Free Will ~yet again.

[Mr GLee]

There is hearing and there is doing. They are not the same. One can hear and understand completely the gospel message and yet refuse to accept it and obey it.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes miraculously we are given the ears to hear or understand the living word of God ."Let there be" and as a product of his labor "it was God alone good" The law of faith (unseen) the power to believe. . the two fold work as if one. Let the be a God alone good

One work of Christ's faith as a labor of his love. The kind of food or daily bread the Apostles knew not of at first .

Food to Both to hear his understanding and empower dying mankind to do it according to his good pleasure .Yoked with him His daily bread can strengthen believers if they harden not thier hearts

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

It would seem Philippian bears witness of Both do and finish

Philippians2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

I would think the hidden manna (What is it? taste like honey!!! ) spoken of in Revelations 2:17. Therefore we can miraculously pray give it to us . . empower us . your will be done on earth as it is in heaven

 

[JIM]

Is that your answer?

Is that your question?

 

[JIM]

One work of Christ's faith .....

I really do not know what you have in mind when you speak of Christ's faith. That phrase, Christ's faith, if faith carries the meaning of Hebrews 11:1 is an oxymoron.

 

[Arial]

Ya want me to air my dirty laundry? Be careful, I just might.

Shall I start when in grade school , probably aged 10 to 12... and 3 of us were playing, and one got put on the outs.... as will happen when kids play. Except this one time we dipped a cup into gutter water that had had pigeon poison in it a long while back and then filled it with water and gave to this one to drink.

Nothing happened of course.

But we did not know it wouldn't.

And you dont call that free will?

Or do you want the more salacious aspects of temptations in my life. Of course... I forget... none of you ever had any of that.

No, I don't call that free will. I call it persons who made a choice and a "will" that put that choice into action. The fact that they could have made another choice and no one stopped them from making the choice they did, does not make the will free. It was their desires that moved them towards the choice, not their will.

 

[Ritajanice]

Gods will be done...that’s a 100% fact....I think we can hinder his will...if that makes sense, by not understanding it, then of course by his Spirit he brings us to understand his will, by the renewing of our minds.just my thoughts.

So when I did what I did, as explained further up....was that not my choice and will acting together?

Strong willed....but, you can NEVER override the will of God...that’s an impossibility!

Again just my thoughts..nothing biblical.

 

[fastfredy0]

And you dont call that free will?

I shot down you definition of "free will" to which you had not response so there is no sense debating a irrational definition.
Aside: Mind you, you continued to make things confusing by giving several definitions of "free will" so I guessed you believe in the first definition you listed.

God gave you a sin nature such that you are a slave to sin. Thus you are not Free from external influences and therefore your definition of 'free will' is invalid. You are free to follow your will (desires) but you did not chose your desires.

 

[Ritajanice]

I shot down you definition of "free will" to which you had not response so there is no sense debating a irrational definition.
Aside: Mind you, you continued to make things confusing by giving several definitions of "free will" so I guessed you believe in the first definition you listed.

God gave you a sin nature such that you are a slave to sin. Thus you are not Free from external influences and therefore your definition of 'free will' is invalid. You are free to follow your will (desires) but you did not chose your desires.

So if someone desires to get married, is that not their own desire?

Am I understanding your post correctly?

 

[Ritajanice]

If God wills you to become Born Again our will has no say in the matter...I dunno, just thinking out loud,LOL.

 

[Rella]

I shot down you definition of "free will" to which you had not response so there is no sense debating a irrational definition.
Aside: Mind you, you continued to make things confusing by giving several definitions of "free will" so I guessed you believe in the first definition you listed.

God gave you a sin nature such that you are a slave to sin. Thus you are not Free from external influences and therefore your definition of 'free will' is invalid. You are free to follow your will (desires) but you did not chose your desires.

Proving I am not one of the preselected ot be predestined. Which is what I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG> Not everyone is.

I had to grow to where I am today in god.

