Did Christ actually suffer eternal torment on our behalf?

[ChristB4us]

Yes it was false. They also said he got his power from demons-they were liars. They hated him. hate filled hearts do not speak truth.

You are condemning scripture in Isaiah that was prophesying about Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Was Paul lying as well about Jesus thinking not robbery for being equal with God?

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
How is it that the name of His Son is higher than any other name as if above His own unless the Father & the Son are One?
How can God claim He will not share His glory with another as there is none beside Him if Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father?

Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

May the Lord bless you in Jesus's name in the knowledge of Him so that you may bear more fruit and that your joy may be full.

 

[Eleanor]

The bible says it made them a living soul. Gen 2:7)

Yes, as I stated in post #203, the OT often uses soul for the human person.

 

[Keiw1]

If your Jesus isn't God.....I would think you have no salvation.

It takes obeying Jesus to get salvation.

 

[Keiw1]

You are condemning scripture in Isaiah that was prophesying about Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Was Paul lying as well about Jesus thinking not robbery for being equal with God?

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
How is it that the name of His Son is higher than any other name as if above His own unless the Father & the Son are One?
How can God claim He will not share His glory with another as there is none beside Him if Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father?

Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

May the Lord bless you in Jesus's name in the knowledge of Him so that you may bear more fruit and that your joy may be full.

It says-His NAME will be called those things. God gave him that name.
Your Phil 2:5 is error. Many translations do not say that.

 

[CrowCross]

It takes obeying Jesus to get salvation.

How much obedience? 100%? 90%?....23%....How much Mr. Expert?

 

[CrowCross]

It says-His NAME will be called those things. God gave him that name.
Your Phil 2:5 is error. Many translations do not say that.

ChristB4us...do you see what's happening?

Everytime Keiw1 disagrees....it's a translational error.

He tried it earlier in the following post responding to....the Word was God in John 1;1.

Yes and bible scholars say--At John 1:1-and 2 Cor 4:4= the only 2 spots-Ton Theon and Theon are used together in a paragraph in the NT= Ton Theon= God, Theon = god--The word got Theon. That simple error of a capitol G God to the word has mislead billions into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily. By satans will.

Everytime Jesus is called God....IT'S A TRANSLATIONAL ERROR!!!

 

[ChristB4us]

It takes obeying Jesus to get salvation.

And how are we to obey Jesus and the gospel in order to be saved? By believing in Him & the gospel.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Keiw1]

How much obedience? 100%? 90%?....23%....How much Mr. Expert?

Jesus already answered. Why do you need to ask?= Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God.

 

[Keiw1]

ChristB4us...do you see what's happening?

Everytime Keiw1 disagrees....it's a translational error.

He tried it earlier in the following post responding to....the Word was God in John 1;1.

Everytime Jesus is called God....IT'S A TRANSLATIONAL ERROR!!!

Every one who knows God, knows 100% his name was removed in most translations in over 7000 places by satans will to mislead. But then they fail to realize he had errors translated in as well by the great apostasy( 2 Thess 2:3) = the religion that came out of Rome. Every Greek lexicon came from her translating.

 

[Keiw1]

And how are we to obey Jesus and the gospel in order to be saved? By believing in Him & the gospel.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus said--Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God= there are 1540 pages of utterances. Those who love God and his son-study those utterances. After all how much value does eternal life have?
Believing is a partial truth, and it must be the real Jesus-Jesus teaches-Matt 7:22-23-- These believe, but will hear these words as final judgement--Get away from me, you who work iniquity( practice a sin) i must confess, i never even knew you.
That is why its important to study and learn EVERY utterance.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus already answered. Why do you need to ask?= Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God.

So, you avoided the question....or does your answer reflect 100% obedience is required to obtain salvation?

Perhaps you can give us a straight answer this time.

 

[CrowCross]

Every one who knows God, knows 100% his name was removed in most translations in over 7000 places by satans will to mislead. But then they fail to realize he had errors translated in as well by the great apostasy( 2 Thess 2:3) = the religion that came out of Rome. Every Greek lexicon came from her translating.

You prove my point.....everything that shows Jesus was God....is an error.

It must be nice to be able to post everything that doesn't line up with your false theology....was an error.

 

[Keiw1]

So, you avoided the question....or does your answer reflect 100% obedience is required to obtain salvation?

Perhaps you can give us a straight answer this time.

2Peter 3:14--Hence, beloved ones since you are awaiting these things' do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.- 1Tim 6:14-That you observe the commandments in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matt 7:21-Jesus assures-Only those living now to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom( get grace, be saved, get salvation) and Jesus summed that will up-Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God.

 

[Keiw1]

You prove my point.....everything that shows Jesus was God....is an error.

It must be nice to be able to post everything that doesn't line up with your false theology....was an error.

I believe Jesus-John 17:3--The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD--We all must choose who we believe. The errors contradict Jesus. Gods truth has no contradictions.

 

[Runningman]

I believe Jesus-John 17:3--The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD--We all must choose who we believe. The errors contradict Jesus. Gods truth has no contradictions.

John 13
16Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

 

[Eleanor]

John 13
16Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

Yes, the I AM (Jn 8:58),
"being in very nature God (Jn 1:1),
did not consider equality with God something to be clung to,
but emptied himself (made himself nothing, gave up his glory; descended to earth--Eph 4:9),
taking on the form of a servant (e.g., Jn 13:4)."
--Php 2:6--

 

[ChristB4us]

John 13
16Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the Lord Jesus Christ before His incarnation as the God men had seen in the Old Testament.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: 4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. 6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. 8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

That was the day Abraham was glad because He told him that he would have a son.

God appeared and was seen by Isaac & Jacob too.

Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

How do we know it was not God the Father men had seen rather than the Son, as Jesus did say Abraham had seen Him in his day?

John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Jesus testified that He has seen the Father as He is of God.
@Keiw1

 

[Runningman]

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the Lord Jesus Christ before His incarnation as the God men had seen in the Old Testament.

Not according to scripture. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the I AM, YHWH, and that's His name forever and how He is to be remembered. Jesus is not remembered this way at all.

Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, the I AM (Jn 8:58),
"being in very nature God (Jn 1:1),
did not consider equality with God something to be clung to,
but emptied himself (made himself nothing, gave up his glory; descended to earth--Eph 4:9),
taking on the form of a servant (e.g., Jn 13:4)."
--Php 2:6--

Jesus is not God.

Only the Father gets glory when Jesus is bowed to:
Phil 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

The word is an it:
1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus is not God.

NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) disagrees with you:

". . .the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh and dwelled among us." (Jn 1:1, 14)

"Before Abraham was, I AM." (Jn 8:58)

Only the Father gets glory when Jesus is bowed to:
Phil 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Agreed.

The word is an it:

Yes, in Greek philosophy, that "it" (logos) is the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe.