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Free Will ~yet again.

Short commentary.

Faith is an integral part of the gift His grace bestowed on us. Scripture consistently teaches that faith is not conjured up by the human will but is a sovereignly granted gift of God. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44).
 
Exactly. But as a self-appointed prophet he influenced many a church and person.
Wow!!..I never knew he was a self - appointed prophet.

Does that mean he was Like Jesus and communicated with God via his spirit?

How did Jesus communicate with God, through his Spirit?

In an audible voice?

I’ve never experienced Gods audible voice, did Calvin experience that?

Please explain the role of a prophet?

I will also look it up in the word?

I am hoping God will explain a prophet to me through you.

Short commentary.

What is the Bible definition of a prophet?
a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration. (in the Old Testament) a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel: Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets. (often initial capital letter) one of the Major or Minor Prophets.
 
I gave you the word of God.please look it up.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...that comes by divine revelation JIM.

Very simple to understand...anyway I too will leave it there, I must get some shut eye.God Bless.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Maybe, there is more to this than you might think.

Most agree that this verse speaks of the Holy Spirit, in some way, bearing witness in relation to our personal spirit (the soul or the inner man). I can take you through a long winded argument but to keep it simple, we need to ask, then, does this mean that the Holy Spirit "bears witness with our spirit" or does this mean that the Holy Spirit "bear witness to our spirit"? You have assumed that the meaning is the latter and the verse is saying that the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit.

I strongly disagree. A main point of Romans, especially in 3:21-5:21, is that the assurance of salvation is not only possible but is the expected result of right objective understanding of grace and of what it means to be justified by faith in the atoning blood of Christ. And through his sanctifying power as it affects both our outward lives (v.14) and our inward consciousness (v.15), the Holy Spirit has already given us reason to cry "Abba! Father!"

In what way, then, does the Spirit testify along with our spirit, that we are children of God? The natural understanding of the word is that the testimony of the Holy Spirit is directed toward the same audience as our own, namely to the Father. When we cry "Abba! Father!" we bear witness to the Father that we are His children. Then the Holy Spirit adds His own testimony to ours, likewise, bearing witness to the Father that we are His children.

Thus we have assurance that someone besides ourselves is confirming our testimony to the Father. That someone is the Holy Spirit. That Paul is telling us that the Spirit likewise testifies to the Father that we are His true sons and daughters makes our assurance even more firm. This is similar the Spirit's intercession between us and the Father in Romans 8:26-27:

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Obviously, this is not necessary for the Father's sake but knowing that the Holy Spirit speaks on our behalf gives us a strong sense of calmness and assurance.
 
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Maybe, there is more to this than you might think.

Most agree that this verse speaks of the Holy Spirit, in some way, bearing witness in relation to our personal spirit (the soul or the inner man). I can take you through a long winded argument but to keep it simple, we need to ask, then, does this mean that the Holy Spirit "bears witness with our spirit" or does this mean that the Holy Spirit "bear witness to our spirit"? You have assumed that the meaning is the latter and the verse is saying that the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit.

I strongly disagree. A main point of Romans, especially in 3:21-5:21, is that the assurance of salvation is not only possible but is the expected result of right objective understanding of grace and of what it means to be justified by faith in the atoning blood of Christ. And through his sanctifying power as it affects both our outward lives (v.14) and our inward consciousness (v.15), the Holy Spirit has already given us reason to cry "Abba! Father!"

In what way, then, does the Spirit testify along with our spirit, that we are children of God? The natural understanding of the word is that the testimony of the Holy Spirit is directed toward the same audience as our own, namely to the Father. When we cry "Abba! Father!" we bear witness to the Father that we are His children. Then the Holy Spirit adds His own testimony to ours, likewise, bearing witness to the Father that we are His children.

Thus we have assurance that someone besides ourselves is confirming our testimony to the Father. That someone is the Holy Spirit. That Paul is telling us that the Spirit likewise testifies to the Father that we are His true sons and daughters makes our assurance even more firm. This is similar the Spirit's intercession between us and the Father in Romans 8:26-27:

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Obviously, this is not necessary for the Father's sake but knowing that the Holy Spirit speaks on our behalf gives us a strong sense of calmness and assurance.
You can disagree as much as you like.

