Do we choose to be born again?

[TonyChanYT]

Well, not exactly. God plays his part, John 1:

13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 15:

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

1 Peter 1:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

John 6:

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

For our part, we need to repent.

 

[Arial]

For our part, we need to repent.

Is repentance required before we are born again?

 

[CrowCross]

Is repentance required before we are born again?

TonyChanYT​

From the link the definition seems to be an action after one is born again..."I am talking about the initial repentance when you first become a Christian."..... Repentance should be happening everyday until we are fully sanctified.

On the other hand I see two repentances....as one mentioned above the repentance that continues after salvation and the original repentance when you repent from your own means of salvation to Gods means of salvation. But it gets complicated and blurry as I believe several things happen in the same instance. There really isn't a clear Ordo Salutis....though we tend to speak as if there is one.
I see regeneration, repentance, faith, forgiveness....all happening at the same time when God saves us.
For some it may feel like there is an order and maybe we can "logically" think of it as such then argue about it.

I also believe God saves in many ways. I believe He often pre-loads us with the Gospel...a little here, a little there...one man plants and then another waters...then when God regenerates us as we believe it may feel like we choose or accept Jesus when in reality we now understand so to speak as our hearts are opened and we are born again.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Well, not exactly. God plays his part, John 1:


John 15:


1 Peter 1:


John 6:


For our part, we need to repent.

BINGO!!! commonly, "Conviction of SIN" is the "drawing force" - AND the Source of FAITH (God's WORD TO YOU). However the FINAL DECISION to Repent and Call on God for salvation is yours. YOU CAN refuse, and the Conviction will fade (guess how I know that).

 

[TonyChanYT]

Is repentance required before we are born again?

My standard answer is Co-Reality. They are co-dependent on each other.

 

[Arial]

There really isn't a clear Ordo Salutis....though we tend to speak as if there is one.
I see regeneration, repentance, faith, forgiveness....all happening at the same time when God saves us.
For some it may feel like there is an order and maybe we can "logically" think of it as such then argue about it.

I don't think they all happen at the same time as a necessity. We are individually made by God and treated as individuals. But repentance, faith, and forgiveness cannot happen unless regeneration has happened. Faith produces repentance, and it also produces justification, and is given by God at the proper time and in the proper way.

Interestingly enough, some may have a great deal of knowledge of Christian beliefs from being around it, didn't believe it and then did. Some may have next to none, and yet a leaning towards Him where before there was only resistance or no thought of Him at all. Is that regeneration and faith, even though the object of faith, Jesus and Him crucified, is not yet seen, and God leads them to this knowledge? I do not know, but I suspect it may be the case.

I also believe God saves in many ways. I believe He often pre-loads us with the Gospel...a little here, a little there...one man plants and then another waters...then when God regenerates us as we believe it may feel like we choose or accept Jesus when in reality we now understand so to speak as our hearts are opened and we are born again.

I agree, and see this as preparing the soil. In a very real sense, I believe that since God foreknew those He was giving to Christ, and predestined them to be called, and justified, and glorified, and conformed to the image of Christ, that in every aspect of our life from the first birth to the second, He is leading us there in the most perfect of ways. From who our parents are, the state or country we are born in, the family situation, our sins----in all the circumstances of our life before conversion, He is leading us steadily and perfectly to Christ. Just as after conversion He leads us steadily and faithfully to the Promised Land---our true home, His kingdom.

 

[Arial]

My standard answer is Co-Reality. They are co-dependent on each other.

I see it as repentance dependant entirely on regeneration. Repentance is the natural fruit of regeneration.

 

[prism]

For our part, we need to repent.

How can we be drawn (Jn 6:44), without all the while repenting?

 

[CrowCross]

How can we be drawn (Jn 6:44), without all the while repenting?

What does drawn mean?

How is the word used in other scripture?

 

[prism]

What does drawn mean?

How is the word used in other scripture?

