Decisional Regeneration vs. Divine Regeneration

[Alive]

It has nothing to do with whether or not one can save himself. That is the standard old Calvinist strawman. Dead in trespasses and sins is a condition of the spirit due to the trespasses and sins committed by the person. The question that must be answered then is what happens to the person who is made alive. What does that mean? Colossians 2:13 says it means God "having forgiven us all our trespasses". I don't know anyone who thinks anyone has the ability to forgive his own trespasses and sins and thus make himself alive.

Click on Salvation is Relocation in my signature and then come back to this question.

 

[Carbon]

And you think being "zapped" in some way makes you believe what you hear?

Huh, what did I ever mention being zapped? Can you at least follow along?

Think about how silly that is.

Being zapped? Yes, that would probably be quite silly.

Once again you just cannot quite come to the point of thinking that God could possibly communicate through his written word effectively enough for any "unregenerate" to believe Him.

That God could possibly? Why are you assuming you know what I believe? If that is the way God decided to save individuals, then yes ofcourse that's how it would be done. But I think your being emotional, because that is not how Scripture describes how God saves.

The "whosoever" believes is not really whosoever. It never says the "regenerate" who believes and is baptized will be saved.

Huh, Jim, relax. Sorry, but that looks like emotional vomit.

Sorry but, I think you're really mixing things up here.

 

[JIM]

Huh, what did I ever mention being zapped? Can you at least follow along?

Pretty much fits your description of regeneration.

 

[Carbon]

And according to you then, faith is nothing more than a mental implant.

Lol. Wow, Jim. This really upsets you. Maybe you shouldn't reply to this thread any longer?

It's not a mental implant Jim. It's something the new man in Christ possesses.

It is amazing that some men seem to have no control or say in what they believe. Sounds like a democrat. Sorry about that. Couldn't help myself.

Haha, no reason to be sorry. That;'s kinda of funny. Oh, and I'm glad your voting for Trump by the way.

 

[JIM]

Huh, Jim, relax. Sorry, but that looks like emotional vomit.

Lol. Wow, Carbon. This really upsets you. Maybe you shouldn't reply to this thread any longer?

{edit}

 

[Carbon]

Pretty much fits your description of regeneration.

Well, according to you maybe. And you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Carbon]

Sorry, emotional vomit is how I would characterize Calvin's soteriology.

Huh, well yes you can. But you keep displaying it.

 

[Carbon]

Sorry, emotional vomit is how I would characterize Calvin's soteriology.

A wise old reformer, Kuiper, once said:

What is the essential difference between saving faith and temporal faith? We can say that saving faith has its root in the regenerate heart and that the temporary believer has no root in himself - that is to say, lacking a regenerated heart, his faith does not proceed from the innermost depths of his being but has its seat in the shallows of the emotions.

 

[Carbon]

I am serious. I think it displays a really terrible view of God as One who predetermines the reprobate for His own good pleasure.

Okay, you and many others.

 

[Josheb]

Prove it is a good one.

Shifting onus. Is this another occasion where you drop in on someone else's thread, post irrelevancies and baseless accusation without ever taking responsibility for anything while endlessly resorting to non sequiturs, red herrings, straw men, and shifting onuses to avoid accountability?

You made a claim and were asked to prove it. Now you're avoiding doing so.

A terrible analogy. The whole of God's word is apparently irrelevant.

Will you prove that, or not?

 

[JIM]

A wise old reformer, Kuiper, once said:

What is the essential difference between saving faith and temporal faith? We can say that saving faith has its root in the regenerate heart and that the temporary believer has no root in himself - that is to say, lacking a regenerated heart, his faith does not proceed from the innermost depths of his being but has its seat in the shallows of the emotions.

That is simply redefining the meaning of the word to match the theology; and that is something that Reformed Theology does a lot of.

 

[JIM]

Okay, you and many others.

And you don't? It sure sounds to me like you do.

 

[Carbon]

And you don't? It sure sounds to me like you do.

 

[Carbon]

That is simply redefining the meaning of the word to match the theology; and that is something that Reformed Theology does a lot of.

You're entitled to your opinion. Thanks.

 

[Arial]

It has nothing to do with whether or not one can save himself.

It has everything to do with it.That is what dead means in the passage. I would just once like to see you actually address what is being said instead of avoiding it to run the conversation your own direction.

That is the standard old Calvinist strawman.

This is the standard old straw man used by Calvinist haters and is a deflecting and a red herring. It is also antagonistic baiting meant to stir up trouble. It is the type of thing we are trying to remove from this forum. Just answer the questions, address the issues with support from Scripture, exegesis and exposition included.

Dead in trespasses and sins is a condition of the spirit due to the trespasses and sins committed by the person.

Does that make a difference in what the passage is saying. FYI no one has ever said it means a person is actually physically dead. Straw man. Red herring. See post above.

The question that must be answered then is what happens to the person who is made alive. What does that mean?

That is not the question at all.

What does that mean? Colossians 2:13 says it means God "having forgiven us all our trespasses". I don't know anyone who thinks anyone has the ability to forgive his own trespasses and sins and thus make himself alive.

You have completely bypassed the issue. Why don't you clarify exactly what it is you are disagreeing with? And how is it possible for someone who doesn't believe to decide to believe what they don't believe?

 

[JIM]

Laugh all you want, but that, sadly, is the Reformed Theology definition of election.

 

[Carbon]

Laugh all you want, but that, sadly, is the Reformed Theology definition of election.

Write that in your notebook. Keep that definition with all your other made-up definitions.

 

[Arial]

God regenerates those who believe. That is what through faith means.

Not according to Jesus in John 3. They don't have faith to believe unless they have been made a new man by regeneration.And, regeneration is not a reward for faith or dependent in any way upon faith. How could it be?

 

[JIM]

It has everything to do with it.That is what dead means in the passage. I would just once like to see you actually address what is being said instead of avoiding it to run the conversation your own direction.

This is the standard old straw man used by Calvinist haters and is a deflecting and a red herring. It is also antagonistic baiting meant to stir up trouble. It is the type of thing we are trying to remove from this forum. Just answer the questions, address the issues with support from Scripture, exegesis and exposition included.

As I said, I don't know anyone who thinks he can save himself. That is what the Calvinist says about the non-Calvinist.

Does that make a difference in what the passage is saying. FYI no one has ever said it means a person is actually physically dead. Straw man. Red herring. See post above.

Yes, he can do anything and everything except, hear and believe in God. In other words, God, by the Holy Spirit and through the Prophets and Apostles produced his written word, knowing that there would be absolutely no one who could be able to understand and obey any of it. And even worse, condemning them for that.

 

[Carbon]

As I said, I don't know anyone who thinks he can save himself. That is what the Calvinist says about the non-Calvinist.

But I'm sure you see the practice all the time.