The Son of David was expected to cast out demons?

[Tambora]

I did not ask whether you cared.

So???
Get off your high horse, buddy.
I'll talk about what I want to talk about in the way I want to, just like you do.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Son of David, a title of the promised Messiah.

We have an instance where two faithful men expected that the Son of David could physically heal them of blindness:

Matthew 9 ESV​

(27) And as Jesus passed on from there, two blind men followed him, crying aloud, “Have mercy on us, Son of David.”​

(28) When he entered the house, the blind men came to him, and Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” They said to him, “Yes, Lord.”​

(29) Then he touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith be it done to you.”​

We have an instance where what Jesus, the Son of David, could do was never seen done before in Israel:

Matthew 9 ESV​

(32) As they were going away, behold, a demon-oppressed man who was mute was brought to him.​

(33) And when the demon had been cast out, the mute man spoke. And the crowds marveled, saying, “Never was anything like this seen in Israel.”​

We have an instance of an expectation that the Son of David could cast out demons:

Matthew 12 ESV​

(22) Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw.​

(23) And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?"​

The question:
Do we find any OT scriptures that would lead people to believe the Son of David (a title used for their prophesied Messiah) would have to be one with the ability to cast out demons?
What OT verses would lead them to expect this proof of the Son of David?
Do we have any prophetic OT scriptures of King David casting out a demon from a dumb and blind man or physically healing one of blindness?
Where did they get the notion that the Son of David must be one that would perform the miracle of casting out demons in a way that had never been seen before in Israel?


And let us not forget that this expected power of the Son of David to cast out demons was not limited to Jews.

Matthew 15 ESV​

(22) And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.”​

(23) But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.”​

(24) He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”​

(25) But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”​

(26) And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”​

(27) She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.”​

(28) Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.​

You misunderstand what "demons" are. They are not any created being. It is not any fallen angel or any other created being in creation for there is only the spirit of angels, the spirit of man, and the Holy Spirit in creation. Demons are the attitudes - good or evil - in man. Jesus makes mention that even the children of these religious leaders cast out "demons" or ["evil] attitudes." He is referring to a mental disposition in man whether evil or good.

19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. 20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Lk 11:18–26.

The word "he" in these verses (beginning vs. 24) doesn't exist as a male pronoun. It's not in the original text. Nor does the male pronoun exist in the continued statements describing the evil attitude which was "cast out." The story is an existential explanation of the attitudes that come from man. It is more understandable when you understand Jesus is describing an "unclean spirit" or attitude." He is not referencing angels or any other spirit being in creation because the only beings in creation are angel and man. And "demons" are not fallen angels.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Son of David, a title of the promised Messiah.

We have an instance where two faithful men expected that the Son of David could physically heal them of blindness:

Matthew 9 ESV​

(27) And as Jesus passed on from there, two blind men followed him, crying aloud, “Have mercy on us, Son of David.”​

(28) When he entered the house, the blind men came to him, and Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” They said to him, “Yes, Lord.”​

(29) Then he touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith be it done to you.”​

We have an instance where what Jesus, the Son of David, could do was never seen done before in Israel:

Matthew 9 ESV​

(32) As they were going away, behold, a demon-oppressed man who was mute was brought to him.​

(33) And when the demon had been cast out, the mute man spoke. And the crowds marveled, saying, “Never was anything like this seen in Israel.”​

We have an instance of an expectation that the Son of David could cast out demons:

Matthew 12 ESV​

(22) Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw.​

(23) And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?"​

The question:
Do we find any OT scriptures that would lead people to believe the Son of David (a title used for their prophesied Messiah) would have to be one with the ability to cast out demons?
What OT verses would lead them to expect this proof of the Son of David?
Do we have any prophetic OT scriptures of King David casting out a demon from a dumb and blind man or physically healing one of blindness?
Where did they get the notion that the Son of David must be one that would perform the miracle of casting out demons in a way that had never been seen before in Israel?


And let us not forget that this expected power of the Son of David to cast out demons was not limited to Jews.

Matthew 15 ESV​

(22) And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.”​

(23) But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.”​

(24) He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”​

(25) But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”​

(26) And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.”​

(27) She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.”​

(28) Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.​

Exactly. I would offer.

