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Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

  • Calvinist

  • Arminian

  • Somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism

  • Semi-Pelagian

  • Pelagian

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And...


1 Timothy 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 5:
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

By combining the truth from those 3 scriptures, Christ's atonement is received when we believe and not before. His blood can save all but only applied and received when one believes in Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.
The issue is not when or how the atonement is applied to a person. The issue is that Fullerism claims that any individual could be saved, if he believed (including those whom God has not chosen to be saved), meaning that he had to have been atoned for, in order for there to be anything to apply.

John 3:18 is about the fact that everyone is, by default, already under condemnation. Those who do not believe, remain under that condemnation.

1 Tim. 4:9 is in the context of the preceding verses, which show that the "all men" refers to categories, not individuals (see verses 1 and 2).

In Rom. 5:11, the KJV translation, "...we have now received the atonement.", is better rendered "reconciliation", instead of "atonement".
 
Another thing I'm right about, is that Jesus said if the Seed hadn't been carried away; the Trodden Soil could turn and be healed. This speaks of Sufficiency...
This is a smorgasbord of mixed metaphors! It's so jumbled that I'd like you to quote the relevant Scriptures, so that we can be sure to what you refer.

The question is; why is Sufficiency true of the Cross though? The reason is due to the Sacrifice of the Cross, not the Atonement of the Cross...
The cross would be sufficient in value for everyone, had that been God's intent, because Christ, being the Eternal God manifest in the flesh, is an infinitely valuable sacrifice, accomplishing an infinitely valuable atonement.
 
This is a smorgasbord of mixed metaphors! It's so jumbled that I'd like you to quote the relevant Scriptures, so that we can be sure to what you refer.


The cross would be sufficient in value for everyone, had that been God's intent, because Christ, being the Eternal God manifest in the flesh, is an infinitely valuable sacrifice, accomplishing an infinitely valuable atonement.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. - Luke 8:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke8:12&version=KJV

I teach that the Trodden ground is the hard hearts of the Reprobate. The Stony and Weedy Soils are Reprobate hearts too, but the Wayside is the hardest Reprobate hearts in existence. If the Gospel Seed weren't carried away, Jesus said he would HAVE to heal them, as he healed the Good Soil...
 
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Welcome ChristB4 us!
Thank you preacher4truth !
The above is interesting. What do you mean by "every lost lamb?" Who are they exactly?
From little children to new believers in Christ that have gone astray.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

As He will excommunicate at the pre great tribulation rapture event as the church is supposed to when it comes to unrepentant believer & former believers, He will go after the lost sheep that gets left behind as He will finish His work in them to His glory.
Do you believe they were saved, then lost salvation?
No. Those who get left behind just miss out on being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection as vessels unto honor in His House as vessels of gold & silver, but they are still saved so that when they die, their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, the vessels of wood & earth.

That is why we are to seek the good of even former believers by encouraging them to go before that throne of grace to see the lies that turned them away from him so they can repent and be ready to go as vessels unto honor for when the Bridegroom comes.

The first inheritance of being that vessel unto honor in His House is the obtaining of that eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

So any iniquity on that foundation per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 below which defiles the temple of God for when the Bridegroom comes, will be left behind in that day verse 13 to incur a physical death in verses 16-17 but the spirit is still saved verse 15 below.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
At what point specifically are these left behind?
At the pre great tribulation rapture event for when the Bridegroom shall judge His House first.
Hmmm. OK.
He will finish His work in those left behind as you compare the stripes in verses 47-48 below for not being ready on those believers that shall be cut off to be with the unbeliever in verse 46 below for when that fire comes on the earth in verse 49, one can see that this is when the Father will chasten & scourge every child He receives, especially those that get left behind.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Like Esau and the prodigal son that gave up their first inheritance for something temporary and can never get it back, the left behind saints & former believers will find that they are still sons of God as they will testify as vessels of wood & earth of the power of God in salvation for all those that believe, even in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. - Luke 8:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke8:12&version=KJV

I teach that the Trodden ground is the hard hearts of the Reprobate. The Stony and Weedy Soils are Reprobate hearts too, but the Wayside is the hardest Reprobate hearts in existence. If the Gospel Seed weren't carried away, Jesus said he would HAVE to heal them...
Actually, when the seed has been taken by the devil is when they had not actually received the seed and so they never had believed even though they heard the word. That does not mean they will never eventually believe down the road in their life. Only God knows that.

The other two grounds the seed was received thus is saved, but it was not fruitful as the good soil that did receive the seed and produced many fruits like a disciple by His grace & by His help.
 
Actually, when the seed has been taken by the devil is when they had not actually received the seed and so they never had believed even though they heard the word. That does not mean they will never eventually believe down the road in their life. Only God knows that.

The other two grounds the seed was received thus is saved, but it was not fruitful as the good soil that did receive the seed and produced many fruits like a disciple by His grace & by His help.
I would disagree and say that the Rocky and Weedy Soils were Unconditionally Reprobate Soils too; along with the Trodden Soil. Christ will Lose none; and the Weedy and Rocky Soils were Lost. They never were of us; the Good Soil...

The Good Soil was first Tilled/Regenerated by God the Farmer; then he Sows the Gospel Seed through YOU...
 
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I would disagree and say that the Rocky and Weedy Soils were Unconditionally Reprobate Soils too; along with the Trodden Soil. Christ will Lose none; and the Weedy and Rocky Soils were Lost...

The Good Soil was first Tilled/Regenerated by God the Farmer...
Turning Swords into Plowshares ~ by ReverendRV * November 28

Isaiah 2:4 KJV
; And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Jesus said ‘Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth; Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.’ ~ Spiritually speaking, no one begins in life as a peacemaker, but instead we begin as enemies of God. The Bible says that Stealing, Lying, and Cursing with God’s name are all Sin; and they’re only the tip of the Iceberg. Jesus also said ‘He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters’; so there is no neutrality. When one decides to repent and follow Jesus, they are no longer enemies of God. Former enemies know the way of weapons, but when they no longer need them; they can put a weapon to a better use…

Jesus said ‘Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.’ There are times when Christians obey this, but it seems they can’t get through to some people. Jesus compares the heart of these people to hard, trodden ground; ‘When anyone hears the Message about the Kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the Seed sown along the path.’ This is when the ground of your heart needs to be tilled. ~ The Prophet Ezekiel describes it like this; ‘I will give you a New Heart and put a New Spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a Heart of flesh.’ God makes the ground of your heart good and then compares it to tilled soil. God uses the Law of God to penetrate your heart, Paul describes it like this; ‘For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.’ ~ A follower of Christ will lay down his carnal sword and pick up the ‘Sword which is the Word of God’; and use it as a plowshare to break ground in your rock hard heart…

This is what Saint Peter did at the first Christian Pentecost. By the power of God’s Holy Spirit, Peter rose and preached to the crowds. Everyone present knew of how God had been working the last few years in the land of Israel, and SURELY there were large crowds assembled to see if it would continue. There were people who would had seen the Miracles of Christ; giving sight to the blind, feeding the thousands and raising the dead. There would have been people there who saw the darkness the day Christ was Crucified, and when they heard Peter quote the prophecy of Joel, they would have known the darkness was predicted long ago. There would have been people who told Pontius Pilate to Crucify Jesus, and when Peter proclaimed this, ‘They were cut to the Heart’. Peter turned the Sword he used to cut off a guard's ear into a Plowshare, and turn the Spear that pierced Christ's heart into a pruning Hook; reaping a harvest that day of three thousand people!

You have reason to worry today if you have not turned to Jesus Christ as your Savior. Moses said, ‘But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the LORD had said.’ You are the one who trods down the path which is your heart, making it harder! We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the risen Savior Jesus Christ, not by Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; read your Bible and go to Church. ~ Eternal life will now be able to grow in the circumcision which the Bible has cut into your Heart…

John 5:24 ESV; Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
 
The issue is not when or how the atonement is applied to a person. The issue is that Fullerism claims that any individual could be saved, if he believed (including those whom God has not chosen to be saved), meaning that he had to have been atoned for, in order for there to be anything to apply.

John 3:18 is about the fact that everyone is, by default, already under condemnation. Those who do not believe, remain under that condemnation.

1 Tim. 4:9 is in the context of the preceding verses, which show that the "all men" refers to categories, not individuals (see verses 1 and 2).

In Rom. 5:11, the KJV translation, "...we have now received the atonement.", is better rendered "reconciliation", instead of "atonement".
I believe if we read on from John 3:18, we may see how and why God the Father draws some unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe in him and be saved and not others whom He foreknew that prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the light to be reproved of them.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

With those 2 truths from those two scriptural references in mind, we can read on from John 3:18 to 3:21 below.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I believe our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of the Father & the Son.

We can see the Father & the Son in action by how He led those by the Spirit not to go to certain countries to preach the gospel but to Macedonia where they were ready to receive the gospel.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Kind of goes along with Jesus's instruction not to cast pearls before swine as there will be sinners that do not want to hear it, therefore they are not seeking Him.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
 
I would disagree and say that the Rocky and Weedy Soils were Unconditionally Reprobate Soils too; along with the Trodden Soil. Christ will Lose none; and the Weedy and Rocky Soils were Lost...

