Free Will ~yet again.

[Ritajanice]

Amen! This has been the way for all of us, sister…one way or another.

I’ve still got to do my bit , God won’t do it all...sorting this last word I need to have...he keeps bringing it to the forefront LOL.

Of course the enemy knows this weakness of mine very well...watch this space @Alive ...hehehe.

 

[Rella]

Sis, I have experienced a guilty conscience before the Lord, only last year....it was awful....I can’t believe what I did.....I even went and rectified what I did in the early hours of the morning.....phew, the consequences of my actions don’t bear thinking about....thank God he made a way for me to rectify my wrong doing.

Boy was that one very hard lesson to learn.

Ok SIS,

That is wonderful. You rectified it.

But also have made my point of free will. You chose to do something or whatever it was and God called you out on it. He allowed you to
do it... he did not put up roadblocks . He is a l;oving parent.... But He also always has you best interest in mind.

 

[Ritajanice]

But also have made my point of free will. You chose to do something or whatever it was and God called you out on it. He allowed you to
do it... he did not put up roadblocks . He is a l;oving parent.... But He also always has you best interest in mind.

That’s true...I did it because anger/ rage rose up in me.....he did allow me to do it yup!....and it taught me NEVER to do it again...as the consequences could be even more severe...

 

[fastfredy0]

Free Will (the ability to self-determine one's salvation) is a farce.

The idea of ‘free will’ contradicts the observable fact the people’s beliefs correlate to the beliefs of their parents in a way that indisputably shows one’s parents are an critical influence.
It is not possible for someone to be saved without knowledge of Christ (John 3:18, John 3:36). Billions of people have died without hearing of Christ. Therefore a significant number of people could not possibly have “free will” to exercise in regards to salvation. Similarly, 25% to 40% of the population could not exercise “free will” for they never reached the age of accountability due to abortions, childhood deaths, miscarriages, etc.
Acts 20:35b It is more blessed [and brings greater joy] to give than to receive. If man can give something to God then man would be more blessed than God in that act.
Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heavens is Mine. This would contradict “free will” which contends that we are to be rewarded for self-caused believing.
Job 22:2 “Can a vigorous man be of use to God, Or a wise man be useful to himself? 3 “Is it any pleasure or joy to the Almighty that you are righteous? Or is it of benefit to Him that you make your ways perfect? Free Will answers YES to these questions
If there is some other power like man’s self-determination it would mean God is not all powerful.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Corinthians 12:3b And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 9:18 So then, He has mercy on whom He wills (chooses), and He hardens [the heart of] whom He wills.

Romans 12:3b as God has apportioned to each a degree of faith [and a purpose designed for service].
John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” Clearly this verse defines faith as a work. Thus faith must originate from God since God’s grace does not include man works (Galatians 5:2).
John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

 

[Rella]

Free Will (the ability to self-determine one's salvation) is a farce.

Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit had to come and live within each born again? The helper Jesus promised.....?

The idea of ‘free will’ contradicts the observable fact the people’s beliefs correlate to the beliefs of their parents in a way that indisputably shows one’s parents are an critical influence.
It is not possible for someone to be saved without knowledge of Christ (John 3:18, John 3:36). Billions of people have died without hearing of Christ. Therefore a significant number of people could not possibly have “free will” to exercise in regards to salvation. Similarly, 25% to 40% of the population could not exercise “free will” for they never reached the age of accountability due to abortions, childhood deaths, miscarriages, etc.
Acts 20:35b It is more blessed [and brings greater joy] to give than to receive. If man can give something to God then man would be more blessed than God in that act.
Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heavens is Mine. This would contradict “free will” which contends that we are to be rewarded for self-caused believing.
Job 22:2 “Can a vigorous man be of use to God, Or a wise man be useful to himself? 3 “Is it any pleasure or joy to the Almighty that you are righteous? Or is it of benefit to Him that you make your ways perfect? Free Will answers YES to these questions
If there is some other power like man’s self-determination it would mean God is not all powerful.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Corinthians 12:3b And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 9:18 So then, He has mercy on whom He wills (chooses), and He hardens [the heart of] whom He wills.

