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Did Jesus teach TULIP?

You never have.

Highly unlikely.

YOu are the one that said show me a scripture that says I am saved.

Stick with talking to @grace2 . YOu both post the same way. Never any discussion of anything.
I did not say this

My points are that scripture says we must abide in Christ Jn 15:4 and endure to the end to be saved Matt 24:13 and not by faith alone 1 cor 13:2 Phil 1:29
And grace vivifies our works to be meritorious and salutary
Matt Ch 25
Jn 15:5
Phil 4:13
Jn 5:29

Sorry is you were confusing me with someone else
 
You are, AGAIN, using verses written by the already-saved, to the already-saved, about the already-saved. You are, AGAIN, continuing to abuse scripture to make it say things it does not actually state. You are, AGAIN, continuing to practice this mistaken abuse after and despite the error being pointed out to you. The error(s) were pointed out to you so 1) you'd improve your exegesis, 2) your understanding of scripture would improve, 3) your half of the discussion(s) would improve.... so what the repeated malfeasance means is you do not want to improve any of those things.

Deliberate, knowingly willful, abuse of God's word, knowingly obstructing cogent discourse.

That makes you a troll.

This abuse of scripture is VERY important because the entire Bible says very little about non-believers. Very little is said about atheists. Those who deny God's existence are called fools. The overwhelming portion of the Bible, especially after Noah's flood, is to and about people living in a monergistic, God initiated covenant relationship. Very little in the epistolary is written about non-believers and a very small portion of that very small portion is written about how they go from being non-believing atheists to salvifically believing bondservants.

You have yet to quote a single one of those verses!



There is a very simply, very easy technique ANYONE can use to help with this: Just ask yourself, "To whom is the "we," "you," or the "us" of this sentence referring?" Are they saints or non-saints? When you do this with all your posts here in this thread you will realize EVERYTHING you've posted so far is a straw man, a gross misrepresentation of God's word! Six pages of posts leading up to Post 119, and not a single cogent contribution to this thread, not a single op-relevant contribution, not a single accurate presentation of scripture. Everyone's time and effort (including yours) has been wasted because all your posts are straw men! Please, please, stop. Take one second and ask yourself, "Is the "we," "you," or the "us" a saint or not?" and then post according to the correct answer to that question! The entire conversation will change when you do the correct exegesis.

This is also very important when reading extra-biblical sources. It does not matter whether they are Protestant or Catholic (or Orthodox). It does not matter whether the source is monergist or synergist. Watch for how well they correctly identify the scripture's audience affiliations. That one single tool will reveal who and how many "theologians" are abusing God's word. It happens a lot. Even by Catholics. As a Catholic, you'll have to discern and decide which RC theologians to continue reading (and perhaps whether to read any of them). I'd venture to say all the Prot contributors currently in this thread have already gone through this. It's how I know to look for what you've done, tell you about it, and expect better from you.

Stop taking verses written to saints and about saints and trying to make them apply to those who are not saints, those who are not changed by ANY of the things that occur in salvation. The non-believer is never a member of the elect. The non-believer never experiences atonement. S/he never experiences God's saving grace, never experiencing God accomplishing salvation in their life. They do not persevere in a salvation they do not possess.

Stop applying verses written about the already-saved to the never saved.
Where does it say you are saved?

A short catechism!

Jn 3:16 ((believe in Christ))
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 1 cor 16:13 gal 3:27 ((union with Christ by faith & baptism))
Jn 15:4 ((we must abide in Christ))
1 cor 13:2 (( charity & not by faith alone))
Phil 1:29 ((suffering not by faith alone))
Matt 25 Jn 15:5 phil 4:13 ((grace vivifies our works to be meritorious and salutary))
Matt 24:13 ((endure to the end to be saved))
Jn 5:29 ((good unto life & evil unto death))
Romans 8:17 2 Tim 2:12 ((glorified with Christ if we suffer with Him))
Rom 2:6 Rev 2: 19 ((reward for good works done in Christ & grace))
 
Better

A short catechism!

Jn 3:16 ((believe in Christ))
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 1 cor 16:13 gal 3:27 ((union with Christ by faith & baptism))
Jn 15:4 ((we must abide in Christ))
1 cor 13:2 (( charity & not by faith alone))
Phil 1:29 ((suffering not by faith alone))
Matt 25 Jn 15:5 phil 4:13 ((grace vivifies our works to be meritorious and salutary))
Matt 24:13 ((endure to the end to be saved))
Jn 5:29 ((good unto life & evil unto death))
Romans 8:17 2 Tim 2:12 ((glorified with Christ if we suffer with Him))
Rom 2:6 Rev 2: 19 ((reward for good works done in Christ & grace))
 
I will make one notation here regarding this statement. @donadams will not recognize who is a saint and who is not, by any other than the Catholic dogma. Which says only the Catholic hierarchy can determine who is a saint and who is not, and that by testing, mainly as to miracles witnessed or performed..........
My mistake. Absent any commentary on his part, you are, of course, absolutely correct, and I will adjust my posts accordingly ;).
 
