Evangelism, rooted in scripture?

[Carbon]

I think we need today more biblical, holy, humble, prayerful and heavenly ministers.

When Peter preached at Pentecost, at least 3000 were pricked in their hearts. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Acte 2:37.
Now there are no more apostles today but I believe the church has lost something distinctive when it comes to preaching.
Consider John the Baptist in Matthew 3:1-12 he preached about the wrath to come.

People just don't want to hear about sin anymore. Finney really had an impact on the world. Like Finney, many do not want to warn man about sin and the wrath to come because it loses converts and money.

However, the bible abounds with teaching about sin as guilt, defilement, depravity, and corruption in the human heart. But too many evangelists today say too little about sin. I wonder in some cases it's because they have little sense about sin themselves. It seems some believe the first thing they must do is win people to Christ by addressing their "felt needs." The things people think they need to hear about, rather than their real spiritual needs.

It seems that many who mention sin and man's guilt just don't go far enough. Don't seem there is much teaching on the natural man being so dead in sin, thet left to himself he is not able to seek God and His forgiveness. And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Eph 2:1-3.
Romans 3:9-18.

They overlook verses such as, Romans 8:7, For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
And 1 Cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Carbon]

Romans 8:7, For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
And 1 Cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned


It seems to me contemporary evangelists think like this. "How can we speak to sinners about their depravity, then ask them to respond to the gospel?"

 

[Carbon]

Today evangelists stress a decisional act of faith. They seem convinced that the first thing they must do is call upon men to believe. It's like they lost the fact of the Holy Spirit being necessary prior to faith. It holds that we believe in order to be born again. Many believe that faith precedes regeneration.

Faith of course is essential to salvation from beginning to end. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”Rom 1:17.
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Heb 11:6.
Biblically, regeneration precedes faith, and I do not believe there is any time lapse between regeneration and the Spirit implanting saving faith in the heart of the sinner.

 

[Carbon]

The Puritans for example believed the law had an evangelistic work. Let a man try to obey the law for salvation, at first he may think he can. then he will learn he cannot be anywhere near as holy as the law demands.

And to my understanding, the law condemns man, pronounces a curse on him, and declares him liable to the wrath of God and hell. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Gal 3:10.

And one important thing contemporary evangelists seem to forget is, that only God can save man by giving him a new heart and a new nature.
The Holy Spirit brings him to the end of the law, Christ Jesus, as the only righteous one to God. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:24.

 

[ChristB4us]

I think we need today more biblical, holy, humble, prayerful and heavenly ministers.

When Peter preached at Pentecost, at least 3000 were pricked in their hearts. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Acte 2:37.
Now there are no more apostles today but I believe the church has lost something distinctive when it comes to preaching.
Consider John the Baptist in Matthew 3:1-12 he preached about the wrath to come.

People just don't want to hear about sin anymore. Finney really had an impact on the world. Like Finney, many do not want to warn man about sin and the wrath to come because it loses converts and money.

You should discern what those Jews were pricked in their hearts for since there are all kinds of sins to repent from.

What had they heard that pricked them in their hearts?

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

That is why I see Peter's call to repent as from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ is how they were to get the remission of sins which is the same call to the Gentiles by how they got the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ, even in His name.

Look at the difference between the two.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Where is Peter's call to the Jews to believe in Him to get this remission of sins as Peter said to the Gentiles?

Where is Peter's call to repent to the Gentiles to get the remission of sins as Peter said to the Jews?

Yet there is only one gospel.

Therefore Peter's call to the Jews that had crucified Jesus in unbelief to repent from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ which is the same call to the Gentiles in how hey both had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[Marilyn C]

I think we need today more biblical, holy, humble, prayerful and heavenly ministers.

When Peter preached at Pentecost, at least 3000 were pricked in their hearts. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Acte 2:37.
Now there are no more apostles today but I believe the church has lost something distinctive when it comes to preaching.
Consider John the Baptist in Matthew 3:1-12 he preached about the wrath to come.

`When He ascended....He Himself gave some to be apostles, ....` (Eph. 4: 10 & 11)

`But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul...` (Acts 14: 14)

`Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.....nor did we seek glory from men neither from you or from others, when we might have made demands as apostles of Christ.` (1 Thess. 1: 1 & 2 6)

`Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who were in Christ before me` (Rom. 16: 7)

etc

 

[ChristB4us]

Now there are no more apostles today but I believe the church has lost something distinctive when it comes to preaching.

