Ephesians 2:8 challenge

[Arial]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.

For by the pure loving mercy of God you have been delivered from the wrath of God by trusting in Christ's substitution. And this trust is not from yourself; it is given to you by God as a gift.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

"Belief" doesn't equal FAITH Since it has none of the attributes found in Heb 11:1.

 

[Soyeong]

Interesting. It's not really close to how I read it at all, but it seems you are able to articulate it in your own words. Thanks for sharing!

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we earn do not earn our salvation as the result of obeying it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. So while Paul directly denied in Ephesians 2:8-10 that we can earn our salvation as the result of our good works lest anyone should boast, he was not denying that doing good works is intrinsically part of the concept of being saved from not doing good works, which is evident by the fact that being made new creations in Christ to do good works is still part of our salvation from not doing good works. So I paraphrased Ephesians 2:8 in a way that clarifies Paul's point in order to avoid a common misunderstanding of the verse. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting God's law before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[EarlyActs]

Ephesians 2 is the only place where Paul uses the Greek word σεσῳσμένοι (perfect-tense of σῴζω).

This word is used in 8 other places in the New Testament. The other 8 are all in the gospels, and every one of them refers to someone being healed of a physical illness.

Or, maybe you're referring to a different word and I've misunderstood?


It seems that you read Ephesians 2 as being about justification? I don't see justification in this chapter. Like, the word literally isn't there.

I read it as being about regeneration. I guess that word isn't here either, but we do have the word συνεζωοποίησεν - to bring to life.

'Substantial psychological healing' is a good turn of phrase to put it in modern terms, rather than archaic ones.

As I read it, Eph 2 opens with the Ephesians being declared dead (metaphorically), and then Paul says that Christ has made them alive (also metaphorical), and then he refers to this in verse 8. It could be called a healing, or resurrection, or regeneration.

v.1 And you [Ephesians], who were dead in trespasses and sins...
v.5 ...[God] made us alive together with Christ...
v.8 ...you have been [saved? healed? resurrected? regenerated?] through faith

-Jarrod

Pretty sure sozo is in Rom 11 about all Israel being saved, which is (with the Jer 31 quote) consistent in being about the taking away of the debt of sin, and thus about the Redeemer Christ coming to Zion as a sacrifice, not something future.

Yes, Eph does not use the term, but that makes it more curious. The reason I mentioned the 4 letters together was to show that Ephesians doesn't mention the term right where we would expect it, yet knowing Paul, it is what he meant. Or a person could just cross-check any time he said that salvation was by grace and it would have to do with the debt of sin (In Rom, Gal, Phil, Tit 3, 2 Cor 5).

So I still don't see the medical sense of sozo as you are putting it, if we are talking about the usual NT church situation (as opposed to the ministry of Christ).

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.

For by the pure loving mercy of God you have been delivered from the wrath of God by trusting in Christ's substitution. And this trust is not from yourself; it is given to you by God as a gift.

I think you might have inserted some ideas from other chapters in there... but it definitely gets across your understanding of the verse. <3

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"Belief" doesn't equal FAITH Since it has none of the attributes found in Heb 11:1.

They're the same word in Greek.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Pretty sure sozo is in Rom 11 about all Israel being saved, which is (with the Jer 31 quote) consistent in being about the taking away of the debt of sin, and thus about the Redeemer Christ coming to Zion as a sacrifice, not something future.

Yes, Eph does not use the term, but that makes it more curious. The reason I mentioned the 4 letters together was to show that Ephesians doesn't mention the term right where we would expect it, yet knowing Paul, it is what he meant. Or a person could just cross-check any time he said that salvation was by grace and it would have to do with the debt of sin (In Rom, Gal, Phil, Tit 3, 2 Cor 5).

So I still don't see the medical sense of sozo as you are putting it, if we are talking about the usual NT church situation (as opposed to the ministry of Christ).

I don't know your acumen with Greek, so forgive me if you already know this.

The perfect-tense of σῴζω is a different word from the other tenses. This is true for many (most?) Greek verbs.

The perfect-tense form indicates a state-of-being resulting from a completed action. For σῴζω (save), it indicates a state of safety or health, resulting from the work of whoever did the saving.

-Jarrod

 

[Bob Carabbio]

They're the same word in Greek.

SO what "Substance" does "Intellectual assent" (belief) have, and we all know that "Belief" is evidence of NOTHING AT ALL.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

SO what "Substance" does "Intellectual assent" (belief) have, and we all know that "Belief" is evidence of NOTHING AT ALL.

The "belief" in the Bible isn't intellectual assent, and you're off-topic.

 

[sawdust]

If I were to paraphrase Ephesians 2:8 using everyday words, it would look like this:

For no reason other than God's favor, y'all are healed through belief. This healing doesn't come from yourself. The gift is from God.

Your turn! Paraphrase the verse in your own words. Don't use any of these jargon words: grace, save, salvation, faith, or regeneration. Can you do it?