Mankind refusing to understand the metaphor "Son of David (used that way 198 times) in parables .

Biblical Parables . . comparing the temporal things seen to the eternal not see. .(2 Corinthians 4:18) understanding by faith. The invisible power of God .

Yoked with Christ working in us he can make the daily burdens lighter .

Signs as lying wonder seekers rather than prophecy . Satan the king of lying signs to wonder after .(His voice) it makes prophecy without effect. )

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

I would offer a perfect example of dying mankind having. . . no understanding the unseen eternal things of God.

The same ones that tried to make a circus seal out of Christ who worked in the Son of man, Jesus .They having no vison beyond tip of thier nose, the temporal. . . they attributed the work of the gospel literally to the hands of dying mankind ..

Acts 14:7-14 And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying

Interesting Satan the counterfeiter robs the order of eternal God. Barnabus (Jupiter) "sky father God of gods ". Paul (Mercury) the priest heralder of the gospel.

Laying on of hands is simply another form of prayer or request. No power from dying mankind.

Exodus 7:1-3King James Version7 And the Lord said unto Moses, (The law giver) See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land. And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt

Signs to wonder after for those who have no faith as it is written (prophecy) . . . the power by which they could please God.

Wondering, sufferings, marveling is not believing. . .

 

[Josheb]

So???

So..... the previous post unnecessarily made the discussion personal (and defensively so, and did not answer the questions asked. Then when that "I don't care..." was reflected back the response is no overtly adversarial.

Get off your high horse, buddy.

Ah, yes, the ubiquitous hypocrisy and arrogance of presuming to off topically judge another's horse instead of answering the question asked and furthering the discussion without rancor.

No high horse on my end. Just a simple, valid, and op-relevant pair of questions that could have been answered with good will and collaboration when first asked.

I'll talk about what I want to talk about in the way I want to, just like you do.

No one has said you couldn't.... as long as the forum's rules are abided.




The book cited, "The Lesser Key of Solomon, The Testament of Solomon," was written long after the scriptures were written. Perhaps its contents are oral traditions handed down through the centuries before written by someone or someones in the Middle Ages who preferred not to have the authorship known, but that is speculation, at best. Although my copy of the book says it was edited by L. W. de Laurence, the authorship of its contents is an amalgam of unknown sources. The book is almost uniformly recognized a book of mysticism of the sorcerous type. De Laurence was a sort of traveling "healer" and magician who used hypnosis, but most of his income was derived from mail order sale of books on magic. The subtitle of the book cited is "The Book of Evil Spirits," further reporting to contain diagrams for invoking and convoking (bringing evil spirits forth individually or in groups), as well as diagrams for "necromancy, witchcraft, and black art." The book also claims to be the only "authorized" book of its content (although who or what authorized its contents is unstated). De Laurence claimed he was "more competent for a task of this kind than any living man," to edit the book's contents. I hesitate to post the following in the forum, but here's an example of the book's contents for all the lurkers,

"This is He, Who having made Voice by His Command is Lord of all things, is Lord of All Things; King, Ruler, and Helper. Hear Me, etc...... I Am He! The Bornless Spirit! having sight in the feet: Strong and the Immortal Fire! I am He! the Truth! .......I am He! The Grace of the World! 'The Heart Girl with a Serpent' is My Name! Come forth and make all Spirits subject to unto Me so that every Spirit of the Firmament............. and every Spell and Scourge of God, may be obedient unto Me."[/indent​

​

​

Do you think Solomon believed every spell and scourge of God could be subject to him?​

​

The book goes on to describe the diagrams, invocations, perfumes, "sacraments, and changes in the brain that are needed to produce these evil spirits, believing "the spirits of the goetia are portions of the human brain." Goetia is "lower magic," it stands in contrast to "mageia" (fake magic) and "theurgy (divine magic). Literarily, the book is a "grimoire," a book on magic or sorcery. The book claims to be able to bring up altered states of consciousness, bring forth unconscious knowledge and memories, increase business performance and make one more successful. The book references Origen, claiming his support of "natural magic," rather than that which is "diabolical," dropping the names of various notables in history who purportedly practiced magic, claiming the Solomon's lemegeton (lesser key) was found by a Jewish rabbi in Chaldea in an effort to legitimize the book's contents.​