Unsaved Christians?
No. Go to the beginning of his epistle and note to whom he states he was writing. Then adjust ALL your posts and your use of epistolary scripture accordingly.
 
Did Jesus teach TULIP?
Did Jesus teach TULIP?
(T- total depravity)

D 48. God has created a good world.

D 58. Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace.

D 61. Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God.

Heb 4:15 Christ was sinless
D 89. Christ was free from all sin, from original sin as well as from all personal sin.

D 103. Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin.
(U- unconditional election)

D 176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.

D 125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.

D 126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.

D 127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.

D 128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.

D 129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance of Heaven.

D 130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused withSanctifying grace.

D 133. Grace can be increased by good works.

D 118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works

D 157. Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

(L- limited atonement)

Jn 3:16 the whole world

Jn 1:29 the whole world

2 cor 5:19 reconciled the world

1 Jn 2:2 propitiation of the whole world

D 96. Christ did not die for the predestined only.
(I- irresistible grace)
D 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not

irresistible.
(P- perseverance of the saints)

Perseverance requires God’s grace / help requiring prayer

Matt 7:7 Matt 26:41
D 113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.

D 114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins, without the special privilege of the grace of God.



(Conditional perseverance)

Matt 16:24
Jn 15:4
Rom 8:13-17
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
Heb 3:4-6

D for dogma
No not entirely
Some but not all
Hope this helps
 
Now.

Did Jesus teach TULIP? If not, explain.
But I did not say show me a scripture that says your saved

I provided verses that say we endure to the end to be saved
 
But I did not say show me a scripture that says your saved

I provided verses that say we endure to the end to be saved
You need to study Jesus' word, friend.

Not just a few verses of His quotes.

What does Jesus say that the most important commandment?

How can you endure if you skip the most important amendment?
 
Where does it say you are saved?

A short catechism!

Jn 3:16 ((believe in Christ))
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 1 cor 16:13 gal 3:27 ((union with Christ by faith & baptism))
Jn 15:4 ((we must abide in Christ))
1 cor 13:2 (( charity & not by faith alone))
Phil 1:29 ((suffering not by faith alone))
Matt 25 Jn 15:5 phil 4:13 ((grace vivifies our works to be meritorious and salutary))
Matt 24:13 ((endure to the end to be saved))
Jn 5:29 ((good unto life & evil unto death))
Romans 8:17 2 Tim 2:12 ((glorified with Christ if we suffer with Him))
Rom 2:6 Rev 2: 19 ((reward for good works done in Christ & grace))

The whole world is reckoned of having no faith (power) Not little, zero

The labor of Christ's love is a work of Christ's faith.

His faith is never alone. it always accompanied by . "Let it be" and "it was very good " .

The work of faith

In that way he gives us little and calls us of "you with little faith" (power) Just enough to please him, when he does work to both reveal his will and empower dying mankind to do it to His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13)

No faith as a work coming from us dying mankind .Dead faith no works

When lovingly commanding the disciple they knew they were powerless and prompted by the Holy Spirit asked the invisible head (our Holy Father) to increase the power that worked in the disciples

The kind of powerful creative faith says. . Sycamine tree, "Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea and it was God good. ;

Luke 17:4-6King James Version And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it was good.
 
(T- total depravity)

D 48. God has created a good world.

D 58. Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace.

D 61. Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God.

Heb 4:15 Christ was sinless
D 89. Christ was free from all sin, from original sin as well as from all personal sin.

D 103. Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin.
(U- unconditional election)

D 176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.

D 125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.

D 126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.

D 127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.

D 128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.

D 129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance of Heaven.

D 130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused withSanctifying grace.

D 133. Grace can be increased by good works.

D 118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works

D 157. Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

(L- limited atonement)

Jn 3:16 the whole world

Jn 1:29 the whole world

2 cor 5:19 reconciled the world

1 Jn 2:2 propitiation of the whole world

D 96. Christ did not die for the predestined only.
(I- irresistible grace)
D 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not

irresistible.
(P- perseverance of the saints)

Perseverance requires God’s grace / help requiring prayer

Matt 7:7 Matt 26:41
D 113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.

D 114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins, without the special privilege of the grace of God.



(Conditional perseverance)

Matt 16:24
Jn 15:4
Rom 8:13-17
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
Heb 3:4-6

D for dogma
No not entirely
Some but not all
Hope this helps
None of which has anything to do with TD.
 
But I did not say show me a scripture that says your saved

I provided verses that say we endure to the end to be saved

The end of Limbo /purgatory?

When is that?
 
(T- total depravity)

D 48. God has created a good world.

D 58. Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace.

