Faith comes by hearing.

[Arial]

They are the same word in Greek.

That does not mean they are always used in the same way.

 

[Alive]

You have that backwards.

When we believe someone, that means we believe what they say and our actions show the belief. When we believe God it means we believe what he says in the word about Christ, and our faith rests on those things. (Of course we believe everything he says, but I am putting this in the context of salvation.)

When we believe in someone it is not the same as believing in God. In a person to person relationship, yes it is the same as faith. But it is faith in the person. But when it comes to God----who is invisible whereas people are not---- believing in him very well might mean nothing more than you believe he exists. It becomes something that must be clarified.

Not always. Muslims believe in God.JW's believe in God. Many who are anti-religion believe in God. Many attend church every Sunday for their whole lives, and believe in God. Jews believe in God. And yet, they do not believe what God says about Jesus. Probably most believe that Jesus is real and he really existed, but they do not believe he died and rose again from the dead, or made atonement for sin.

I was thinking about a while ago. Actually, a few times lately.

Your last paragraph.
I might believe a thing that does not actually exist…like Bigfoot for instance.
I think the folks in the cults you mention are believing in a God that does not exist.

 

[Alive]

A further point to help. Folks that worship an idol called a god. A graven image. Is a god that simply does not exist.
You can righty say, that these folks worship an imagination “as” god.
Its a delusion.

 

[makesends]

They are the same word in Greek.

Not sure how that is relevant. There are many words in any language that are used more than one way, or to mean different things, or to refer to different things.

 

[Arial]

I was thinking about a while ago. Actually, a few times lately.

Your last paragraph.
I might believe a thing that does not actually exist…like Bigfoot for instance.
I think the folks in the cults you mention are believing in a God that does not exist.

Certainly it can't be God as he is, but one of their own design. It brings a couple of thoughts come to my mind.

The Jews do believe in the real God. The one true and living God. What they don't believe is that Jesus was the Messiah that God promised. So all their belief in the one true and living God accounts for nothing as to eternal life or the kingdom of God. (I speak only on unbelieving Jews, not all Jews.)

I grew up in Christian Science and the god they teach is impersonal---divine mind they call him. And yet in my own mind I always considered him a him, a personal being (though I did not know that word or concept.) Was that the real one true and living God that I prayed to and got angry with on occasion , and loved, and I just didn't know him yet in a personal way? Did I have that about God because "His eye is on the sparrow and he watches over me?" I "believed" the divine mind thing, I didn't think my parents could be wrong, but I never ever could wrap my mind around it. God always felt like a personal being to me in my thoughts.

 

[makesends]

@JIM

Not always. Muslims believe in God.JW's believe in God. Many who are anti-religion believe in God. Many attend church every Sunday for their whole lives, and believe in God. Jews believe in God. And yet, they do not believe what God says about Jesus. Probably most believe that Jesus is real and he really existed, but they do not believe he died and rose again from the dead, or made atonement for sin.

When I was an employee of the Dept of Corrections, years ago, though it was against policy, I had a Black Muslim inmate 'friend' with whom I had many good discussions. He had a better notion of the logically necessary attributes of the person of God —i.e. he knew better what the knowledge of God's existence implied— than I would say 90% of mainstream Christianity does, and yes, he was afraid. He also could not stand the name, Jesus, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't really know why, or would not let himself face the question.

 

[Carbon]

God creates the occasion when and where the gospel is preached and heard.

Of course.

God enables of empowers both the speaker's articulation and the hearer's understanding.

And how do you suppose this is done?

Listening and hearing are two different things.

Absolutly.

So too are hearing and understanding.

Yep

Scripture teaches no one is righteous, "here is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God," (Ps. 53:2-3; Rom. 3:11). When that is applied to a crowd listening to the gospel being preached to non-believers that necessarily means the crowd is sinful and none of its individuals are seeking God , and God, of course, knows that. Scripture also teaches there are some occasions when and where God actively prevents understanding of what is said/heard. Isaiah 6:9, Matthew 113:14, Mark, 4:12, Luke 8:10, John 12:40, Acts 28:26 and other passages would be clearly stated examples of this.

Are you saying that man has the ability to understand of his own if he is actually listening?
And God know if one is listening or not?

 

[Carbon]

But once again, you have assigned a personal (Calvinistic?) bias to the meaning of the word faith which is not biblical.

If the gospel sounds like Calvinism, that should tell you something.

 

[Carbon]

If the gospel sounds like Calvinism, that should tell you something.

@JIM Maybe you should consider Calvinism?

 

[Carbon]

Why do so many think that believing in God is somehow different than believing in any other personally non-provable thing.

Why do you think you know what so many think? Are you a mind reader now?

 

[Carbon]

Why you asked? Jim, God has given us his word as a source of information, supported by many infallible proof per Acts 1:3. He also has given to us his own testimony concerning some things which you here mentioned.

Explaining biblical truth to some people is like pouring new wine into old wineskins.

 

[Josheb]

And how do you suppose this is done?

Snaps His fingers .

Are you saying that man has the ability to understand of his own if he is actually listening?

No. The things of the Spirit are not comprehendible by the natural man (1 Cor. 2:14).,

And God know if one is listening or not?

God knows all things.

 

[JIM]

Explaining biblical truth to some people is like pouring new wine into old wineskins.

And explaining biblical truth to some people is like pouring wine, new and old, on the ground.

 

[JIM]

Snaps His fingers .

I would quite expect that you would think that God has fingers to snap.

No. The things of the Spirit are not comprehendible by the natural man (1 Cor. 2:14).,

That is not the problem here. There are far too many who think that still small voice they here is God speaking to them when it is nothing more than an imaginary friend at best. He has said all that He needs to say in the scriptures. If He can't communicate through his written word, that is something that God needs to work on, not man. The idea that God can't communicate with the unregenerate is seriously dishonoring God.

God knows all things.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that you (we) do.

 

[JIM]

If the gospel sounds like Calvinism, that should tell you something.

But it doesn't, and that tells me something. And it tells me something, not about the gospel, but about Calvinism.

 

[JIM]

@JIM Maybe you should consider Calvinism?

I have considered Calvinism, oh so many times in speaking with Calvinists. And each time I become more convinced in the offense of Calvinism. It always sounds like someone looking to blame someone else for their own missteps, but so happy that none of those missteps ever mattered anyway.

 

[makesends]

I would quite expect that you would think that God has fingers to snap.

That is not the problem here. There are far too many who think that still small voice they here is God speaking to them when it is nothing more than an imaginary friend at best. He has said all that He needs to say in the scriptures. If He can't communicate through his written word, that is something that God needs to work on, not man. The idea that God can't communicate with the unregenerate is seriously dishonoring God.

Nobody is saying that God can't. Ask yourself honestly —why would God even want to communicate with the unregenerate? But, regardless, he only means for them to understand just so much, each to whatever degree he intends. (God doesn't "try to" communicate). And the means he uses to do that includes human intelligence, presumption, foolishness and ignorance, not to mention many other things.

I think you would have to admit that there isn't much that he says that any of us understands completely.

 

[JIM]

Why do you think you know what so many think? Are you a mind reader now?

I don't need to read minds, I only need to read what is written for all to see.

 

[JIM]

Nobody is saying that God can't. Ask yourself honestly —why would God even want to communicate with the unregenerate?

Why would God even want to communicate or save anyone?

 

[Mr GLee]

Nobody is saying that God can't. Ask yourself honestly —why would God even want to communicate with the unregenerate?

Other than breathing in His own Eternal Sprit in them.. let there be new born again Spirit life? That kind of communication?