-Jarrod

"For by the power of God have you been brought into the fullness of life through the working of the word in you and this is not something of your own doing but is a free gift from God."

 

[Arial]

I think you might have inserted some ideas from other chapters in there... but it definitely gets across your understanding of the verse. <3

Well, last I checked that is how we come to understand any given scripture, by aligning it with what the Bible is telling us throughout on the matter. And a paraphrase is presenting the idea that is in the scripture in one's own words without changing the truth that is in it.

In your paraphrase you simply added a y'all and selected one usage of the word "saved" that one would find in a concordance, that of healing, attached that (according to what you later said) to physical healing, completely changing the meaning of Eph 2:8. It completely ignored Eph 2:1-7, all the following passages; well in fact almost the entire teaching of salvation and grace in the Bible. Those words you refer to as jargon words but are the very backbone, substance, foundation, center of Christianity.

 

[atpollard]

The "belief" in the Bible isn't intellectual assent, and you're off-topic.

I think he had Hebrews 11:1 and James 2:9 in mind. Do the demons have "faith/belief"?

• [Hebrews 11:1 NKJV] Now faith (pistis) is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
• [James 2:19 NASB20] You believe (pisteuō) that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe (pisteuō), and shudder.

G4102 vs G4100

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Well, last I checked that is how we come to understand any given scripture, by aligning it with what the Bible is telling us throughout on the matter. And a paraphrase is presenting the idea that is in the scripture in one's own words without changing the truth that is in it.

I thought you did a fine job of giving your understanding in plain words.

In your paraphrase you simply added a y'all and selected one usage of the word "saved" that one would find in a concordance, that of healing, attached that (according to what you later said) to physical healing, completely changing the meaning of Eph 2:8. It completely ignored Eph 2:1-7, all the following passages; well in fact almost the entire teaching of salvation and grace in the Bible.

I don't think that's a fair critique. I've quoted and referred back to verses 1 and 5 multiple times. That is where the idea of healing comes from for me - it's linked to the death and resurrection from those verses.

Those words you refer to as jargon words but are the very backbone, substance, foundation, center of Christianity.

I hope not. If Christianity can't communicate to anyone outside of its own group, then the gospel is not going out.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I think he had James 2:9 in mind. Do the demons have "faith/belief"
You believe (pisteuō) that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe (pisteuō), and shudder.

You've found an outlier in how James uses the word in this verse.

Throughout most of the Bible, faith is not placed in some certain teaching, but in the Person of Jesus Christ. That isn't intellectual assent, but rather a reliance upon someone else; a readiness to take up their cause and act in their behalf.

I think in context, that may actually be James' point in chapter 2... intellectual assent is not enough.

-Jarrod

 

[atpollard]

You've found an outlier in how James uses the word in this verse.

Throughout most of the Bible, faith is not placed in some certain teaching, but in the Person of Jesus Christ. That isn't intellectual assent, but rather a reliance upon someone else; a readiness to take up their cause and act in their behalf.

I think in context, that may actually be James' point in chapter 2... intellectual assent is not enough.

-Jarrod

Jesus' brother was always causing trouble.

• First trying to drag Jesus away in the Gospels.
• Then that incident with the Judaizers.
• Finally all the trouble his letter has caused over the centuries.

Why couldn't he be more like Jude?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The "belief" in the Bible isn't intellectual assent, and you're off-topic.

Agreed. The choice of the word is unfortunate, since it leads to a fatal conclusion - that because "belief" in present usage has no "Substance", and is "Evidence" of nothing.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Why couldn't he be more like Jude?

Jude? Don't you think it was, "why can't you be more like Jesus?"

Imagine having a brother who is literally perfect.

 

[atpollard]

Jude? Don't you think it was, "why can't you be more like Jesus?"

Imagine having a brother who is literally perfect.

Joseph and his 11 brothers paints a pretty clear picture of THAT family dynamic.

[I don't think it is until AFTER we see the COST of being "Blessed and Highly Favored", that it is possible to overcome the human flaw of ENVY.]

 

[Eleanor]

Our salvation is from sin

Salvation is from the wrath of God's judgment (Ro 5:9) on sin, which is condemnation for all mankind (Ro 5:18), through faith in the person and atonement of Jesus Christ for the payment and removal of that judgment on one's sin.

 

[Soyeong]

Salvation is from the wrath of God's judgment (Ro 5:9) on sin, which is condemnation for all mankind (Ro 5:18), through faith in the person and atonement of Jesus Christ for the payment and removal of that judgment on one's sin.

Our salvation from sin includes being saved from the penalty for our sin (Ephesians 2:5), being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and being saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10). In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so again it is referring to salvation from the penalty of our sin and from continuing to live in sin, and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to have faith in the person and atonement of Jesus Christ. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from God's wrath while we continued to live in sin, but rather our salvation is also about being made to be like Christ.