Free Will ~yet again.

[ShepherdsPie]

oopsie—see below

 

[ShepherdsPie]

This quote:

“The gospel is not a doctrine of the tongue, but of life. It cannot be grasped by reason and memory only, but it is fully understood when it possesses the whole soul and penetrates to the inner recesses of the heart.” ― John Calvin

Is the byline under the Theology Questions title above.

A rather profound thought.... that necessity of possessing the whole soul.

I recently read a commentary regarding "Free Will" and would like to open up a discussion of why you say it is not so, or why you are certain it is.

@JIM and others please jump in.....

Before that, though, I think Calvin's thoughts on free will need to be looked at so that one can understand that predestined believing people do not arbitrarily say free will is out the door. (The entire link is a good read)

Did John Calvin Believe in Free Will?

Matthew Barrett discusses whether or not John Calvin believed in the concept of Free Will.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Now, if that makes little sense, I understand. Much of Calvin's thoughts make little sense.... but he did not just dismiss the idea out of hand.

And it seems the following has too many characters... so I shall continue it next. PLEASE READ BOTH BEFORE COMMENTING....

Consider… God intercedes in the lives of the elect.

So do the elect have free will? I think not, at least not in the things that God wants us to accomplish for Him.

Romans 8:26-34 (NKJV) Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

~Pie

 

[makesends]

Rella said:
This quote:

“The gospel is not a doctrine of the tongue, but of life. It cannot be grasped by reason and memory only, but it is fully understood when it possesses the whole soul and penetrates to the inner recesses of the heart.” ― John Calvin

Consider… God intercedes in the lives of the elect.

So do the elect have free will? I think not, at least not in the things that God wants us to accomplish for Him.

Romans 8:26-34 (NKJV) Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

~Pie

The following is poorly stated, but I don't know how else to put it without taking too long.

Not that Calvin disagrees or denies this —I don't know if he does or not—I haven't read him— I take it a little further than the notion of "fully understood", in that the understanding is ours only IN HIM, and not inculcated immediately into our hearts and minds upon regeneration. That is, salvific faith is generated by God and not by us —we don't have what it takes to make it real, not even after regeneration. But the Spirit of God has every bit of what it takes, and so it IS real, in us.