Can the external call of the gospel by itself produce faith in the heart of the natural man?

[Carbon]

I see no faith in Hebrew 6:5

Well, not genuine faith.

I see the author pleading with jews not to return to law. By showing, if a person was saved, and they fell away, it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance.

According to the law. The sacrifice on atonement day gave Israel a clean slate. They were all “symbolically” perfect.

Now the first time

Okay, thanks for sharing.

A person can not lose salvation, So a person can not have temporary faith.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Then why did Jesus have to go to the cross?

If jesus did not go to the cross. We all would be left to our own righteousness. And no one could be saved.

Thats why he

1. Put us all under adam so
2. All have the ability to be put under christ

In adam, All Die. Even though in christ shall all be made alive

What seperates the dead from the living?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Well, not genuine faith.

Okay, thanks for sharing.

Do you believe a person can lose salvation if they lose faith?

 

[Arial]

I guess the way it worked for me is that evidence of the truth of Scripture came from the Holy Spirit, whereupon Scripture was the object of my faith, not the evidence for, nor the source of my faith.

Same here. I knew ---I did not suspect, choose to believe, wonder---no maybes about it. I knew every word int the Bible was true and went looking to discover what they were.

 

[Carbon]

Then why did Jesus have to go to the cross?

Yep. Exactly.

 

[Carbon]

Do you believe a person can lose salvation if they lose faith?

Genuine faith cannot be lost.

 

[Carbon]

@Eternally-Grateful
Thoughts?

Carbon said:
(The lion of Princeton) Dr. Warfield said this: If evidence which is objectively adequate is not subjectively adequate, the fault is in us. If we are not accessible to musical evidence, then we are by nature unmusical, or in a present state of unmusicalness. If we are not accessible to moral evidence, then we are either unmoral or being moral beings, immoral."

 

[Arial]

If jesus did not go to the cross. We all would be left to our own righteousness. And no one could be saved.

Thats why he

1. Put us all under adam so
2. All have the ability to be put under christ

In adam, All Die. Even though in christ shall all be made alive

What seperates the dead from the living?

Where does Scripture say that all have the ability to be put under Christ? And to say they have the ability, doesn't that imply a work on our part? Something we do?

What separates the dead from the living is the new birth in Christ. According to Scripture.

 

[ReverendRV]

Have y'all veted this ain't our honda guy?

 

[Arial]

If jesus did not go to the cross. We all would be left to our own righteousness. And no one could be saved.

That doesn't tell me why he had to go to the cross? What prompted that question was your saying that God has been overcoming man's inability not understand spiritual things. So what was done by Jesus that could only be done by him going to the cross? And how did God do it before Jesus went to the cross?

 

[Carbon]

Have y'all veted this ain't our honda guy?

Huh? Try that in a different language?

 

[ReverendRV]

Huh? Try that in a different language?

Civic?

 

[Carbon]

Civic?

He hasn't been here in a while. he called me a couple of months ago, and haven't heard from him since.

 

[ReverendRV]

He hasn't been here in a while. he called me a couple of months ago, and haven't heard from him since.

EG reminds me of him...

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@Eternally-Grateful
There is more.

Scripture teaches that the natural mind is enmity against God: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:7.

He is also guilty of the law

For all have sinned and fall short

Paul states that the natural (carnal) mind is not only alienated from God, adverse to Him, but is actually enmity (this is very powerful). He represented the carnal mind as enmity itself, not an enemy. Which makes it a vivid and awful idea of man's state by nature. And an enemy may be reconciled, but enmity cannot. The enmity of the carnal heart is against God as the moral Governor of the universe. This is why we must be given a new heart through regeneration.

But are regenerated (made alive) when the penalty of sin is removed.

Not before


Gods justice demands a penalty of sin (death)

God love can not overrule that justice are a way (the cross)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Genuine faith cannot be lost.

Then my point stands, it was a valid point

 

[Arial]

Have you read romans 1?

Many, many, many times. We are saved through faith in the person and work of Jesus. Not by looking at the stars and saying "There is a God. who made all this." Besides he turned us over to our sin.

The things of God is the context of 1 cor

GOD is the context of romans 1

Wouldn't those be the same. Are the things of God different than God?

The things of God would be things about him, things he wants us to do.

Wants us to do? Try commands us to do. Our covenant relationship with God is a relationship but it is not a partnership. But what say about 1 Cor 2:14 is not correct. Before that in 9-13 it says "But, as it is written, 'What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what GAod has prepared for those who love him'--these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit search's everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received it the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is ot able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

As i said yesterday, Romans 3 is the end of this whole process.. The world (chapter 1)The religious or the jews (chapter 2) and the law. It does not matter, because the world is condemned without the law. And the jews are condemned by the law

Chapter 3 says being justified FREELY, Here, Paul says it better than I can

21: But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21–26, NKJV)

See, Both groups are guilty (rom 1 and rom 2)
But the righteousness of Christ is being revealed. (It is revealed to both groups)
We are justified by his grace FREELY (it costs us nothing, But it cost CHrist his life (redemption)
And who is given this righteousness? Who is justified? Those typo whome have faith, faith in what? The righteousness of God. The gospel.

Change of subject.

Romans 1 says everyone understand good..Everyone would include you and me and everyone else on earth. And everyone who came before us
He does understand, Romans 1 - 3 proves this

That is not what Romans 1 says, and it is post fall. What it says is 18-22
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteounsess of men, wh by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools---"

Paul is saying the same thing in 1 Cor 2:14. Fools with darkened foolish heart cannot understand spiritual things.

Do what????

Answer the question?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@Eternally-Grateful
Thoughts?

I have no thoughts

It was a bunch of words which to me had no real meaning. I could not understand them, or how it fits in our conversation. Thats why I did not respond to it

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Where does Scripture say that all have the ability to be put under Christ?

John 3 Romans 3 to name a few

And to say they have the ability, doesn't that imply a work on our part? Something we do?

lol. Is this why people are so agreed to place their faith in christ. Because it is some work of merit?

I have never understood what the fear is, this thinking makes no sense to me.

What separates the dead from the living is the new birth in Christ. According to Scripture.

According to scripture

What seperates them is faith

He who believes is not condemned (new birth happened because they trusted the savior)

He who does not believe is condemned already

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Have y'all veted this ain't our honda guy?

Sadly, I think we are so close to having the same belief, yet so far..

I am not hear to convince you I am right. People are free to believe as they want. And unlike your true enemy (the arminian) you at least have faith in Gods promise and his ability to keep us from falling