D 61. Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God.
Total depravity is not dealing with the world God created specifically, but with the condition of all mankind. The total effect it had on all Adam's progeny. It is not dealing with sanctifying grace, but the radical and total effect the fall had on us in separating us from God. I suspect your religion teaches total depravity in the sense that the depravity affects every part of us. It differs in the rest of the doctrines of grace in TULIP. Since that is probably the case concerning the T, you should be able to answer the question in your own words, what the T means, and whether or not Jesus taught it and the ULIP.
Heb 4:15 Christ was sinless
D 89. Christ was free from all sin, from original sin as well as from all personal sin.
This is true, but it has nothing to do with TULIP or total depravity.
D 103. Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin.
(U- unconditional election)
The TULIP has nothing to do with Mary, and certainly not with unconditional election. And you attributed to Mary a condition upon which she was elected, and called it unconditional. The rest of what you categorize as unconditional election, either as an agreement or a refutation, I cannot tell and you do not say, are quotes from Catholic dogma. None of which has a thing to do with unconditional election, and do not answer the question of whether Jesus taught it. That would require a presentation of what Jesus taught, not a Catholic interpretation. And as this is not a Catholic thread, their interpretations should no be considered actually answering any question. You should be able to do that yourself, without reference to them---even if you come up with the same conclusion. Can you do that?
(L- limited atonement)

Jn 3:16 the whole world

Jn 1:29 the whole world

2 cor 5:19 reconciled the world

1 Jn 2:2 propitiation of the whole world

D 96. Christ did not die for the predestined only.
So---the whole world in those passages means every person without exception? Then you use another Catholic quote (D 96) that skips 500 steps before offering its conclusion and changes the conversation from the meaning of limited atonement and whether or not Jesus taught it, to something else entirely. The predestination issue belongs in the discussion of unconditional election. And when you were in the "U", you never bothered with that but started discussing Mary.
D 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not

irresistible.
That is Catholic dogma and it is also a contradiction within itself. If the grace of God is efficacious it cannot be, because it will not be, resisted.
(P- perseverance of the saints)

Perseverance requires God’s grace / help requiring prayer

Matt 7:7 Matt 26:41
D 113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.

D 114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins, without the special privilege of the grace of God.
Can you say that in your own words, finding its verification in the words of Scripture, and without the influence of Catholic dogma telling you what something means? I already know that they teach they are the only ones who can distribute this "special help of God", which turns the special help of God into the special help of men and traditions of men. Do you see how it is impossible in and of yourself for you to think outside of what has been indoctrinated into you? And as I said, this is not a Catholic thread, so Catholic dogma will never be a valid point of reference in address the OP question.

Did Jesus teach perseverance of the saints? (Here I must pause to give that word "saints" its biblical definition and not the Catholic one.) "Saints" in the Bible, and especially in the epistles, means believers. Those who believe the person and work of Christ and have put their faith and trust in Him---for everything necessary for salvation. The apostles in their letters frequently call those they are writing to "saints."

The question is quite easy to answer, and though there are many such examples in Jesus' teaching, this one, all by itself, will seal the deal. John 6:35-40.

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to e shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

All who are in Christ through faith, have been placed there by God (given to Him), and they will persevere because God Himself preserves them. He does not need our help to do this. He does not need baptisms, or transubstantiation, or penance paid, or earthly priests, or religion, or anything else, to do this. We live and move and have our being in Him. He leads us in paths of righteousness, directs our footsteps, makes our paths straight before us. He Himself, teaches us righteousness form His word and writes it upon our hearts.

The answer to the OP question, did Jesus teach TULIP is yes. He teaches the entire thing in that one passage quoted in John 6. And of course, that is not the only place.

See how easy that was?
 
Total depravity is not dealing with the world God created specifically, but with the condition of all mankind. The total effect it had on all Adam's progeny....
The post-disobedient condition of mankind (and it was an RC theologian, Augustine, that formalized the position we now call TD not a Reformer.
This is true, but it has nothing to do with TULIP or total depravity.
He knows that ;).
None of which has anything to do with TD.
(crickets chirping)


Just saying
 
Conditional perseverance:

((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))

Mk 13:13
Matt 7:14
Matt 16:24
Matt 24:13
Jn 2:24-25
Jn 8:9
Jn 15:4
Jn 15:5
Jn 15:4
Jn 15:10
Rom 1:5
Rom 8:13-17
Rom 11:22
1 cor 7:24
1 cor 13:7
2 thes 1:4
Gal 5:2-4
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
1 Jn 2:24-28
1 Jn 3:6
Heb 3:4-6
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 12:7
Heb 12:22-25
James 1:12

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But since your save you don’t really have to.

(((The “Your Saved” gospel is another gospel and not the true gospel revealed by Christ and taught by His church))) Matt 28:19

Gal 1:6
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Tim 4:3

Now say wall-o-text etc. or whatever keeps you in unbelief
 
(((The “Your Saved” gospel is another gospel and not the true gospel revealed by Christ and taught by His church))) Matt 28:19

Gal 1:6
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Tim 4:3

Now say wall-o-text etc. or whatever keeps you in unbelief
You did a good job rebutting a false gospel.

Now you still remain in your unbelief of Jesus' word of Jesus' Father is God.
 
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