Eternal life, given or offered?

[Ladodgers6]

I know full well what impute means. And if one sin of Adam imputed to me condemned me to eternal damnation, what do you the sins of the whole world imputed to Jesus would do? Clearly neither happened. And you call me ignorant?

Okay, JIM, explain what Imputed means.

 

[Ladodgers6]

What is sad is your adherence to the Augustinian heresy he carried in from his Gnosticism.

HaHaHaHa, again very misinformed. Can you provide the reference that Augustine got the Imputation of Adam's Sin from Gnosticism?

 

[JIM]

Okay, JIM, explain what Imputed means.

λογίζομαι
logizomai
log-id'-zom-ahee
Middle voice from G3056; to take an inventory, that is, estimate (literally or figuratively): - conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

 

[Ladodgers6]

Arminians, Can you show one verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

I believe this is a misconception. When the Proclamation of the Gospel is preached it's not a political rally to get people to vote for their salvation. Saying that Satan has cast his vote for your soul and God has casted his vote for your soul, and you're the deciding vote; tie breaker. The Gospel is a calling to God's people to come forth out of the darkness into His marvelous light. His people will hear His voice and follow him. Christ came to do His Father's will, which is to save those whom the Father gave to the Son to save. And he should lose none of them, for no one can snatch them out of my Father hand.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

λογίζομαι
logizomai
log-id'-zom-ahee
Middle voice from G3056; to take an inventory, that is, estimate (literally or figuratively): - conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

Yeah, getting the dictionary to find the definition is not the Biblical teaching of the Imputed Righteousness of Christ or the Imputed Sin of Adam. Can you provide the Biblical theological teaching of it?

 

[Arial]

My sins are not imputed to Christ. If they were, then He would not have been the perfect pure sacrifice.

You need to do a legit study of that term imputed as used in the Bible before you go saying things like that. No doubt you won't do so. Claiming rightness is much more important than making sure one is right after all. (Sarcasm)

There was a time in order to check such a thing, one had to have and retrieve from wherever they are languishing, Bible dictionaries, lexicons, concordances, actual Bibles. If they weren't owned, it would take a trip to the library. Now it is just a matter of pushing a few buttons on the same device one is using to engage in the forum. It seems the easier things become, the less some people care about it.

 

[Arial]

What is sad is your adherence to the Augustinian heresy he carried in from his Gnosticism.

Could we have an example of an Augustinian heresy and also the same thing found in Gnostisim? Or should we just take your word for it?

 

[Arial]

I know full well what impute means. And if one sin of Adam imputed to me condemned me to eternal damnation, what do you the sins of the whole world imputed to Jesus would do? Clearly neither happened. And you call me ignorant?

The one sin of Adam did not condemn you. The one sin of Adam made you what you are----a sinner who sins. Now, tell me, what does impute mean biblically?

The sins of the whole world were not imputed to Jesus. Only the sins of the elect---the believer. Can you see why it was necessary that Jesus go to the cross and die for specific people? Think it through. Slowly and carefully following the straight line of your favorite thing---logic. Well, maybe you shouldn't. It will turn both your idea of no imputed sin of Adam passing to man and your idea that your sins are not imputed to Jesus, on its head. As well as your belief that salvation rests on the decision of individuals. Adam's sin brought sin to all men (Adam means human. Adam is human and Adam became a sinner. Humans then are sinners as a result.)

The imputation is not the same. Adam really became a sinner and the fact that he is a sinner brings the sin as a part of all men. Imputes. Jesus was not a sinner. The sins of the elect are imputed to him for the purpose of him satisfying God's justice against the believers sin. He did not actually become a sinner. He became a ransom. He gave himself in our place, and paid our sin debt. And because of that, his righteousness is imputed to the believer. We are not currently actually perfectly righteous, but his righteousness is counted as our own while we await the consummation. We are justified through faith in Christ, before God. Fully reconciled to him as our sin debt is paid in full by Christ. Christ takes out through the imputation of our sins, (the believer) what Adam put in. He conquered the power of sin and death to condemn the believer.

 

[JIM]

The one sin of Adam did not condemn you. The one sin of Adam made you what you are----a sinner who sins. Now, tell me, what does impute mean biblically?

And just who did that? God? Nah!

 

[JIM]

Yeah, getting the dictionary to find the definition is not the Biblical teaching of the Imputed Righteousness of Christ or the Imputed Sin of Adam. Can you provide the Biblical theological teaching of it?

There isn't any biblical teaching of the imputed sin of Adam to anyone else.

 

[Arial]

And just who did that? God? Nah!

No one says God did it JIM. Adam did it. So what is your argument now? Now, could you give me your refutation of the rest of my post #108. To pick and choose and only deal with what you think you can (but don't) is----well---unjust. And rude.