Romans 12:3b as God has apportioned to each a degree of faith [and a purpose designed for service].

I guess Judas was absent that day?

Or [and a purpose designed for service] was by design for his selling out Jesus

No matter he killed himself... As part of the [plan as it happened ... he is safe..

John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” Clearly this verse defines faith as a work. Thus faith must originate from God since God’s grace does not include man works (Galatians 5:2).
John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

I may be back to answer more tomorrow.

 

[fastfredy0]

Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit had to come and live within each born again?

Beats me. God is the First Cause of all things. He is not an EFFECT, therefore a "why" question in regards to God cannot be answered.

I guess Judas was absent that day?
Or [and a purpose designed for service] was by design for his selling out Jesus
No matter he killed himself... As part of the [plan as it happened ... he is safe..

I don't understand the context of your question and commentary.

I may be back to answer more tomorrow.

Oh, I have lots of questions for you to answer:

1. When one who supports the idea of Freewill or self-determinism is asked “why you did something he has no answer”. He will resort to a non-answer like “because I wanted to”. When asked why he wanted to he responses “because I choice to want to”; when asked why he choice to want to, he responses “because I wanted to choice to want to” … and on and on the circular reason goes. It contradicts the Law of Causality. Comment?
2. If freewill is true why has there never been a sinless human?
3. Why do “freewill” proponents say “Lord willing"? James 4:15
4. If freewill is true why "pray" for the salvation of another?
5. If freewill is true why do people so strongly tend to have the religious or non-religious views of their parents?
6. That is a scary possibility! In rejecting "divine determinism," the Arminian in effect embraces a determinism coming from some mysterious other source -- another god? the Devil? world history? impersonal laws? Your desires determine your will. When/how did you construct your desires?
7. Explain how you can metaphysically disconnect yourself from God; how can God then for know what you're going to do though entity as you didn't exist before your conception?
8. How is it that my 'free will' can cancel the "free will" of another? For example, I murder someone who otherwise would be saved in the future ... or Hitler kills millions, many of which given the chance would have turned to God. It seems that one person's "free will" can override the "free will" of another. So a "free will" proponent is perfectly OK with the ability of one man's ability to determine another man's eternal destiny, but not allowing God to do the same.
9. Premise 1: God knew who He would adopt before creation (the foundation of the earth) ... Premise 2: It is not possible for even God to know what nothing will do in the future .... Conclusion: God’s knowledge of His children’s identity must be the effect of His actions alone. What's wrong with this syllogism?
10. Billions of people have died without knowledge of Christ. How do they exercise Free Will to believe in Christ in order to be saved?
11. Could God have created you differently and thus change your choices?
12. Amazingly, free will, somehow works differently than the rest of the universe. You can magically choose to choose what you want to choose despite your greatest desire, despite “cause and effect”, despite your depraved disposition sustained by God. How can this be? (No one seeks God)
13. Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? To this Free Will's answer: "I have self determined my faith/trust in God". The glory of my salvation is not God's alone as I am partially responsible for my salvation. Does God share His glory?
14. Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps. How can God determine my steps and yet I determine my steps via Free Will?

 

[makesends]

No Carbon, faith in that verse is not called a gift.

Greek grammar does not permit faith being the gift. First, there is no "it is"; that has been inserted in the English translation. That is shown in the KJV translation where the "it is" is italicized. Literally, the Greek is "and this not of you--of God the gift". Second, the "this" in the Greek, "καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·" , i.e., τοῦτο, is in the neuter gender. Both grace and faith are feminine gender. Thus "this" cannot reference back to either grace or faith. The only grammatically acceptable antecedent is the whole preceding phrase, "For by grace you have been saved through faith". The gift of God is the salvation by grace through faith.

If the gift of God is the salvation, (and I agree it is, and I expect so does @Carbon), then logically the grammar demands the "by grace" and "through faith" are also gift, since they are the way the gift comes. Do you think you can gin up valid faith? Or was it not rather, a gift given, by the Spirit?

 

[makesends]

But you also believe that none of that hearing can happen until God intervenes with regeneration to even allow your escape from that false condition of Total Depravity.

