Ephesians 2:8 challenge

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

 

[Josheb]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

Ooooooooo......

No mention of grace? "Grace" is a "jargon word"?

 

[Josheb]

Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration.

I reject the restriction.

Can you do it?

No! And perhaps that is the point(?).

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words.

The grace by which a person is saved, the faith through which a person is saved, and the relevant salvation from sin are all gifts of God. No one does anything to deserve it, earn, or obtain it.

 

[EarlyActs]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

Instead of healing, it needs to be declared or counted righteous. It's in rare territory, and only has an outside reference to healing (in the letter, that would be a healing of unity of diverse believers rather than medical).

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Ooooooooo......

No mention of grace? "Grace" is a "jargon word"?

I'd say so. Grace isn't really a word used in everyday speech.

perhaps that is the point(?).

The point was to see how different people understand the verse. That's hard to do if people use words for which we don't all have the same meaning.

-Jarrod

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Instead of healing, it needs to be declared or counted righteous. It's in rare territory, and only has an outside reference to healing (in the letter, that would be a healing of unity of diverse believers rather than medical).

I think this word in verse 8 is referring back to verse 5 where it says they were "made alive" or "quickened" depending on what version you use.

That's a resurrection - well, a figurative one anyway. Still, a resurrection is a type of healing.

Also, the Greek word used there is translated as 'healing' in most other spots in the KJB, so why not here too?

-Jarrod

 

[David1701]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

Grace, save, salvation, faith and regeneration are not "jargon words"!

Salvation is much more than "healing".

The gift from God is salvation-by-grace-through-faith (the whole package).

The only way to paraphrase Eph. 2:8, without using any of the words you don't want, is to multiply words (especially for "saved"). Since salvation encompasses so much, it would probably take a couple of paragraphs, and it would include other words that you would probably treat as "jargon".

 

[David1701]

Yes. Grace isn't really used in everyday speech. Only in a specific setting... and that's the definition of jargon.

We have a proverb in Scotland, "There, but for the grace of God, go I.". Perhaps you've heard of it?

We say "grace" before a meal.

Grace is used as a woman's name (and they often know what it means).

There's a famous hymn, "Amazing Grace", that nearly everyone in Scotland has heard of.

The adjectival form "gracious", and the adverbial form "graciously" are still used fairly often.

It's not jargon; besides which, this is a Christian forum and almost everyone here would be expected to know what "grace" means; so, it is definitely not jargon to us.

 

[Soyeong]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

There are no good works that we need to do first that results in becoming freed from having the experience of not doing good works, but rather having the experience of doing good works is the gift of God.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

There are no good works that we need to do first that results in becoming freed from having the experience of not doing good works, but rather having the experience of doing good works is the gift of God.

Is that your paraphrase, or just a statement you're making?

 

[Soyeong]

Is that your paraphrase, or just a statement you're making?

That is my paraphrase.

 

[ppierac]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

I'll let the other Paul do it.....
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

Your turn.... and I'm sure it's not willingly too!!!

Paul

 

[EarlyActs]

I think this word in verse 8 is referring back to verse 5 where it says they were "made alive" or "quickened" depending on what version you use.

That's a resurrection - well, a figurative one anyway. Still, a resurrection is a type of healing.

Also, the Greek word used there is translated as 'healing' in most other spots in the KJB, so why not here too?

-Jarrod

The reason is in the overall usage of Paul. Salvation has two present-life aspects, the legal and the transformational. The legal (justification) is about past sin-as-debt. To be in Christ is to gain his righteousness as an infinite credit toward that debt so that we don't stink of guilt when we function of life.
The 2nd is personal transformation which is motivated or driven by justification.

The 4 doctrinal letters (Gal, Eph, Phil, Col) are an interesting study on the creative re-expression of justification. Gal is not actually re-expression, but not as much detail as its 'parent' letter, Romans, which is very detailed. Eph uniquely refers to salvation without using the legal term. Phil mentions the justifying righteousness of Christ in ch 3 as so necessary that all of Paul's life in Judaism was rot. Col is the most intriguing in that the opponents (sort of neo-Judaism) have declared that believers are dis-justified until they practice Judaism. Obviously Paul could not say that unless justification was by Christ a alone.

There is of course a soundness of mind from salvation, but he himself got no relief from his 'thorn in the flesh' did he? Dr. Schaeffer (L'Abri) would call this soundness of mind 'a substantial psychological healing' as something apart from what we might call medical. We see the features of it in the end of ch 3:
*a belief in one god for all
*an affirmation of the morality of the Law
*the end of boasting
At the beginning of ch 5 there is more:
*the peace mentioned here is about our debt account; I believe reconciliation is often meant in the accounting sense, as in v11 (notice that we passively receive it vs we were part of providing it)
*to live in grace
*to 'boast' in the hope of God's glory (rather than our own!), see a 2nd hope below
*perseverance
*proven character
*a certain amount of hope within us through proven character

All these things are indeed substantial psychological healing, but not the medical sense of things like blindness or paralysis.

 

[Eleanor]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration.

Your respect for the word of God written is too minimal for you to be taken seriously.