 

[Ladodgers6]

There isn't any biblical teaching of the imputed sin of Adam to anyone else.

More conjecture. Why is everyone under the curse of the Law?

 

[Mr GLee]

I know full well what impute means. And if one sin of Adam imputed to me condemned me to eternal damnation, what do you the sins of the whole world imputed to Jesus would do? Clearly neither happened. And you call me ignorant?

God is not a man as us

Have you sinned before?

Refusing to understand can be considered ignorant (lacking knowledge )

Faith = Power . . .No faith = no power

Adam's sin (unbelief no faith ) is not imputed to you. Each man dies because of thier own .

Psalm 58:3 As son as they are born mankind proves himself as a liar

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upo

 

[Red Baker]

Red, every one of the verses that you cite claiming "the faith OF Jesus" are simply one more place where the KJV errs. Even John Gill recognizes that even though his thinking about the meaning or result of faith in Jesus is more than a bit off.

Your trust in the translators of the KJV and associated mistrust in just about every other English translation is terribly misguided.

Jim, good morning~even though I highly respect men like Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and Gill, and a few others, they are only men like you and I, subject to error, and error they and we all have, even though not purposely, but, living in this body of sin and death, we cannot avoid it. It grieves us to know just how weak we are ~ but thank God, one day soon we shall forever be free from this body of sin and death, through, and because of, the Jesus Christ triumphant victory over both.

I trust God's promise of giving us a Bible (Psalms 12) without error, a Bible we can lay down our life for, defending every word coming from the mouth of God, every single word, my friend....

Galatians 3:16​

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

But, enough on this subject in this thread.

But, Jim, I did addressed your post #88, which you said not one word concerning.

No man ever had faith like Jesus did ... even after God forsook Him on the cross ... He still by faith, confidently committed His spirit to Him. Hallelujah!

Matthew 27:43

Matthew 27:46

Luke 23:46

Hebrews 2:13 cp 11:6
Also, consider:

Our Lord’s faith, or His confidence and trust in God, is a certain and great fact of the gospel, for He had greater faith His entire life than Abraham or other examples of faith.

Justification is by obedience of One, and He obeyed in life and death (Rom 5:15-19), which obedience could not have pleased God without being founded on great faith.

Jim, please consider: Scripture says by prophecy and fulfillment He trusted God (Ps 16:1; 18:2; Heb 2:13). Our Jesus was more faithful than Moses, who had great faith (Heb 3:1-6; 11:23-29). His prayer in Gethsemane was heard due to His fear and faith (Heb 5:7-8; Mat 21:22). His perfect obedience to the will of God secured our sanctification (Heb 10:7-10). But without faith, He could not have pleased God (Heb 11:6; Matt 23:23; John 8:29). When compared to all the examples of faith from the Old Testament (Heb 11:1-40), Jesus is clearly the superior example of faith we should aspire to follow (Heb 12:1-2).

Jesus is not the object of justifying knowledge, making it our knowledge; but rather He is the subject of it, for justification is by His knowledge of God’s will (Is 53:11). The knowledge Jesus had was that faith and confidence in God that led Him all His life, took Him through Gethsemane, His horrible trial, and His miserable crucifixion, until He finally committed His spirit to His Father at the moment of death. His enemies testified that He had great faith and trust in God (Ps 16:8; Matt 27:43). How can there be greater faith than giving His soul to God (Lu 23:46 cp Mat 27:46). His perfect fulfillment and obedience to the law required more faith than any man.

 

[Red Baker]

A few more thoughts on Justification, when understood properly one can see that eternal life is freely given, never offered to sinners as though they had the power to receive it on their own power.

We must learn to distinguish between our free Justification and our works. The first is perfect and complete in Christ; the latter is in ourselves, and is weak and uncertain; until a soul be settled in the doctrine of free Justification, the souls objections cannot be answered; for he that understands not the true nature and doctrine of Justification, cannot enjoy true settled constant peace and consolation~ for in the right understanding of Justification, lieth the life of the Saints comfort, and peace and joy, and a true understanding of the gospel overall.

We must never allow our comfort depend upon our own personal work, knowing that our best and most holy moments are mixed with sins, because of this, there can no sure settled constant comfort flow~knowing anyone seeking of comfort from their works, (if they have true faith) is a cause of much trouble in many weak believers; for works hath nothing to do with Justification, from before the tribunal of God as any cause of it~ neither does Justification depends upon our apprehending it, not in our receiving it, but upon what the Lord Jesus hath done for us. Justification before the tribunal of God is secured by Christ's obedience alone, even though it's apprehended by our faith in the scriptures from whence we derive our faith by the new man within us.