​

This op asks a four-part question:​

The question:
Do we find any OT scriptures that would lead people to believe the Son of David (a title used for their prophesied Messiah) would have to be one with the ability to cast out demons?
What OT verses would lead them to expect this proof of the Son of David?
Do we have any prophetic OT scriptures of King David casting out a demon from a dumb and blind man or physically healing one of blindness?
Where did they get the notion that the Son of David must be one that would perform the miracle of casting out demons in a way that had never been seen before in Israel?

And I have answered the question asked.

Yes, there are OT scriptures that could be understood to lead people to believe the Son of David would have the ability to cast out demons, and Isaiah 34:14, a prophetic text of the OT, would be one of them. The "notion" is not a particularly unusual one given the prevailing worldview of the time in which pagan mythologies were pervasive, so pervasive that their mention is found in the Hebrew scriptures BUT a modern Christian typically has to examine the Hebrew to find them.

And as the conversation proceeded, I learned,

Sure. Growing up I was a literature geek, and mythology was a favorite of mine. I'm in my 70's now. But the OP was sparked from knowing about literature such as The Lesser Key of Solomon, The Testament of Solomon, and similar stories in which Solomon (son of David) had power over demons.

I, therefore, asked valid, op-relevant questions directly related to that statement.

• Why would you think an anonymously authored book on magic compiled in the 1600s would have anything authoritative to say about God's word?
• Isn't the fact the book did not provide an explanation for something easily known and understood informative regarding its legitimacy?
• Was there some other purpose bringing that into the forum besides wanting an answer to the question asked?

And I assured you the questions were NOT asked with snarky intent. I would genuinely like to know why you would give that book any credence. My reasons for reading the book may be different than those of others. What's your thinking here? And I'm still waiting for answers to those questions, being attacked while remain patient, forbearing, and hopeful. No "high horse" existing over here. Clearly the questions have triggered something on your end such that it prevents the questions asked from being answered. We could be discussing how and why books like the grimoire interest you at age 70. The answer(s) could lie in your Christadelphian perspectives or might be more personal, but no one will know unless and until you tell us.

The rancor is unnecessary. Just answer the questions asked and move the conversation forward. That would be a good thing. Yes?

• Why consider an anonymously authored book on magic compiled in the 1600s would have anything authoritative to say about God's word?
• Isn't the fact the book did not provide an explanation for something easily known and understood informative regarding its legitimacy?
• Was there some other purpose bringing that into the forum besides wanting an answer to the question asked?

.

 

[Mr GLee]

We aren't Jesus.We aren't God. We are not among the Apostles Jesus appointed. We do not have the authority that was given to the apostles in the NT era. That of laying the foundation of His church---that is the very truths on which it stands as unique from all other religions. The performance of things only God can do, validated their message. Just as they validated Christ as God and the Messiah.

Those sent to preach are apostles (sent messengers) stil sending two by two . Two the one witnes God has spoken .the law of faith .Let there be and it was good

Destroy the meaning of apostle by giving them dying mankind the power

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Catholicism as a law of the fathers (I heard it through the legion of dead fathers grape vine say it is the power is of dying mankind

The us that went out from the true us

 

[Bob Carabbio]

We aren't Jesus.We aren't God. We are not among the Apostles Jesus appointed. We do not have the authority that was given to the apostles in the NT era. That of laying the foundation of His church---that is the very truths on which it stands as unique from all other religions. The performance of things only God can do, validated their message. Just as they validated Christ as God and the Messiah.

There is no internal evidence of other believers performing these miracles.

Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

The OT scriptures made clear these signs would follow the Messiah when He came.

2 Cor 12:12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

So who in Gal 3:5 is the "one who does miracles among you" by the "Hearing of FAITH" (Rom 10:17).

We have whatever Spiritual authority required for the ministry we're called on to provide, whether it's Leading someone into salvation, or raising the dead - it's all the same power given to whomever God chooses.

