Gen 6...who are the sons of God?

[3 Resurrections]

In any case, there is no Scripture showing any angels allowed by the Lord to come to earth in rebellion, to be worshipped by men on earth.

Certainly, that was not the intended purpose for God setting up the righteous angels over the nations back in Deuteronomy 32:8. Those angels were first set over the nations in the days of the earth being divided when Peleg was born - Genesis 10:25). God divided up the nations according to the number of the angels of God, who served in the role of overseers over those nations, or "Watchers" as Daniel called them (Dan. 4:17). This was the task of the righteous angels in those days.

It was some of those originally-righteous angels who fell into the temptation of accepting the worship of the men in those nations who wished to worship them instead of the God who had set those angels over the nations. For such an angel to begin accepting worship by humankind was to turn themselves into a devil instead. In Deuteronomy 32:17 Israel was accused by God of "sacrificing unto devils" - and not just the golden calf. At Baal-peor, the women of Moab enticed the Israelites into bowing down to their gods and committing fornication, and many thousands died in that judgment.

 

[Tambora]

​

I would ask. .

Then who was Cain worshipping (doing the will of) if not the father lies a murderer from that very beginning.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of i

I would ask ...
Who were Adam & Eve worshipping when they partook of the fruit?
The point being that just because a man commits a sin does not mean they did not still worship YHWH as the Most High God.
Every man that worshipped YHWH as their only God was a sinner.

 

[Tambora]

What is completely missing in Gen chapters one through five, is any mention of fallen angels doing anything on earth,

Doesn't need to be.
The story of scripture progresses and the first time something happens doesn't need to be mentioned before then.

let alone with human women, beyond the serpents temptation in the Garden of Eden.

Mankind having dealings with created beings of the spirit realm has caused a lot of trouble throughout history.
Genesis 6 is no exception.

There is no reason to take sons of God or Nephilim, to mean a hybrid being, the offspring of angel/human joining.

I don't really take them as "hybrid beings" (as in 1/2 angel and 1/2 human).
In other words they don't inherit the abilities of angels to manifest in the natural world and the spirit world.
I see them as more of a distortion/abnormality of mankind since they (giants) could be killed and sons of God (angels) could not.
There was certainly something physically abnormal about them from the rest of mankind, and that kind of abnormality doesn't spring from a union of two humans with mixed faith.

God has sons, a designation of those who belong to Him, and a distinction from those who do not belong to Him.

Which would not exclude His created angels.

1 Cor 6:15-20 and 1 Cor 15:33 "Bad company ruins good morals."

Which doesn't exclude rebellious angels.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.


Always good to kick around all the perspectives.
You are one in which that can be done with in a civil manner, and I appreciate that.
Makes the conversation more productive in nature.

 

[Tambora]

There is the possibility that one of the brothers married a descendent of Cain.....or even had Nephilim blood in her.

The problem I see with that is that you have expressed that your line of thought is that the flood happened to kill off all those with any nephilim lineage.
So that wouldn't fit your own narrative.
It would make more sense to take the verse at face value:
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.
In other words, the only time that Nephilim appeared was when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them; meaning both before and after the flood.
But that's just how I take the verse to mean.

 

[GeneZ]

What is completely missing in Gen chapters one through five, is any mention of fallen angels doing anything on earth, let alone with human women, beyond the serpents temptation in the Garden of Eden.

They were very active....

Just unseen.

Invisible Satan was a busy little troublemaker....

Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? ​

If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is ​

right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Genesis 4:6-7
​

Satan was observing Cain and exploited what he understood about Cain......

For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. ​

Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why ​

did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous." 1 John 3:11-12​

​

​

grace and peace ................

 

[GeneZ]

I don't really take them as "hybrid beings" (as in 1/2 angel and 1/2 human).

Only their bodies were hybrid.
Yet? Their inner being was as an angel.
Spirit, not soul.

It had to be that way.
For if they were soul?
Jesus being the perfect Adam could not have qualified to die in their place!

Their inner man was like an angel. Spirit - not soul.
That being so?
Made them spiritual (not needing to be born again) and in their perception left them without excuse for not heeding the warnings from God.
Demons are fallen angels. They can perceive the things of God in the spiritual realm.
The Nephilim were having spirit like angels. Not soul like man.

That is why we find the following passage....

After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the ​

imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago ​

when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark ​

was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved ​

through water." 1 Peter 3:19-20​

Jesus as the perfect Adam (human body and soul) could not die for their sins.
Jesus would have had to become half man/half angel in bodily form to do so!

So, after 120 years?
After the Nephilim being spiritual in perception rejected their chance to repent?
God needed to lock them up, and they will face a similar kind of judgment as fallen angels..