The Spirit and faith doth evidence to us our Justification; all that believe are Justified. (Acts 13:39) It is possible to have a full assurance of faith; (Heb.10:22) for faith is unquestionable evidence of our free justification~ and when faith is hidden and doubtful, Justification is not apprehended, and when faith is hidden and doubtful, our godly works is not evident but doubtful, and so cannot evidence to us our Justification~ Seeing then that Christ is made Sanctification to a believer, (Ist Corinthians 1:30) why may not a soul live upon that; and say, I have Sanctification in Christ, which is perfect~ our actual righteousness doth often fail us, but Jesus is perfect now and forever world without end. This is where all saints draw comfort, peace, and joy from~SURELY NOT from any works that we have or can do.

 

[JIM]

No one says God did it JIM. Adam did it.

The power to change the universe as some in the Reformed Theology claim to have occurred when Adam sinned is, if not infinite, very close to being infinite. If Adam did it, just where did he get such power? Only God could do that. But He didn't.

And who but God would have the power and the authority to impute the sin of Adam upon the whole rest of mankind? The God of the Bible would not commit such injustice. That you think He would tells me all I need to know about the religion you profess. It's flat wrong.

And that is my refutation to the rest of your post #108.

So what is your argument now? Now, could you give me your refutation of the rest of my post #108. To pick and choose and only deal with what you think you can (but don't) is----well---unjust. And rude.

 

[JIM]

Jim, good morning~even though I highly respect men like Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and Gill, and a few others, they are only men like you and I, subject to error, and error they and we all have, even though not purposely, but, living in this body of sin and death, we cannot avoid it. It grieves us to know just how weak we are ~ but thank God, one day soon we shall forever be free from this body of sin and death, through, and because of, the Jesus Christ triumphant victory over both.

Amen to that.

But, Jim, I did addressed your post #88, which you said not one word concerning.

Yes, you did address it, but you did so again with a bad translation. I know you think the KJV is God's perfect and error-free English translation, but that cannot be substantiated. And I am not aware of any credible authority or expert or commentator that believes that. It can't even be shown that the Greek text from which the KJV was translated was even an error-free copy of the original text. In fact, it is almost universally agreed that it contained any number of variances from the original. You should look it up. There is no lack of information on the subject on the internet.

 

[JIM]

A few more thoughts on Justification, when understood properly one can see that eternal life is freely given, never offered to sinners as though they had the power to receive it on their own power.

We must learn to distinguish between our free Justification and our works. The first is perfect and complete in Christ; the latter is in ourselves, and is weak and uncertain; until a soul be settled in the doctrine of free Justification, the souls objections cannot be answered; for he that understands not the true nature and doctrine of Justification, cannot enjoy true settled constant peace and consolation~ for in the right understanding of Justification, lieth the life of the Saints comfort, and peace and joy, and a true understanding of the gospel overall.

We must never allow our comfort depend upon our own personal work, knowing that our best and most holy moments are mixed with sins, because of this, there can no sure settled constant comfort flow~knowing anyone seeking of comfort from their works, (if they have true faith) is a cause of much trouble in many weak believers; for works hath nothing to do with Justification, from before the tribunal of God as any cause of it~ neither does Justification depends upon our apprehending it, not in our receiving it, but upon what the Lord Jesus hath done for us. Justification before the tribunal of God is secured by Christ's obedience alone, even though it's apprehended by our faith in the scriptures from whence we derive our faith by the new man within us.

The Spirit and faith doth evidence to us our Justification; all that believe are Justified. (Acts 13:39) It is possible to have a full assurance of faith; (Heb.10:22) for faith is unquestionable evidence of our free justification~ and when faith is hidden and doubtful, Justification is not apprehended, and when faith is hidden and doubtful, our godly works is not evident but doubtful, and so cannot evidence to us our Justification~ Seeing then that Christ is made Sanctification to a believer, (Ist Corinthians 1:30) why may not a soul live upon that; and say, I have Sanctification in Christ, which is perfect~ our actual righteousness doth often fail us, but Jesus is perfect now and forever world without end. This is where all saints draw comfort, peace, and joy from~SURELY NOT from any works that we have or can do.

What I find interesting in all of this is that the monergist cannot even know that he has been regenerated. I know the claim is made that they can be known by one means or another, but that simply is not so stated in the Bible.

Prove to me, through Scripture, that you have been regenerated. Prove to me through Scripture that you have that new man within you.

 

[JIM]

Arminians, Can you show one verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

Calvinists, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where eternal life is given to you, personally? What is your assurance that you, personally, have been regenerated?

 

[David Lamb]

Calvinists, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where eternal life is given to you, personally? What is your assurance that you, personally, have been regenerated?

John in his first letter writes this:

“10 ¶ He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may [continue to] believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:10-13 NKJV)