The difference with Jesus was that HE had "The SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE", (John 3:34) while we have "Measured" (dispensed/metered) access. (Rom 12:3) but whether we're Jesus, or you, the POWER, and the source thereof is the same. You have NO IDEA what the Christians in the churches at the time were empowered by the Holy Spirit to do, since the only ones specifically mentioned were Apostolic characters.

 

[Arial]

So who in Gal 3:5 is the "one who does miracles among you" by the "Hearing of FAITH" (Rom 10:17).

Given that Paul spent chapters 1 and 2 defending his apostleship against those who were maligning him in order to preach a different gospel; and given Mark 16:20 and 2 Cor 12:12, that show why Jesus and the apostles were given power to perform miracles; Paul is the one who does the miracles among them. It is implicit from chapters 1 and 2 that it was not the false apostles who were Judaizers as we learn from the text itself who were performing miracles. In addition, in chapter 3, Paul has moved on from his defense of his apostleship to contrasting the Spirit who redeemed them to returning to the flesh for salvation, i.e. in this context, circumcision.

We have whatever Spiritual authority required for the ministry we're called on to provide, whether it's Leading someone into salvation, or raising the dead - it's all the same power given to whomever God chooses.

You would need to demonstrate from Scripture that any are called to a ministry of raising the dead. And also, that any have raised the dead since the Book closed. The evidence for the truth of the who Jesus is and what He has accomplished and the teachings of the foundation built on the law and prophets (teachings) of Christianity, are verified by what we are given in the scriptures. It does not need to be reverified.

The gospel raises those dead in sin and tresspasses to life in the Spirit. The bodily resurrection awaits His glorious return.

The difference with Jesus was that HE had "The SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE", (John 3:34) while we have "Measured" (dispensed/metered) access. (Rom 12:3) but whether we're Jesus, or you, the POWER, and the source thereof is the same. You have NO IDEA what the Christians in the churches at the time were empowered by the Holy Spirit to do, since the only ones specifically mentioned were Apostolic characters.

You are making an argument from silence. I will make another one. If signs and wonders and miracles were meant to be the norm for the church, would it not have been witnessed to in the Bible? What the Bible does do is tell us what those signs are FOR and who specifically that power is given to, and even tells us why it is given to them.

Your argument from silence has no witness or evidence in the church of any age as being normative. My argument has witness from the Scripture and evidence in the church in all ages.

 

[Arial]

Those sent to preach are apostles (sent messengers) stil sending two by two .

The Apostles in Scripture are designated as specific people---and had to meet specific requirement as stated in Acts when they replace Judas. They had to have been with Him during His earthly ministry, and witness His resurrection. The exception to that rule was Paul who had an encounter with the risen Christ, and was directly appointed by Him to take the gospel to the Gentiles.

No one qualifies since the death of the Apostles and the closing of the Scripture.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Given that Paul spent chapters 1 and 2 defending his apostleship against those who were maligning him in order to preach a different gospel; and given Mark 16:20 and 2 Cor 12:12, that show why Jesus and the apostles were given power to perform miracles; Paul is the one who does the miracles among them. It is implicit from chapters 1 and 2 that it was not the false apostles who were Judaizers as we learn from the text itself who were performing miracles. In addition, in chapter 3, Paul has moved on from his defense of his apostleship to contrasting the Spirit who redeemed them to returning to the flesh for salvation, i.e. in this context, circumcision.

You would need to demonstrate from Scripture that any are called to a ministry of raising the dead. And also, that any have raised the dead since the Book closed. The evidence for the truth of the who Jesus is and what He has accomplished and the teachings of the foundation built on the law and prophets (teachings) of Christianity, are verified by what we are given in the scriptures. It does not need to be reverified.

The gospel raises those dead in sin and tresspasses to life in the Spirit. The bodily resurrection awaits His glorious return.


You are making an argument from silence. I will make another one. If signs and wonders and miracles were meant to be the norm for the church, would it not have been witnessed to in the Bible? What the Bible does do is tell us what those signs are FOR and who specifically that power is given to, and even tells us why it is given to them.

Your argument from silence has no witness or evidence in the church of any age as being normative. My argument has witness from the Scripture and evidence in the church in all ages.

O.K. Cessationism it is, The miraculous has disappeared from the church. and all of our Ministers and Missionaries are liars. Oh well.