After we suffered and have endured all the complexities that were wishing to distract us away from finding the needed truth?
God begins to make it seem simple.

grace and peace 1

 

[GeneZ]

The problem I see with that is that you have expressed that your line of thought is that the flood happened to kill off all those with any nephilim lineage.
So that wouldn't fit your own narrative.
It would make more sense to take the verse at face value:
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.
In other words, the only time that Nephilim appeared was when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them; meaning both before and after the flood.
But that's just how I take the verse to mean.

That is to say that there were still some angels that lusted for human women and refused to resist....

In their case? Unlike what we found in Genesis 6 in regards to the human race..
The later hybrids existed in isolated groups.
Groups that God ordered the Jews kill off over time.
In Joshua 7 the Jews failed to kill off the Canaanites.
Later, King Saul failed to finish off whom God commanded be utterly destroyed.

Finally...
David killed off the giants.

That is why we saw commanded of God to spare no one.

The destruction was to be complete: every man, woman, and child was to be killed.

Seems insanely harsh?
Not when you know what was being killed off.

 

[CrowCross]

The problem I see with that is that you have expressed that your line of thought is that the flood happened to kill off all those with any nephilim lineage.
So that wouldn't fit your own narrative.
It would make more sense to take the verse at face value:
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.
In other words, the only time that Nephilim appeared was when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them; meaning both before and after the flood.
But that's just how I take the verse to mean.

I see both ways as working.
Some argue after seeing what happened to the watcher fallen angels the other fallen angels wouldn't try it again.

Never the less the Nephilim returned somehow.

 

[Mr GLee]

​

I would ask ...
Who were Adam & Eve worshipping when they partook of the fruit?
The point being that just because a man commits a sin does not mean they did not still worship YHWH as the Most High God.
Every man that worshipped YHWH as their only God was a sinner.

Hi I would offer.

They were worshiping the god of this world Lucifer the false light.

During creation rather than defending the glory of the creation Lucifer usurped the glory of creation claiming he was god the Faithful Creator. .
1 John below give a picture of the usurper of the glory of the Father

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The lust of eye with the lust of the flesh The two building blocks of false pride .. . . .They fell

Adam representing Christ as the one that reveals the word of prophecy and pass it on to Eve the weaker vessel as the prophet /priest.

Like the order below with Moses and Aaron . Same kind of use of two

Exodus 7King James VersionAnd the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

The two work together tohelp understanding prophecy. Invisible God represented as Moses revealing it to mankind who then as a kingdom of priest preach the living word.

Adam again who represented Christ the unseen head failed to protect the Eve the wife that represents the bride the church . Satan coming along side and added to prophecy with false (Ye shall not surely die

Genesis 3:3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

False prophecy God did not say neither shall you touch it.

The father of lies drew them to hidden tree in the middle garden . The lust of the eyes moved them to touch and eat. . . lust of the flesh .

They fell in false pride

Eve used as the first false apostle /prophet or called a antichrist (another teaching authority )other than all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Satan the god of this world, the king of lying sign to wonder after is shown offering a lying sign to wonder after with Jesus the Son of man The father gave words to his apostles prophet jesus .Three times as it is written again and again as it is written. . . the father of lies left.

Mathew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth (lying wonder )him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me

 

[Tambora]

Hi I would offer.

They were worshiping the god of this world Lucifer the false light.

Scripture does not say that Adam, nor Eve, nor Cain were worshipping Lucifer.

 

[Mr GLee]

Scripture does not say that Adam, nor Eve, nor Cain were worshipping Lucifer.

Worship bow down do the will of another.

Whose voice were they hearing.. "surely you will not die eat". .

If not worship then what?

 

[Tambora]

Worship bow down do the will of another.

Whose voice were they hearing.. "surely you will not die eat". .

If not worship then what?

With that logic you are going to have to say Abraham, Jacob, David, etc. were worshipping Lucifer.
But they were not worshipping Lucifer.
No matter how many times they messed up, they never stopped believing that YHWH was their only God to worship.

 

[Mr GLee]

With that logic you are going to have to say Abraham, Jacob, David, etc. were worshipping Lucifer.
But they were not worshipping Lucifer.
No matter how many times they messed up, they never stopped believing that YHWH was their only God to worship.

I would think moved by the spirit of lies they must have fallen from grace more than once. The fools says there is no God in his heart .Christians do deny Christ. He cannot .If he began the good work in us as our confidence he will finish .

Galatians 3King James Version3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[Ghada]

TThe only difference between Paul, the theologian, or John, the theologian, and later theologians is they were inspired apostles.

The prophets and apostles chosen to write God's words, are the only one's doing so with error.

Everyone else is either teaching what they wrote, or not.

Everyone in the forum is trying to do that!

No. Everyone is trying to teach what they believe. Whether everyone is honest with the Scriptures to do so, is up for dispute. Which is fair game for anyone declaring their beliefs publicly.