God deals with each as he will. None of the hearing will be finally salvific, if that's what you're getting at, until God regenerates anyone. Why call it intervening? You act as though whatever is going on with the lost is the main thing, and God's plan for the ages is only to intervene???

 

[JIM]

If the gift of God is the salvation, (and I agree it is, and I expect so does @Carbon), then logically the grammar demands the "by grace" and "through faith" are also gift, since they are the way the gift comes. Do you think you can gin up valid faith? Or was it not rather, a gift given, by the Spirit?

I think you maybe don't understand the gift of salvation. If I were to tell you that I would give you a million dollars if you would just send me your full name and address and you did that and I did in fact send you a million dollars, would you really complain that the million dollars was really not a gift but instead you earned it? That would be nonsense. The simple truth is that God could pile on condition after condition to receive salvation and given the true value of salvation it would still be a gift, provided the conditions were doable.

Can I "gin up a valid faith", whatever than might mean? Probably not. But I do believe that God can provide whatever information and data necessary for me to be convinced of His promise. I believe He has provided just such information. It is the Bible.

 

[JIM]

God deals with each as he will. None of the hearing will be finally salvific, if that's what you're getting at, until God regenerates anyone. Why call it intervening? You act as though whatever is going on with the lost is the main thing, and God's plan for the ages is only to intervene???

Because it is intervening in your version of things. The only difference between the saved and the lost in your version of things is that God has intervened, regenerating those He has decided to save and He has not intervened, not regenerating those He has decided to condemn.

 

[Rella]

Beats me. God is the First Cause of all things. He is not an EFFECT, therefore a "why" question in regards to God cannot be answered.

No more questions answered until you can answer the following.

1 Corinthians 10:13​

13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

HOW COULD YOU BE TEMPTED TO THE POINT OF NEEDING GOD TO GIVE YOU A WAY OUT IF YOU HAVE NO FREE WILL?

2 Peter 3:9​

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE SINS IN FREE WILL, AS GOD HAD NOT SUBJECTED US TO SIN, WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO REPENT?

Galatians 5:13​

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

WHY THE CAUTION TO THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLED "FREE" TO AVOID INDULGENCES IN THE FLESH? A PERFECT FREEWILL EXAMPLE!

John 7:17​

17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

SAY WHAT???? "whether I speak on my own."........... CERTAINLY JOHN THOUGHT, AS DID HIS AUDIENCE THAT HE WOULD HAVE HAD THE FREE WILL TO SPEAK ON HIS OWN... THE WAY THIS WAS WRITTEN.

Joshua 24:15​

15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”

THEN CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES. CANNOT BE MORE DIRECT ON A FREEWILL STATEMENT, CAN THERE?

Mark 8:34​

34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

WHAT WERE THEY DENYING?

Revelation 3:20​

20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

SO DID THEY ALSO NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO NOT OPEN THAT DOOR?

Romans 6:23​

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

WOULD IT NOT BE FREEWILL THAT CAUSES THE SIN THAT LEADS TO DEATH?

Romans 13:2​

2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

AND THOSE WHO DO SO BRING JUDGEMENT ON THEMSELVES. THE DEVIL DID NOT MAKE THEM DO IT AND NEITHER DID GOD. WAS IT NOT THEIR "FREEWILL"?

Romans 10:9-10​

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

IS THIS NOT A FREEWILL ACTION WE MUST TAKE TO BE SAVED?

Galatians 5:16-17​

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

YOU ARE NOT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT...... UNLESS YOU HAD FREEWILL WOULD YOU WANT TO DO IT?????

Genesis 2:16-17​

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

THE FIRST KNOWN EXAMPLE OF FREE WILL... AND WE KNOW HOW THAT TURNED OUT, DONT WE?

Isaiah 55:6-7​

6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

LET THEM TURN TO THE LORD AND HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON THEM. A CHOICE GIVEN TO THE WICKED THAT THEY FORSAKE THEIR FREEWILL WAYS.

John 1:12-13​

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

TO THOSE WHO DID RECEIVE HIM, HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD. A DEFINITIVE PERSONAL CHOICE FOR THOSE WITH FREEWILLS. OR DO YOU DISAGREE?