 

[Arial]

and all of our Ministers and Missionaries are liars. Oh well.

Not all of them.

 

[Tambora]

Certainly. They were not put to writing until Moses, and Moses was inspired by God to put that history into writing.

We don't know how much Moses wrote.
We do know that it would be illogical for Moses to have written about his own death and the dispute over his body since he would have been dead.
We have many anonymously written books of the Bible that we do not know who the author was.

And scripture also mentions writings that are not included in the Bible and yet the people were expected to know of them, such as:

2 Chronicles 9:29 ESV​

Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the history of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer concerning Jeroboam the son of Nebat?​

​

Numbers 21:14 ESV​

Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, “Waheb in Suphah, and the valleys of the Arnon,​

​

2 Samuel 1:18 ESV​

(18) and he said it should be taught to the people of Judah; behold, it is written in the Book of Jashar. He said:​

​

1 Chronicles 29:29-30 ESV​

Now the acts of King David, from first to last, are written in the Chronicles of Samuel the seer, and in the Chronicles of Nathan the prophet, and in the Chronicles of Gad the seer,​

with accounts of all his rule and his might and of the circumstances that came upon him and upon Israel and upon all the kingdoms of the countries.​

​

1 Kings 11:41 ESV​

Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the Book of the Acts of Solomon?​

That's just a few.
They were all mentioned as writings that the people should have already known about.

 

[Arial]

We don't know how much Moses wrote.
We do know that it would be illogical for Moses to have written about his own death and the dispute over his body since he would have been dead.
We have many anonymously written books of the Bible that we do not know who the author was.

And scripture also mentions writings that are not included in the Bible and yet the people were expected to know of them, such as:

2 Chronicles 9:29 ESV​

Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the history of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer concerning Jeroboam the son of Nebat?​

​

Numbers 21:14 ESV​

Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, “Waheb in Suphah, and the valleys of the Arnon,​

​

2 Samuel 1:18 ESV​

(18) and he said it should be taught to the people of Judah; behold, it is written in the Book of Jashar. He said:​

​

1 Chronicles 29:29-30 ESV​

Now the acts of King David, from first to last, are written in the Chronicles of Samuel the seer, and in the Chronicles of Nathan the prophet, and in the Chronicles of Gad the seer,​

with accounts of all his rule and his might and of the circumstances that came upon him and upon Israel and upon all the kingdoms of the countries.​

​

1 Kings 11:41 ESV​

Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the Book of the Acts of Solomon?​

That's just a few.
They were all mentioned as writings that the people should have already known about.

True.

Learning historical and cultural facts that aren't in the Bible, things that took place during the various time periods that are depicted in Scripture, helps us in our interpretation of the Bible. The Bible is historical, but it is not a history book. It deals with God acting in history in redemption, and ofcourse does not give all of His acts in history, as He is always acting in history.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Apostles in Scripture are designated as specific people---and had to meet specific requirement as stated in Acts when they replace Judas. They had to have been with Him during His earthly ministry, and witness His resurrection. The exception to that rule was Paul who had an encounter with the risen Christ, and was directly appointed by Him to take the gospel to the Gentiles.

No one qualifies since the death of the Apostles and the closing of the Scripture.

That would seem to be an oral tradition of dying mankind. Most certainty it is not a biblical teaching.

The word apostle must be defined as to its usage . In that way I am my wife's apostle. She sends me with a list as law not to add or subtract from. Nothing more and nothing less, We together have six apostles children that can go on a errand.

I would consider you and others on this board apostles according to the true meaning of the word. Sent messengers (UPS ,FedX
the one with the beautiful feet shod with the gospel of peace Why they used the Greek and not the English translation (sent one)makes me wonder.