Act 17:11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


And some prove they care nothing from simple words of Scripture, since they persist in teaching the opposite. Such as the Word was not God, but was only a god.

And if you come to this forum NOT trying to make scriptural cases for what you believe to be the facts and truths of scripture then please do tell us NOW so that we may respond accordingly .

I make my case as plain as possible. I invite all honest scrutiny.

I also object obvious changing words of Scripture, as though no one should object. Such as changing the word for sons, into the word for angels.

We should be polite about disagreements, but not blindly agreeable.

 

[Ghada]

​

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him ​

all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” ​

he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Matthew 4:8-9​

I would say good point, except it does not apply to the argument at hand. No one has said that fallen angels would never desire to be worshipped by man on earth. The argument is that God has never allowed any to decieve man into doing so, nor have any been worshipped in person on earth. The sin of the fallen angels cast into hell is comparable to fornication with strange flesh, not being worshipped in the old world before the flood.

The argument is about angels coming to earth as men time to time, to be worshipped by men on earth. There have been good and bad angels coming to earth and seen of men, but none have been worshipped on earth by men. And the Lord appearing on earth as a man before being born of a woman, was not an angel, but the Lord Himself. He was also rightly worshipped as the Angel of the Lord at times, such as by Gideon and Manoah.

The myths of gods, demigods, and angelic beings worshipped on earth, have no basis of truth to them. At most they are perversions of the Angel of the Lord and Christ visting Abraham and wrestling with Jacob.

Men worshipping angels is only in the vanity of their imaginations, not in any truth of worshipping them on earth. Paul speaks of the error of children of Israel seeking to worship the leading angels of God, and Heb 1 is a rebuke to some Jews believing Jesus was the chief angel of God come in the flesh.

Jesus is the only man on earth allowed to be tempted by the devil, the first angel that sinned, and he is the only angel accused of seeking to exalt himself to the throne of God:

Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

All men that sin are certainly serving the devil and god of this world, as children of lust and disobedience. That is spiritually and practically common to all trespassers against the will of God. But, It is not worshipping the devil in person on earth.

Satan worshippers have their rites as pagans of old, but none have been 'honored' by Lucifer's personal presence among them.

That man of sin and deciever can apply to any false apostle, teacher, or preacher seeking to sit as God in his own pulpit seat. And that last man of sin before the Lord comes again, will not be any angel nor devil in the flesh come to earth to be worshipped by men.

Scripture condemns men worshipping false gods, the heavens, idols of gold and silver, and as false leaders and prophets in their midst. Nowhere does God ever confirm that fallen angels were, are, nor ever will be personally worshipped on earth. Including Lucifer that old serpent and devil.

Is the devil served in spiritual wickedness and ungodly deeds? Yes. Worshipped in person? No. Jesus was the only one ever tempted by the devil himself on earth to do so, and He said no.

2Th 2:3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The only beings ever worshipped by men on earth in person, have been other men and the Lord Himself, not any angel nor the devil himself.

 

[GeneZ]

I would say good point, except it does not apply to the argument at hand. No one has said that fallen angels would never desire to be worshipped by man on earth. The argument is that God has never allowed any to decieve man into doing so, nor have any been worshipped in person on earth. The sin of the fallen angels cast into hell is comparable to fornication with strange flesh, not being worshipped in the old world before the flood.

You like to sound informed. Yet, you babble.

 

[Ghada]

Have you read Genesis 18?
In plain English?

If you have?
You are terrible at what is called "deduction."

The deduction is simple: Angels and the Lord Himself have visited earth as men, that eat and drink of the same natural things of the earth. And they still do:

Heb 13:2Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

It doesn't take deduction but simple grammar to know that a word for sons, is not the same word for angels nor men.

How long will you try to defend changing Scripture in Gen 6 from sons of God, to angels of God? To what purpose? Just to keep a cherished teaching? Or, just to avoid ever being corrected in the least? I mean, there isn't even a curtain to hide behind, when changing words so brazenly.

.............. You can not stop the Lord's plan.

Plan? To change laws of grammar? That plan has already been exposed by the Lord. And it isn't the Lord's plan at all, ever.

All BS will become extinct in the next phase.

If I owned a site like this, the only rule I would enforce is no profanity, along with profane acronyms. Everything else is fair game.

That's why I don't report on rules I would not enforce, since I don't think anyone with thin skins should be arguing publicly. I personally don't care about such things, but only the argument at hand.

The thing about me is, that I do seek correction, but it must be sound Scripture doing so. That is how the teaching is perfected. Others only seek to establish their own teaching by proselytizing others to it, and any correction of any detail is resented to the point of personal distraction.