I agree with @Marilyn C that God is still supplying apostles today.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Not sure what makes an apostle differ from those other "offices" and although some would believe it means having seen Jesus Christ directly like Paul did by way of a vision or for when He was on earth as His disciples did, I cannot believe that would be accurate way to ascertain who an apostle is.

Granted not very many people today are identifying themselves as an apostle but that does not mean God has not given them to be an apostle & those other offices when it is about edifying the body of Christ in love.

 

[ChristB4us]

And one important thing contemporary evangelists seem to forget is, that only God can save man by giving him a new heart and a new nature.
The Holy Spirit brings him to the end of the law, Christ Jesus, as the only righteous one to God. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:24.

Seeing how they do not have the Holy Spirit yet until they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & are saved, we should look to the scriptures for how sinners were brought to the end of the law & to Jesus Christ.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The Father brings sinners to the Son & gives them to the Son to save rather than the Holy Spirit to be given that credit.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[makesends]

I think we need today more biblical, holy, humble, prayerful and heavenly ministers.

When Peter preached at Pentecost, at least 3000 were pricked in their hearts. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Acte 2:37.
Now there are no more apostles today but I believe the church has lost something distinctive when it comes to preaching.
Consider John the Baptist in Matthew 3:1-12 he preached about the wrath to come.

People just don't want to hear about sin anymore. Finney really had an impact on the world. Like Finney, many do not want to warn man about sin and the wrath to come because it loses converts and money.

However, the bible abounds with teaching about sin as guilt, defilement, depravity, and corruption in the human heart. But too many evangelists today say too little about sin. I wonder in some cases it's because they have little sense about sin themselves. It seems some believe the first thing they must do is win people to Christ by addressing their "felt needs." The things people think they need to hear about, rather than their real spiritual needs.

It seems that many who mention sin and man's guilt just don't go far enough. Don't seem there is much teaching on the natural man being so dead in sin, thet left to himself he is not able to seek God and His forgiveness. And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Eph 2:1-3.
Romans 3:9-18.

They overlook verses such as, Romans 8:7, For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
And 1 Cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

I agree. Look how it has crept into the doctrines of the Church: That God is only ever "fair" to everyone, not particular about much of anything, and loves everybody the same, and gives everyone "equal chance" (whatever that means), and has a special [sweet and wonderful] plan for your life, etc etc etc.

The focus is no longer on God, but what he can do for Man, ("if we would only allow him to").

 

[Carbon]

I agree. Look how it has crept into the doctrines of the Church:

Oh yes indeed.

That God is only ever "fair" to everyone, not particular about much of anything,

Well that’s what people want, a gentleman God who will do things their way.

and loves everybody the same, and gives everyone "equal chance" (whatever that means), and has a special [sweet and wonderful] plan for your life, etc etc etc.

Yes He has a wonderful plan for everyone’s life. Consider the wonderful plan God had for all those who died in the flood while Noah and his family were shut in the ark and saved.

The focus is no longer on God, but what he can do for Man, ("if we would only allow him to").

Yep.

 

[ChristB4us]

I agree. Look how it has crept into the doctrines of the Church: That God is only ever "fair" to everyone, not particular about much of anything, and loves everybody the same, and gives everyone "equal chance" (whatever that means), and has a special [sweet and wonderful] plan for your life, etc etc etc.

The focus is no longer on God, but what he can do for Man, ("if we would only allow him to").

Trust is the basis for all relationships and so the question should be what are we trusting the Lord Jesus Christ for? When it comes to living the Christian life in following Him to abide in His words, do we look to ourselves in doing the best we can like the Jews did under the law or are we looking to Him to do what He said He will do for us under the New Covenant?

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

[Marilyn C]

I agree with @Marilyn C that God is still supplying apostles today.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Not sure what makes an apostle differ from those other "offices" and although some would believe it means having seen Jesus Christ directly like Paul did by way of a vision or for when He was on earth as His disciples did, I cannot believe that would be accurate way to ascertain who an apostle is.