ἕλκύω helkúō and ἕλκω hélkō; fut. helkúsō, aor. heílkusa. To draw toward without necessarily the notion of force as in súrō (G4951). See Acts 8:3; 14:19; 17:6; Rev. 12:4. To drag, although it may be just implied (Acts 16:19, of persons, to drag, force before magistrates; 21:30, "out of the temple"; James 2:6). Helkúō is used by Jesus of the drawing of souls unto Him (John 6:44; 12:32, to draw or induce to come). It is the drawing to a certain point as in John 21:6, 11 indicating the drawing of the net while súrō (John 21:8) is merely dragging. To draw a sword (John 18:10). See Sept.

But in context…
John 6:43-45 ESV
Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. [44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. [45] It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me-

So again, I ask, “How can we be drawn without all the while repenting?”

 

[Mr GLee]

Well, not exactly. God plays his part, John 1:


John 15:


1 Peter 1:


John 6:


For our part, we need to repent

I would offer. He must the first works "Let there be." . . as a labor of His love as shown in Philippians 2 to both reveal his will and empower dying mankind to do it to his good pleasure (not of there own dying self.)

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The gospel key both.

Christ in us turning us giving us ear to hear his understanding of faith (to will) enabling us to see our invisible head (to do)

Repentance the one work of two turnings both to wiill and to do to his good pleasure

Jerimiah the commentary of the doctrine of repentance .

Jeremiah 31:17-19 King James Version17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border. I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[Josheb]

Do we choose to be born again?

No.

It may seem that way to the one being born anew from above at the time of his new birth, but that perception is incorrect; it is part of the problem from which the person is being saved.

Well, not exactly.

Yes, exactly. No, we do not choose to be born again.

God plays his part...

And His part is the only part. In the birth metaphor there is no offspring doing and choosing to be born. The matter is decided by the mother and father without the consent of the then non-existent offspring. The progeny is oblivious.

For our part, we need to repent.

Hmmm....

Why would anyone quote a verse that does not mention the word "repent" in support of repentance? Why would any Christian use reddit as an authoritative source? Why would any poster in a Christian discussion board think any of those three useful, acceptable, valid, or veracious?





That being said, I am pleased to read you've responded to at least one person. I and others have engaged @TonyChanYT's posts in other forums and don't typically read responses. Can you tell us what is "Co-Reality," and where might we find that in the Bible?

 

[TonyChanYT]

How can we be drawn (Jn 6:44), without all the while repenting?

Right. I see them as co-dependent. See https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/co-reality-hypothesis.1720/

 

[TonyChanYT]

Why would anyone quote a verse that does not mention the word "repent" in support of repentance?

Click the link.

 

[Josheb]

Click the link.

Done. You do realize nothing in that op prove "Co-Reality" is biblical, yes? The entire argument in that op is inferential and built on unjustified (sometimes unstated) assumptions and filled with eisegetic question begging. I'll take up the matter in that thread, but thanks for the link.


Now what about Post 12?

 

[prism]

Right. I see them as co-dependent. See https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/co-reality-hypothesis.1720/

I'm still looking for Scriptural support, otherwise it's source is finite.

 

[Arial]

Right. I see them as co-dependent. See https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/co-reality-hypothesis.1720/

I read the link. That is not co-dependence or co-reality. It is perspective and the only correct perspective is God's. Man's perspective is limited---finite, and he is a creature. His "boundaries" are his only frame of reference. God is not a creature, He is self existent, eternal, and infinite. He is the Creator of all.

 

[Josheb]

I'm still looking for Scriptural support, otherwise it's source is finite.[.....]

and NOT scripture-based .

 

[TonyChanYT]

Done. You do realize nothing in that op prove "Co-Reality" is biblical, yes?

I rarely try to prove anything.

Now what about Post 12?

Can you be more precise? I prefer to deal with one specific issue at a time.

 

[David1701]

BINGO!!! commonly, "Conviction of SIN" is the "drawing force" - AND the Source of FAITH (God's WORD TO YOU). However the FINAL DECISION to Repent and Call on God for salvation is yours. YOU CAN refuse, and the Conviction will fade (guess how I know that).

Conviction of sin, on its own, draws no-one to Jesus.

When one hears the gospel, and, by the Holy Spirit, is given a new heart/spirit - that is when he is drawn to Jesus.