You are reading and trying to understand the testifying with our spirit.

It doesn’t come by reading as I’ve tried to explain to you many times.

It comes by divine revelation...you don’t need to read the Bible to understand what the testifying with our spirit means.

He testifies/ speaks / witnesses that truth to our spirit by divine revelation...who is the Living Holy Spirit....it’s your spirit that we are Born Of God’s seed....not in our mind or by reading the penned word.

Do you understand Born Again in your heart/ spirit @JIM ?

Or do you understand being Born Again only by reading about it in the penned word?
 
You have assumed that the meaning is the latter and the verse is saying that the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit
I’m assuming no such thing.

The Spirit testifies with “ our spirit “ do you understand that?....that we are Gods children....

How else would I know I was Born Again if not by divine revelation?

Maybe you can’t grasp that the Holy Spirit is Alive And testifies Gods truth directly to our spirit?

Our spirit is Born Again by the Spirit Of God....our spirit is brought from spiritual death to spiritual life?

Ephesians 2:1-10​




1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your disobedience and sins.
2 At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
3 Actually all of us were like them and lived according to our natural desires, doing whatever suited the wishes of our own bodies and minds. In our natural condition we, like everyone else, were destined to suffer God's anger.
4 But God's mercy is so abundant, and his love for us is so great,
5 that while we were spiritually dead in our disobedience he brought us to life with Christ. It is by God's grace that you have been saved.
6 In our union with Christ Jesus he raised us up with him to rule with him in the heavenly world.
7 He did this to demonstrate for all time to come the extraordinary greatness of his grace in the love he showed us in Christ Jesus.
8 For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts,
9 but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it.
10 God has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus he has created us for a life of good deeds, which he has already prepared for us to do.
 
@JIM think about something for a moment, it is really silly to think that faith can ever be an arbitrary act of the will. Do you really believe that man can ever believe or disbelieve because he chooses to? Think about how silly you sound when you say things like that. You would be better off calling it a wish. ;)
An arbitrary act of the will? Who has said anything about faith being arbitrary. Paul says that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ". God has produced hundreds and hundreds of pages in books produced over 2500+ years detailing the entire process leading up to and through the coming of Jesus Christ and what it does for each of us, individually. It is through that that we become convinced of the truth of those words of Christ. We believe what it says. And we believe in the God who says it. To believe in God is faith in God. There is nothing arbitrary about that. For some, like those of us raised in a Christian family, it all seems quite natural and it is easy to believe. For others it can be a very difficult journey, taking a great deal of effort to shed old beliefs and to accept such new and strange concepts. And unfortunately for others, they never reach that point.
 
No Carbon, faith in that verse is not called a gift.

Greek grammar does not permit faith being the gift. First, there is no "it is"; that has been inserted in the English translation. That is shown in the KJV translation where the "it is" is italicized. Literally, the Greek is "and this not of you--of God the gift". Second, the "this" in the Greek, "καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·" , i.e., τοῦτο, is in the neuter gender. Both grace and faith are feminine gender. Thus "this" cannot reference back to either grace or faith. The only grammatically acceptable antecedent is the whole preceding phrase, "For by grace you have been saved through faith". The gift of God is the salvation by grace through faith.
Then it is a redundant sentence. Grace itself is a gift or it would not be grace.
 
JIM,

Read what Ritajanice asked.

Now read what you wrote.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

For by grace you have been saved through faith; exactly as you said....

and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; and as she said... a gift.
Go to my reply #140
 
An arbitrary act of the will? Who has said anything about faith being arbitrary. Paul says that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ". God has produced hundreds and hundreds of pages in books produced over 2500+ years detailing the entire process leading up to and through the coming of Jesus Christ and what it does for each of us, individually. It is through that that we become convinced of the truth of those words of Christ. We believe what it says. And we believe in the God who says it. To believe in God is faith in God. There is nothing arbitrary about that. For some, like those of us raised in a Christian family, it all seems quite natural and it is easy to believe. For others it can be a very difficult journey, taking a great deal of effort to shed old beliefs and to accept such new and strange concepts. And unfortunately for others, they never reach that point.
Where do you become convinced of Gods truth Jim?