Time to go on a little vacation.... Bye

 

[Ritajanice]

Proving I am not one of the preselected ot be predestined. Which is what I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG> Not everyone is.

I had to grow to where I am today in god.

Time to go on a little vacation.... Bye

Good point, definitely food for thought..

 

[fastfredy0]

was that not my choice and will acting together?

Strong willed....but, you can NEVER override the will of God...that’s an impossibility!

Your "choice" and your "will" are synonyms. You always do what you desire most at the time, but you don't self-determine your desires. Your desires are partially formed at birth (Psalm 5:5) such that you are born with a sin nature that determines your desires which determines your will/choices. One that is a slave to sin (Romans 6:15-23; Ephesians 2:1-7; Ephesians 4:17-24) does not have "free will" where "free will" is the ability to choose one's desires)

 

[fastfredy0]

So if someone desires to get married, is that not their own desire?

Yes, but you did not chose your desire for "X" or "Y". At no point did your self-create your desires. God creates everything including your desires. Psalm 5:5 say you were conceived in sin ....it's not like God asked you if you wanted a "sin nature" or not.

 

[Ritajanice]

Your "choice" and your "will" are synonyms. You always do what you desire most at the time, but you don't self-determine your desires. Your desires are partially formed at birth (Psalm 5:5) such that you are born with a sin nature that determines your desires which determines your will/choices. One that is a slave to sin (Romans 6:15-23; Ephesians 2:1-7; Ephesians 4:17-24) does not have "free will" where "free will" is the ability to choose one's desires)

I asked you a question who gave me a desire to be married and to be loved?...truly loved?

I don’t understand your post at all, with respect it makes no sense “ to me”.

 

[Alive]

Your "choice" and your "will" are synonyms. You always do what you desire most at the time, but you don't self-determine your desires. Your desires are partially formed at birth (Psalm 5:5) such that you are born with a sin nature that determines your desires which determines your will/choices. One that is a slave to sin (Romans 6:15-23; Ephesians 2:1-7; Ephesians 4:17-24) does not have "free will" where "free will" is the ability to choose one's desires)

In my mind, its a simple concept to say the unredeemed have a will that is not effectual ‘Godward’, but although limited there…is effectual earthward.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, but you did not chose your desire for "X" or "Y". At no point did your self-create your desires. God creates everything including your desires. Psalm 5:5 say you were conceived in sin ....it's not like God asked you if you wanted a "sin nature" or not.

Ah, you answered it...still doesn’t make sense...thanks anyway.

 

[fastfredy0]

I don’t understand your post at all, with respect it makes no sense “ to me”.

By way of example:
At what point in your life did you chose to be female which is the cause of many desires. Since you never choose to be female you never choose desires that tend to go along with being female and thus you were not FREE to control your desires. Your desires control you choices.
Similarly, you did not choose to have a sin nature. A sin nature controls your will. Therefore, you do not self-determine you will and thus your will is not free. (where "free will" is defined as self-determination)

 

[Carbon]

Is that your question?

Is that your answer? Or would you rather not answer me? If so, I’ll move on

 

[Carbon]

If God wills you to become Born Again our will has no say in the matter...I dunno, just thinking out loud,LOL.

Well yes and no

 

[fastfredy0]

In my mind, its a simple concept to say the unredeemed have a will that is not effectual ‘Godward’, but although limited there…is effectual earthward.

Agreed ... I think Romans 6:15-23 states it as being born slaves to sin and those born again are slaves to righteousness where the definition of slave is:

• One who is subservient to or controlled by another.
• One who is subject to or controlled by a specified influence.

Thus, if "free will" be defined as self-determination if seems obvious no one have free will. Thus no one is righteous, no not one.

 

[Ritajanice]

Well yes and no

To you.

Definitely 100% yes to me....Gods will can never be thwarted...when he chooses who become Born Of His seed.

How does your will have a say in the matter?

That’s if that’s what your saying in your post.