Deuteronomy 30:19-20​

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH , AND BLESSINGS AND CURSES. NOW CHOOSE..............................
CAN ONE MAKE A CHOICE WITHOUT THE FREEWILL THAT ALLOWS THEM TO DO SO?

Ezekiel 18:30-32​

30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

TURN AWAY FROM ALL YOUR OFFENSES. GET A NEW HEART AND A NEW SPIRIT. REPENT AND LIVE.
WHY SUCH A COMMAND IF THIS WAS NOT TO PEOPLE WITH FREEWILL TO LIVE AS THEY PLEASE?

ENOUGH FOR NOW!

 

[fastfredy0]

HOW COULD YOU BE TEMPTED TO THE POINT OF NEEDING GOD TO GIVE YOU A WAY OUT IF YOU HAVE NO FREE WILL?

You never define Free Will so it is not possible to answer your questions.
Assuming Free Will means the ability to do what you desire most at the time and by way of example:
I find a wallet with $1000 in it and the wallet also has a drive license to I.D. the owner of the wallet. "My desire at the time" (which is the definition I give to free will as you won't do so) maybe to keep the $1000 and toss the wallet. I need God intervention to change my desire such that I return the wallet. Note: my desires are NOT something I chose. My desires including a "sin nature" were created for me.
A non-existent being, which was what I once was, cannot create any part of himself for from nothing, nothing comes. Your will is not able to create itself and therefore is not free, it is a prisoner of its creator such that when you were conceived you are a slave to Satan (Psalm 5:5, Acts 13:12). Slaves can't set themselves free, God must regenerate said slave to become a slave to God. God changes your will, such that you are now a slave to God (Romans 6:15-17). "Slave to God" meaning you have "free will" to do as you desire and God has changed your desires via regeneration.

Re: The "wallet" example: Verse showing God's intervention in such matters:

1. Isaiah 26:12 Lord, You will establish peace for us, Since You have also performed for us all that we have done.
2. Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart [a new heart], and put a new spirit within them. I will take from them the heart of stone, and will give them a heart of flesh [that is responsive to My touch], 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
3. John 15:5 I am the Vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him bears much fruit, for [otherwise] apart from Me [that is, cut off from vital union with Me] you can do nothing.
4. Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
5. 1 Corinthians 4:7 For who regards you as superior or what sets you apart as special? What do you have that you did not receive [from another]? And if in fact you received it [from God or someone else], why do you boast as if you had not received it [but had gained it by yourself]?
6. 2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficiently qualified in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency and qualifications come from God.

yada, yada, ...

Deuteronomy 30:19-20​

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH , AND BLESSINGS AND CURSES. NOW CHOOSE..............................
CAN ONE MAKE A CHOICE WITHOUT THE FREEWILL THAT ALLOWS THEM TO DO SO?

The crux of the question is not whether we have a choice. We both agree to that. The question is: was the choice FREE. Again, you don't define "free" part of "free will" which is critical to such questions.
Liberation "free will"? Augustine's "free will" to pick what we desire most? What do you mean by FREE?

 

[makesends]

I think you maybe don't understand the gift of salvation. If I were to tell you that I would give you a million dollars if you would just send me your full name and address and you did that and I did in fact send you a million dollars, would you really complain that the million dollars was really not a gift but instead you earned it? That would be nonsense. The simple truth is that God could pile on condition after condition to receive salvation and given the true value of salvation it would still be a gift, provided the conditions were doable.

Can I "gin up a valid faith", whatever than might mean? Probably not. But I do believe that God can provide whatever information and data necessary for me to be convinced of His promise. I believe He has provided just such information. It is the Bible.

You are not saved by information and data. That is not faith.

Your attempted parallel doesn't run parallel. We are not talking about a gift of a tangible pile of money. We are talking about life and death. You cannot choose life while dead. You may, while in this husk, THINK to choose life, (and many do, with tears and cries for mercy in the moment), but you are choosing for reasons still at enmity with God, until HE has given you life in him.

 

[Rella]

You never define Free Will so it is not possible to answer your questions.

Look Jerry, try this on for understanding.

I only have a 139 IQ so might not be smart enough to explain it to your genius.