Where in you do you truly understand that God is who he says he is?

Just by reading the penned word?
 
That is just one more caricature of Calvinism or Reformed Theology. And false. We believe Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. You are engaging in what I think is called false equivalence, basically the same sort of thinking that says Calvinists or the Reformed deny choice, since they believe in predestination.
But you also believe that none of that hearing can happen until God intervenes with regeneration to even allow your escape from that false condition of Total Depravity.
 
No Carbon, faith in that verse is not called a gift.

Greek grammar does not permit faith being the gift. First, there is no "it is"; that has been inserted in the English translation. That is shown in the KJV translation where the "it is" is italicized. Literally, the Greek is "and this not of you--of God the gift". Second, the "this" in the Greek, "καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·" , i.e., τοῦτο, is in the neuter gender. Both grace and faith are feminine gender. Thus "this" cannot reference back to either grace or faith. The only grammatically acceptable antecedent is the whole preceding phrase, "For by grace you have been saved through faith". The gift of God is the salvation by grace through faith.

It depends on how one defines the word faith . . . Not of our own self ( Dead faith ) no power to please.

I would offer . Faith as a labor of love is the power of God ( Immanuel ) working in us with us . Without his labor of love called a work of His faith no one could please Him .

The work of His faithfulness is two fold ."Let there be" and "it was God alone good "

Faith is the treasure or power of God

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Many say God does not need faith. . the power of God's love.

Christ working in us yoked with him he gives us little of His powerful faith and calls us those who have ben given a little of Christ's power . Enough to please the Father Christ .It is used 5 times in that way

Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:26And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Above to show his power of faith (unseen ) Christ working in the Son of man Jesus the prophet. Christ in the Son of man Jesus commands the winds and the see . Let there be calminf and it was God alone good

Matthew 14:31And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith,wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

Luke 12:28If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

On one occasion when lovingly commanded the Apostles to do the will of the invisible Father . The apostles' knowing they have no power asked for a little more.

Luke 17:4-6King James Version4And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
 
Short commentary.

Faith is an integral part of the gift His grace bestowed on us. Scripture consistently teaches that faith is not conjured up by the human will but is a sovereignly granted gift of God. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44).
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
 
Where do you become convinced of Gods truth Jim?

Where in you do you truly understand that God is who he says he is?

Just by reading the penned word?
Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
 
It depends on how one defines the word faith . . . Not of our own self ( Dead faith ) no power to please.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Faith is mental assent plus trust or confidence. Conviction of things not seen is mental assent and the assurance of things hope for is trust or confidence.

The meaning or definition of faith is not all that complicated. The coming to faith can be easy or very, very difficult.
I would offer . Faith as a labor of love is the power of God ( Immanuel ) working in us with us . Without his labor of love called a work of His faith no one could please Him .
Where do you read of "the work of His (God's or Jesus') faith"?
 
Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
That’s not how we are Born Again by divine revelation.

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God..we are Born Again then we are saved from eternal damnation.
 
To Carbon and his expressed sadness in my posts #140 and #146, I would read your rebuttals.
 
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Once again that is not how we are Born Again.

I also asked you a question..how do you know that God is truly who he says he is?

Where in us do we know God’s Love?
 
We aren't born again by divine revelation.
Yes we are...just as Gods word says.

Unfortunately you don’t understand divine revelation in your heart/ spirit...only by reading the word do you think you understand Born Again.imo...being Born Of God’s seed is by divine revelation..

The Spirit testifies with our spirit ...that’s the part you aren’t understanding in your spirit...are you able to answer my other question?

How do you truly know that God exists?
 
I also asked you a question..how do you know that God is truly who he says he is?
That is what faith is. You can't know (absolutely) or prove that God exists. You can only believe that He exists. Believing God is and believing in Him is faith. That comes as He says in Romans 10 and I posted. PERIOD!
 
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