Sent out giving a desire to move. . . the only qualification. .Two represents one God not seen is spoken sends them out two by two

The need to venerate thier dying flesh as a higher authority than all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) Makes dying man the carnal authority in matters of faith taking it away from (it as it is written ) the power of Christ that works in believers

1 Corinthians 6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up (Venerated) for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1 Corinthians 4: 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God (alone) gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Christians as sons of God are sent to preach. he teaches .he will not share that glory with dying mankind .no need to. He brings to our minds the previously things taught.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Puffing up dying flesh and blood above all thing written in the law and prophets is simply damnable heresy. . doing despite to the grace of Christ. giving saving faith over to dying flesh (apostles)

That kind of deception is needed by the father of lies in a hierarchy of venerable ones lording it over the faith of the non - venerable. Pagan tradition needed to develop the patron saint his and hers gods and a queen mother in heaven (3500 and rising)

Apostles Simply sent ones .Abel the first mentioned apostle .he was martyred His blood like the blood of all saints cries out.

Those that do follow after another authority other than all things written in the law and prophets.

Twelve a remnant of the apostles was put aside for another teaching a different doctrine .

If there are false apostles(oral traditons of dying mankind) today then there must also be Christ's apostles Christians today. Again like your own self .

 

[Arial]

That would seem to be an oral tradition of dying mankind. Most certainty it is not a biblical teaching.

Acts 1:21:22 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us---one of these men must become with us a witness of his resurrection.

I believe the reason so many do not see the uniqueness of the Apostles, and simply apply the literal definition of the word to whomever they say is sent (and all Christians are sent in a very real sense), is because they do not really know what the Apostles were appointed to.

 

[grace2]

I believe the reason so many do not see the uniqueness of the Apostles, and simply apply the literal definition of the word to whomever they say is sent (and all Christians are sent in a very real sense), is because they do not really know what the Apostles were appointed to.

Why do you think you need to know what the apostles were taught?

Jesus gave all instructions to everyone willing to listen.

He says He is the Teacher, remember?

 

[Mr GLee]

Acts 1:21:22 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us---one of these men must become with us a witness of his resurrection.

I believe the reason so many do not see the uniqueness of the Apostles, and simply apply the literal definition of the word to whomever they say is sent (and all Christians are sent in a very real sense), is because they do not really know what the Apostles were appointed to.

Hi thanks I would think the prophet Abel the first apostle, the second born. He used to represent the born again spiritual seed Christ and passed it on to another second born until the birth of the Son of man, Jesus. The witness of the apostles moved. . sent by God

The work of a apostle do the will of the sent one empowered to do it. The kind of spiritual food the apostles knew not of at first the food that reveals the understanding of the will of God and it empowers the believer to perform it according to his good pleasure.

Hebrews calls it the better thing that acompanies salvation .God promises he will not to forget the good works performed by the power of his name

The bible is the eye witness the one witness of God not seen. One third of human history had passed by before the eye witness moved Moses to record it as law

Looking at something is not exercising saving faith. . but is exercising what they do see the temporal natural unconverted mankind. . Who hopes for that seen ?

Twelves Apostles it would seem are set aside to help us under the mysteries of the bride of all the nations of the word .

Revaltion 21 gives witness to that in which the apostles were sent by

 

[Arial]

Why do you think you need to know what the apostles were taught?

Jesus gave all instructions to everyone willing to listen.

He says He is the Teacher, remember?

Because Jesus is the one who taught them. Some things He couldn't teach them until after His resurrection. They would have been incomprehensible before that. He did that during the forty days between His resurrection and ascension according to Scripture. And continued to do it through the Holy Spirit as they laid the foundation of His church, and established communities of believers to spread the good news to all nations.

And because Jesus is the one who sent them, so it must be important.

 

[grace2]

Because Jesus is the one who taught them. Some things He couldn't teach them until after His resurrection. They would have been incomprehensible before that. He did that during the forty days between His resurrection and ascension according to Scripture. And continued to do it through the Holy Spirit as they laid the foundation of His church, and established communities of believers to spread the good news to all nations.

And because Jesus is the one who sent them, so it must be important.

So ignore what Jesus says?

He says not to let anyone call you a teacher.

You have been showing consistency in disregarding what He says.

Your faith is not Jesus-centered.

 

[Arial]

So ignore what Jesus says?

He says not to let anyone call you a teacher.

You have been showing consistency in disregarding what He says.

Your faith is not Jesus-centered.

Do not change the topic of the OP please.

 

[grace2]

Do not change the topic of the OP please.

I am just following what you have said.

It does not harmonize with your claims.