Granted not very many people today are identifying themselves as an apostle but that does not mean God has not given them to be an apostle & those other offices when it is about edifying the body of Christ in love.

I was brought up with apostles, prophets etc. They were not like many who call themselves that today, who are just CEO`s of organisations. An apostle is one who has a revelation of the Lord, His character or purposes, which open up God`s word more to us.

eg. Salvation by faith, believer`s baptism, infilling of the Holy Spirit, gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc. These great truths and others were opened up to men who received further revelation of Christ in His word.

I think of Watchman Nee, Derek Prince, etc although they didn`t have full revelation they did bring in a better understanding of some truth/s. Of course there are many apostles who are not world renown and they would be exemplifying Christ to others in a marked way.

 

[ChristB4us]

I was brought up with apostles, prophets etc. They were not like many who call themselves that today, who are just CEO`s of organisations. An apostle is one who has a revelation of the Lord, His character or purposes, which open up God`s word more to us.

eg. Salvation by faith, believer`s baptism, infilling of the Holy Spirit, gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc. These great truths and others were opened up to men who received further revelation of Christ in His word.

I think of Watchman Nee, Derek Prince, etc although they didn`t have full revelation they did bring in a better understanding of some truth/s. Of course there are many apostles who are not world renown and they would be exemplifying Christ to others in a marked way.

Yet we are to prove all things with Jesus Christ trusting him to be our Good shepherd to help us understand and apply the meat of Hsi words to discern good & evil because Christian leaders in the media will be targeted by the devil to lead astray so as to lead many others astray.

They say a cult will say nine truths and slip in one lie, but they may just be deceived and believe that lie to be true and so we are to prove everything by Him & the meat of His words as kept by those that loved Him & His words in the KJV.

As it is on God to cause the increase is why I understand why not very many consider themselves as apostles even though Paul said he was one.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[makesends]

Trust is the basis for all relationships and so the question should be what are we trusting the Lord Jesus Christ for? When it comes to living the Christian life in following Him to abide in His words, do we look to ourselves in doing the best we can like the Jews did under the law or are we looking to Him to do what He said He will do for us under the New Covenant?

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

They love Romans 8:31, out of context. Their god is one of give and take; they want to be safe, regardless of sin. They do not want to quite entirely submit to his mercy.

 

[ChristB4us]

They love Romans 8:31, out of context. Their god is one of give and take; they want to be safe, regardless of sin. They do not want to quite entirely submit to his mercy.

Not sure how that topic came into the discussion but Romans 8:31 should be applied to saving sinners from their sins since sins are self destructive and thus since God is for us, He will destroy the work of the devil in our lives and bless us by turning us away from our iniquities.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

People just don't want to hear about sin anymore. Finney really had an impact on the world. Like Finney, many do not want to warn man about sin and the wrath to come because it loses converts and money.

Finney? Why do you provoke me, brother?

I agree that the soft peddling of the Gospel is anything but the Gospel. In order for the "Good News" to be good...the Bad News needs be applied first.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I agree with @Marilyn C that God is still supplying apostles today.

Point one out. I'll wait.

 

[ChristB4us]

Point one out. I'll wait.

God will have to cause the increase for you to see the truth that God is challenging the status quo in the churches, rather than some upstart.

He did address seven churches in Revelation where 5 needed repentance and two were told to hold fast or else.

I would believe apostles today are rare and few as hardly any one challenges the status quo of traditional & yet unbiblical practices in churches other than the RCC and yet the Protestant churches are under the same requirement to prove all things by the scripture with Jesus Christ.

If the Protestant churches set the example in holding a reformation in proving all things, they may just inspire other churches to do the same with His help and by His grace.

As for finding out who the apostles are in these latter days, it doesn't matter when it is on God to cause the increase as each of us are to prove everything that comes our way and not take everything at face value any more because leaders can err & the church may follow.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

and by His grace.

As for finding out who the apostles are in these latter days, it doesn't matter when it is on God to cause the increase as each of us are to prove everything that comes our way and not take everything at face value any more because leaders can err & the church may follow.

Oh but it does matter in order to validate your point. As I said...I'll wait. As it stands you are sounding more Gnostic by the minute.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Where are the Epistles of these new "super apostles?" (See 2 Cor. for the definition).