Come out of your ignorance and into knowledge by receiving, studying and understanding God's word written.

Can you do it?

Don't care to do so. The word of God is absolutely sufficient.

It's your job to study and learn it.

We don't alter the language of physics for physics students. They get to learn the language of their topic, and so do you.

 

[atpollard]

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

I would start with the NLT and by NOT plucking one verse from its paragraph:

Ephesians 2:8-10 [NLT]
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Then I would reword the “ChristIan jargon” into more vernacular speech that explained the meaning behind the words.

God restored the relationship between you and Him by his undeserved favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. This forgiveness of our wrongs and the peace of our restored relationship is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's crowning achievement, His great work of transformation and change. He has created us anew in His Chosen One Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. - Ephesians 2:8-10 [Arthur Paraphrase Version]

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

That is my paraphrase.

Interesting. It's not really close to how I read it at all, but it seems you are able to articulate it in your own words. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I'll let the other Paul do it.....
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

Your turn.... and I'm sure it's not willingly too!!!

Paul

d

It's my turn... to what? I already gave my paraphase at the beginning.

-Jarrod

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The reason is in the overall usage of Paul.

Ephesians 2 is the only place where Paul uses the Greek word σεσῳσμένοι (perfect-tense of σῴζω).

This word is used in 8 other places in the New Testament. The other 8 are all in the gospels, and every one of them refers to someone being healed of a physical illness.

Or, maybe you're referring to a different word and I've misunderstood?

Salvation has two present-life aspects, the legal and the transformational. The legal (justification) is about past sin-as-debt. To be in Christ is to gain his righteousness as an infinite credit toward that debt so that we don't stink of guilt when we function of life.

The 2nd is personal transformation which is motivated or driven by justification.

The 4 doctrinal letters (Gal, Eph, Phil, Col) are an interesting study on the creative re-expression of justification. Gal is not actually re-expression, but not as much detail as its 'parent' letter, Romans, which is very detailed. Eph uniquely refers to salvation without using the legal term. Phil mentions the justifying righteousness of Christ in ch 3 as so necessary that all of Paul's life in Judaism was rot. Col is the most intriguing in that the opponents (sort of neo-Judaism) have declared that believers are dis-justified until they practice Judaism. Obviously Paul could not say that unless justification was by Christ a alone.

It seems that you read Ephesians 2 as being about justification? I don't see justification in this chapter. Like, the word literally isn't there.

I read it as being about regeneration. I guess that word isn't here either, but we do have the word συνεζωοποίησεν - to bring to life.

There is of course a soundness of mind from salvation, but he himself got no relief from his 'thorn in the flesh' did he? Dr. Schaeffer (L'Abri) would call this soundness of mind 'a substantial psychological healing' as something apart from what we might call medical. We see the features of it in the end of ch 3:
*a belief in one god for all
*an affirmation of the morality of the Law
*the end of boasting
At the beginning of ch 5 there is more:
*the peace mentioned here is about our debt account; I believe reconciliation is often meant in the accounting sense, as in v11 (notice that we passively receive it vs we were part of providing it)
*to live in grace
*to 'boast' in the hope of God's glory (rather than our own!), see a 2nd hope below
*perseverance
*proven character
*a certain amount of hope within us through proven character

All these things are indeed substantial psychological healing, but not the medical sense of things like blindness or paralysis.

'Substantial psychological healing' is a good turn of phrase to put it in modern terms, rather than archaic ones.

As I read it, Eph 2 opens with the Ephesians being declared dead (metaphorically), and then Paul says that Christ has made them alive (also metaphorical), and then he refers to this in verse 8. It could be called a healing, or resurrection, or regeneration.

v.1 And you [Ephesians], who were dead in trespasses and sins...
v.5 ...[God] made us alive together with Christ...
v.8 ...you have been [saved? healed? resurrected? regenerated?] through faith

-Jarrod

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I would start with the NLT and by NOT plucking one verse from its paragraph:

Ephesians 2:8-10 [NLT]
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

Then I would reword the “ChristIan jargon” into more vernacular speech that explained the meaning behind the words.

God restored the relationship between you and Him by his undeserved favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. This forgiveness of our wrongs and the peace of our restored relationship is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's crowning achievement, His great work of transformation and change. He has created us anew in His Chosen One Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. - Ephesians 2:8-10 [Arthur Paraphrase Version]

I'm not usually a fan of the NLT, but this all seems very reasonable.

 

[Eleanor]

As I read it, Eph 2 opens with the Ephesians being declared dead (metaphorically),

Spiritual death (absence of eternal life in the human spirit) is not metaphorical, it is actual spiritual loss, by Adam in the fall.

and then Paul says that Christ has made them alive (also metaphorical), and then he refers to this in verse 8. It could be called a healing, or resurrection, or regeneration.

v.1 And you [Ephesians], who were dead in trespasses and sins...
v.5 ...[God] made us alive together with Christ...
v.8 ...you have been [saved? healed? resurrected? regenerated?] through faith

Which actual spiritual life lost in the fall is actually restored in the new birth; i.e.. regeneration, one of those "jargon" words.