When we look at what the Bible says about free will, you will discover that we have the right and the ability to choose the direction we will go and what we will do. This power to choose is not something that should be considered lightly, because what comes along with the power to choose is the reality there are consequences for your choices. While many love the freedom that comes with free will and the power of choice, sometimes people don’t always want to own the ramifications that come with it.

What Is Free Will?​

Here is one definition of free will from a Scriptural sense: Free will is the power to decide what you will do in a certain situation. However, don’t forget your choices have consequences. Here is an example from Scripture of the free will we have.

“You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is good for you. You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is beneficial” (1 Corinthians 10:23).

This verse is making an implication that while it is true you have the right to do anything you want, the truth is everything you do is not beneficial for you or for those around you. While you have the right to make your own choices, you must also remember the responsibility that comes with it. To take it a step further, as Christians you must not just think about how your choices affect you, but how your choices affect others. There is something else the Bible says about free will that we sometimes want to overlook. Look at the very next verse in 1 Corinthians 10:

“Don’t be concerned for your own good but for the good of others” (1 Corinthians 10:24).

While we do have free will as Christians, we must remember we don’t live in a vacuum. If you are going to be a true follower of Christ, then you must exercise your free will with the reality of how your choices will impact other people.

IS THIS CLEAR?

So you dont want to answer my previous questions... then in you own words explain the meaning of each scripture I posted and why we should not consider freedom in them

 

[makesends]

Because it is intervening in your version of things. The only difference between the saved and the lost in your version of things is that God has intervened, regenerating those He has decided to save and He has not intervened, not regenerating those He has decided to condemn.

That is, from the human viewpoint —from a human assessment, which lays time passage as base, raw fact. God even speaks that way, in some passages of Scripture, but from his POV, it is from the beginning by his purposes.

Just as a for instance: God never purposed for the reprobate to be saved. He did not create them for that purpose. He created them for other uses, such as for bringing about the circumstances by which all other fact comes to pass, and for the purpose given in Romans 9 —demonstration of his glory, to the objects of his mercy.

 

[JIM]

You are not saved by information and data. That is not faith.

That is the basis of faith (Rom 10:17).

 

[fastfredy0]

I only have a 139 IQ so might not be smart enough to explain it to your genius.

Very good point!

When we look at what the Bible says about free will

The bible says nothing about Free Will save a "free will offering" which is not what you mean (Though you have as yet to define "free will").

you will discover that we have the right and the ability to choose the direction we will go and what we will do.

Agreed... the crux of the matter is WHY DO YOU CHOOSE "X" OR "Y". What's the adjective FREE in front of the term FREE WILL. FREE WILL is what you talk about but won't define.

This power to choose is not something that should be considered lightly, because what comes along with the power to choose is the reality there are consequences for your choices.

Agreed. Why do you choose "X" or "Y". What's the adjective FREE in front of the term FREE WILL. FREE WILL is what you talk about but won't define.

What Is Free Will?​

Here is one definition of free will from a Scriptural sense: Free will is the power to decide what you will do in a certain situation.

Again, what is the adjective "FREE" mean? What determines whether you choose "X" or "Y"? I agree you have the "power to decide". Why did you decide? What/who determined your will/desires?
I say you choose Christ because God regenerated you which changed your desires such that you believed salvificly per John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

While we do have free will as Christians

Again, you won't define what FREE in FREE WILL means. You imply that because your will choices "X" or "Y" that it is FREE, but what it is FREE from you won't say. You imply that you created your own desires that are free from external determination or maybe you believe in libertarian free will.... you won't or can't define "free will".

So you dont want to answer my previous questions.

I won't answer your questions because you will not explain what the term FREE WILL means where said term in the crux of your questions.

... anyways.... you can have the last word if you like ... we're not getting anywhere

 

[Rella]

Very good point!


The bible says nothing about Free Will save a "free will offering" which is not what you mean (Though you have as yet to define "free will").


Agreed... the crux of the matter is WHY DO YOU CHOOSE "X" OR "Y". What's the adjective FREE in front of the term FREE WILL. FREE WILL is what you talk about but won't define.


