Either way mankind needs Christ Jesus to be their savior. To forgive and cleanse them so the perishable can be raised imperishable.....back to the pre fallen state.

 

[CrowCross]

I am not a theistic evolutionist. However, since I'm an old-earth creationist who accepts evolution, I will engage this question.

Old Earth creationist who accepts evolution sounds like a type of Theo-Evo.

When: Approximately 6,000 years ago.

How: By disobeying God.

Why: Because they wanted to be their own authority.

Yes, all true...but it sounds like you don't accept the part where Adam was made from the dust the Eve from Adams rib. It sounds like you believe God used evolutionism to create humans from lesser animals over time....Then what? 6,000 years ago did the entire population decide they wanted to be their own authority?

Well, now you do.

Not much....sorry....considering the follow up questions required to ascertain your actual view.

If you know what the Bible says about it, then you know what at least this evolutionary creationist says about it.

I've heard some say there was some sort of sin mutation. Do you believe that?

Maybe they work for a living, and perhaps they're raising a family. Consider me as an example. It's not as if I've been avoiding your question, it's just that our time is limited and we end up missing a lot of the new threads that get started here.

Here's the question....if man evolved why did they sin? When did they sin? Was it the entire population at one or just one man and it eventually spread to the rest of the population as their progeny was born? Did sin happen when man was a neanderthal or prior to that?

But I happened to see it this morning and happily replied because I love this subject. And now I'll receive notifications about it.

Then I hope you see this response and have time to create a well thought out reply.

 

[Arial]

The flesh becomes sinful with the giving of law.

Sin is the transgression of the law of God.

The flesh is not a separate part of a human from who he is. If we are sinful, all of our being and person is sinful. The flesh does not act on its own.

Do you think God's law consists only of the SInai covenant legal code? Or is being created in his image and likeness also implicit law? DId Adam break God's law?

Do toddlers, as soon as they become verbal begin breaking God's law by hollering "No!" in disrespect of God's law to honor your father and mother? (Before anyone jumps to a conclusion, I am not saying that toddlers are condemned by God for that lawbreaking specifically. Scripture does tell us that he is patient with us and remembers that we are made of dust.) I am simply making the point that since what I state is the case concerning even a two year old, would it not seem to you that it is somehow in our very nature to rebel against the law of God?

Nature is the constitution of something.

Then, see above.