 

[GeneZ]

The deduction is simple: Angels and the Lord Himself have visited earth as men, that eat and drink of the same natural things of the earth. And they still do:

Heb 13:2Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

It doesn't take deduction but simple grammar to know that a word for sons, is not the same word for angels nor men.

How long will you try to defend changing Scripture in Gen 6 from sons of God, to angels of God? To what purpose? Just to keep a cherished teaching? Or, just to avoid ever being corrected in the least? I mean, there isn't even a curtain to hide behind, when changing words so brazenly.

Your point was an attempt to make a point, to nullify what is a point.

Please stop ringing my door bell.

 

[Red Baker]

This is a continuation of posts: #150, 167,and 221.

23. Furthermore, every creature God made to procreate or reproduce did so and does so after its own kind. If so, how did angels reproduce men, since the Holy Ghost calls them men of renown that resulted from the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men (Gen 6:4)?

24. Though morally and physically impossible, even if it were possible for angels and humans to have sexual intercourse and reproduce, God would not have allowed it, as it was contrary to creation and His stated laws for gendering with a diverse kind (Luke 19:19; Deut 22:10).

25. Since stronger genes win, the angels’ DNA would have crushed the human contribution from the daughters of men and resulted in a spiritual being little like a human, likely capable of space travel and choice of invisibility. The whole point is ludicrous, but is just one more legitimate concern raised by those applying a Greek mythology mentality to God’s word.

26. The text calls them children (Gen 6:4). But they would not be children, if they were the offspring of kinky angel-human sex, any more than the offspring of goats (kids) are called children. Would they be mules, sterile for reproducing, or are there family trees of Nephilim?

27. Error leads to confusion and folly, if the error is taken to its logical conclusions. If there were Nephilim, did they drown in the Flood? If they did, then there are no Nephilim, contrary to what Nephilim-believers assume from Numbers 13:33. If they did not drown in the Flood, then what did they breathe other than the breath of life, for all with the breath of life drowned in the Flood? If they did not drown in the Flood, where are they today? Did men eventually breed the angel DNA out of them? Or vise versa? Are they the CEO’s of renown today?

28. Error leads to confusion and folly, if the error is taken to its logical conclusions. If there were Nephilim, were they fathered by the elect and holy angels, or the rejected and sinning angels? If the elect and holy angels, was this sexual intercourse with women a sin or not? If not, why not? If yes, where is it stated in the Bible that the elect angels sinned? If the fathers were the fallen angels, did they transmit a sin nature to their innocent children? If the fathers were the fallen angels, was it a further sin on their part? If yes, where is it identified and explained?

29. Jesus described the men of Noah’s day without any mention of angels, though He certainly mentioned marriage and their destruction by the Flood (Matt 24:37-42; Luke 17:26-27). He ignored any angel complicity in that generation’s wickedness, and the angels would not have been affected by water anyway. The Flood took away the lives of compromising sons of God and worldly men and their daughters.

30. Satan and the angels sinned and were judged by God for their proud rebellion, rejecting the heavenly offices and authority God had given them, not for wild and kinky sex with wanton women in Mesopotamia to gender mongrels (Isaiah 14:12-14; I Tim 3:6; II Pet 2:4; Jude 1:6).

31. If there were Nephilim, they no longer exist, for the earth was populated by Noah’s family (Gen 9:19). Yet, consistent Nephilim advocates say they were still around in Numbers 13:33. And the majority of false Bible versions agree by using this ridiculous word in both places. If they still were found after the Flood, when did the second sexual integration take place, and what did God do about this one? The whole subject is ludicrous as reasoning quickly shows.


32. Sin is transmitted by the man, so were the mongrel offspring of male angels and human females sinners (Rom 5:12-14)? Did they inherit a sin nature? Were they legally liable to death? If they were sinners, how many gained eternal life through Christ? Did the Nephilim beget their offspring in their own likeness and after their own image like Adam (Gen 5:3)? False doctrines never have answers to question, never.

33. If there were Nephilim, could any of them be saved? Jesus specifically came with a human body of flesh and blood to obtain redemption for elect humans with flesh and blood (Heb 2:14-16). He specifically did not take on him the nature of angels, which is unrelated to human nature – confounding this heresy again, so how could any of the mongrels be saved?

 

[Josheb]

The prophets and apostles chosen to write God's words, are the only one's doing so with error.

God made bad choices. Got it.

I make my case as plain as possible.

The posts prove otherwise. The "case" presented is replete with factual errors, eisegetic mishandling f scripture, and logical fallacy.

I invite all honest scrutiny.

I hope that is not insinuating everyone but you is dishonest. Invitation is not the problem. A lack of sincere rational consideration of that scrutiny is the problem to be solved. Post 254 makes it fairly clear you think God's ability to choose men is faulty, the prophets and apostles erred (but you still affirmatively quote them), and those invited are dishonest.

Thank you again for your time.