Agreed. Why do you choose "X" or "Y". What's the adjective FREE in front of the term FREE WILL. FREE WILL is what you talk about but won't define.


Again, what is the adjective "FREE" mean? What determines whether you choose "X" or "Y"? I agree you have the "power to decide". Why did you decide? What/who determined your will/desires?
I say you choose Christ because God regenerated you which changed your desires such that you believed salvificly per John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD.


Again, you won't define what FREE in FREE WILL means. You imply that because your will choices "X" or "Y" that it is FREE, but what it is FREE from you won't say. You imply that you created your own desires that are free from external determination or maybe you believe in libertarian free will.... you won't or can't define "free will".


I won't answer your questions because you will not explain what the term FREE WILL means where said term in the crux of your questions.

... anyways.... you can have the last word if you like ... we're not getting anywhere

Free will is the idea that humans have the ability to make their own choices and determine their own fates. Is a person's will free, and is not shaped by powers outside of their own control.

Britannica definition:
free will, in philosophy and science, the supposed power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe.

From one of the psychology papers is this snippet. (far to long to copy here)
A conceptual distinction between first-order and second-order willing may be helpful here. While we desire many things (first-order willing), through a meta-level of desire (the desire to desire) we can self-regulate what we actually want to do (second-order willing). There is a reflection stage between the stimulus (an upcoming urge) and the response which creates an internal locus of control. In this way, we are more or less free to decide upon the manifold motivations at the moment of deciding what to do.

Wiki:
Free will is the capacity or ability to choose between different possible courses of action.[1]

Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, culpability, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen. It is also connected with the concepts of advice, persuasion, deliberation, and prohibition. Traditionally, only actions that are freely willed are seen as deserving credit or blame. Whether free will exists, what it is and the implications of whether it exists or not constitute some of the longest running debates of philosophy. Some conceive of free will as the ability to act beyond the limits of external influences or wishes.

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
The term “free will” has emerged over the past two millennia as the canonical designator for a significant kind of control over one’s actions. Questions concerning the nature and existence of this kind of control (e.g., does it require and do we have the freedom to do otherwise or the power of self-determination?), and what its true significance is (is it necessary for moral responsibility or human dignity?) have been taken up in every period of Western philosophy and by many of the most important philosophical figures, such as Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, and Kant. (We cannot undertake here a review of related discussions in other philosophical traditions.

Fascinating read....https://philosophyterms.com/free-will/

Compatibilism versus Incompatibilism: is free will compatible with determinism?​

Incompatibilists — The Origination Argument: To have free will means to be the root cause of one’s own actions. If determinism is true, then our choices are caused by events in the past over which we have no control. Therefore, free will and determinism are incompatible.

Compatibilists – “the ability to do otherwise”: to have free will only means that one could always do otherwise than one did, and would do otherwise if it seemed like the best way to reach one’s goals. This means that something in one’s psychology or world must be different to cause a different decision. This definition of free will seems to side-step determinism.

Incompatibilists disagree, arguing that free will depends on having multiple possible futures to choose from, all consistent with the one past – that free choice must add something not already given by the past.

Incompatibilists – The Consequence Argument: To have free will means to have some control over our actions and their consequences. If determinism is true then we have no control over past, present, or future events; they are all necessary consequences of what came before.

Free Will | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

iep.utm.edu

Most of us are certain that we have free will, though what exactly this amounts to is much less certain. According to David Hume, the question of the nature of free will is “the most contentious question of metaphysics.” If this is correct, then figuring out what free will is will be no small task indeed. Minimally, to say that an agent has free will is to say that the agent has the capacity to choose his or her course of action. But animals seem to satisfy this criterion, and we typically think that only persons, and not animals, have free will. Let us then understand free will as the capacity unique to persons that allows them to control their actions

Stanford:
"Free Will" is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.

I am done, too

You wont understand, as you cannot understand... and therefore are unable to answer my questions.

I have answered more of of yours, but my answers fall on deaf ears, apparently.

Be blesses

 

[Carbon]

That is the basis of faith (Rom 10:17).

Well how do you know what you hear is real?
Because when your born again you have a new seeing, a new hearing, a new knowing…..

John 3:3 . . . . unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Carbon]

Very good point!