Eternal life, given not offered.

[praise_yeshua]

Snide comments are a deliberate refusal to engage your opponent's argument. But it's hard to argue against scripture (John 17:1-2), so I can't blame you.

Wait—yes, I can.

I can read. I read John 17:1-2 just now. I reviewed the evidence again. (as I have in the past too many times to list.

I'll believe what it says in contrast to what you claim it says?

Why reference what these supposed "reformers" say about it when I can it read it myself?

More fallacious irrelevance (attacking the Reformers instead of engaging the argument).

Weak men are always part of the conversation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I also do not believe it is offered.

Then why the public display? Why the appeal to all men.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Question,

How are we to advance the kingdom? Or are we?

Scripture, please.

I preach what the apostles preached. I'm not adding anything.

As far I'm concerned God doesn't owe mankind anything. Nothing. Our ancestors have repeatedly rejected God. "Advancing the Kingdom" will come directly from God in His next Divine action and soon Return.

If you want your family or friends to know God, then you have a responsibility to tell them and convince them.

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It seems so easy to forget the context. Did you notice verse 34? Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die.
Jesus makes an illusion between his being lifted up on the cross and going up into heaven.
Do you see his meaning, that he will not only overcome the devil by his death in his own person but by the means of his satisfaction, being lifted up into glory. He is teaching because He is the head, he will effectually draw up all his members, true believers out of the captivity of the devil.
So, all men means not only the Jews but of the Gentiles also.

Therefore it says,

“When He ascended on high,
He led captive the captives,
And He gave gifts to people.” Eph 4:8.

Not discount what you wrote but there is more to this than just what you mentioned above.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

"Look and live"?

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I can read. I read John 17:1-2 just now. I reviewed the evidence again (as I have in the past, too many times to list).

I'll believe what it says in contrast to what you claim it says?

Carbon asked if anyone can show, from any verse in the Bible, where eternal life is offered rather than given. My answer was, "No," and then I quoted a relevant passage where Jesus explicitly said that the Father had given him authority over all humanity so that he may give eternal life to everyone the Father has given him.

Again, I quoted the passage. Contrary to what this person implied, I did not make any claims about it.

Why reference what these supposed "reformers" say about it when I can it read it myself?

And no reference is made anywhere in my post to what any Reformers had to say about that passage.

This person's responses to me just don't make any sense.

Weak men are always part of the conversation.

More irrelevant commentary. I sincerely wish this person would post a relevant, meaningful response.

Alas, if wishes were fishes ...

 

[His clay]

Can you show from any verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

I think that it may be helpful to define what is meant by "offer." What do you mean when you ask the question?

If you are asking if the gospel is resistable, in the Arminian sense, after God gives prevenient grace to the make the gospel ultimately dependent upon a libertarian freedom choice, and that colors the meaning of your definition, then I would say that I don't hold to that view. I do not hold to libertarian freedom or the Arminian idea of prevenient grace, so that does not color my idea of the meaning of "offer". Yes, the unregenerate does hear the gospel; and the unregenerate, if left to his/her own devices will always reject the gospel. We can understand the presentation of the gospel generally as a presentation that appeals to the mind and volition (repent and believe) of the unregenerate. The demands are presented to them, and in this general sense one may call this gospel appeal an "offer". But this does not mean the the unregenerate have the moral ability to obey (to repent and believe). This inability is not anything at all like physical chains or bars that prevent human action; rather, the inability is the depravity of their own hearts and nature, and due to this depravity they do not want to believe or repent. They love their sin more than Jesus, and so reprentance is simply impossible. They don't love the light that exposes sin, and so they run from it. It is only when God mercifully works in their hearts and changes their disposition toward Christ and sin that a person then believes and repents.

This discussion demonstrates some key features between the effectual call and the general call. In one, the gospel is presented before the unbeliever, and he/she learns of the demands of the gospel, the depravity of his own heart, the just penalty of sin in hell, and the work of Christ upon the cross. In the other, the same gospel is presented before the person, but God also makes that person alive (Eph 2:5), and thusly the gospel is effective.

 

[His clay]

They key issue is the issue of libertarian freedom. I really think that this assumption is the main source of how people interpret the issue differently. The Calvinist does not hold to libertarian freedom in conversion, so his/her view of the "offer" will significantly differ from the Arm/non-C version. Does God leave the effectiveness of the gospel up to the libertarian freedom of the individual who hears? I really think that the prior question pegs the main issue.

 

[brightfame52]

Can you show from any verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

Its given to the elect , those given to Christ Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
The word give/didōmi here means:
to bestow a gift, to furnish, endue

In fact the word should denotes a obligation to give them eternal life, Christ is responsible to do just that.

 

[brightfame52]

Eternal Life is given first, which is Spiritual life, in order that we can come to know/believe in the True God and Jesus Christ who He hath sent Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life[aka salvation] to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

This indicates regeneration before faith.