The Good Soil was first Tilled/Regenerated by God the Farmer; then he Sows the Gospel Seed through YOU...
Reprobate also means disqualified. This would be why in failing to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help them lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son is why saved believers will not only lose their crowns but become castaways also.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Those who stop abiding in Him & His words, run the risk of being cut off to be with the unbelievers & thus left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

So the other two soils where they stop producing fruit, they run the risk of being cut off.
 
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Reprobate also means disqualified. This would be why in failing to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help them lay aside every weight & sin daily i walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the son is why saved believers will not only lose their crowns but become castaways also.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Those who stop abiding in Him & His words, run the risk of being cut off to be with the unbelievers & thus left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

So the other two soils where they stop producing fruit, they run the risk of being cut off.
The word you highlighted "Castaway" is mostly translated as Reprobate. The Verse can mean that in the long run, he finds out he was always Reprobate; instead of becoming a Reprobate...

I'm a Fundamentalist. The bottom line is, those who left us were never of us; IE not of the Good Soil...
 
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The issue is not when or how the atonement is applied to a person. The issue is that Fullerism claims that any individual could be saved, if he believed (including those whom God has not chosen to be saved), meaning that he had to have been atoned for, in order for there to be anything to apply.

John 3:18 is about the fact that everyone is, by default, already under condemnation. Those who do not believe, remain under that condemnation.
As post # 250 explains not any man will be saved if the Father is not behind it this refuting Fullerism.
1 Tim. 4:9 is in the context of the preceding verses, which show that the "all men" refers to categories, not individuals (see verses 1 and 2).
"Specially" of those that believe would refer to individuals that believe and not all men as such a broad category.
In Rom. 5:11, the KJV translation, "...we have now received the atonement.", is better rendered "reconciliation", instead of "atonement".
What about the preceding verse at the beginning of the chapter?

Romans 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Seems the KJV has it right after all.
 
The word you highlighted "Castaway" is mostly translated as Reprobate.
I can agree but it is still applicable as castaway.
The Verse can mean that in the long run, he finds out he was always Reprobate; instead of becoming a Reprobate...
The reference has Paul saying that and so we cannot say he was never saved or was always a reprobate either.

The danger of this line of thinking is when a believer sins again, he just gives up thinking he will always be a reprobate & quits running the race.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
I'm a Fundamentalist. The bottom line is, those who left us were never of us; IE the Good Soil...
I am learning in the Lord and He is helping me to not go after those who go astray in these apostate movements of the spirit as they went out from us so that it may be manifest they were not of us.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

But there are scripture that suggest to be open to His leading that He may be peradventuring to recover some from the snares of the devil.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And yet...

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

i believe my problem is when to let go but I trust Him to help me to do that.
 
I believe He will not recover every lost lamb by the time He comes as the Bridegroom for why only a few will be found abiding in Him, which is why those denied by Him for being workers of iniquity as that iniquity by its work denies Him, He still abides even in those left behind as He will finish His work even in those unrepentant saints left behind.
Those abiding in Him are His lambs and few is relative. The lambs are the ones God gives to the Son. He will lose none that the Father has given Him. A few compared to the whole of humanity.

There won't be an left behind. This is my view.
 
I can agree but it is still applicable as castaway.

The reference has Paul saying that and so we cannot say he was never saved or was always a reprobate either.

The danger of this line of thinking is when a believer sins again, he just gives up thinking he will always be a reprobate & quits running the race.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I am learning in the Lord and He is helping me to not go after those who go astray in these apostate movements of the spirit as they went out from us so that it may be manifest they were not of us.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

But there are scripture that suggest to be open to his leading that He may be peradventuring to recover some from the snares of the devil.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And yet...

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

i believe my problem is when to let go but I trust Him to help me to do that.
I disagree, we can say he meant he could find out he was always Reprobate. Let's look at Ravi Zacharias; there's a good chance he could always have been a Reprobate. How can it be? One thing is for sure, this is a Fundamental Hermeneutic. Those that left us were never of us; IE not of the Good Soil...

I suspect you agree that the Rocky and Weedy Soils were never of the Good Soil. We have to avoid committing the Logical Fallacy of making a Category Mistake. The Parable of the Soils consists of four distinct Categories of Soils. There are not three Categories of Good Soils; right? All the failed Categories of Soils belong to the Category of Reprobate hearts; no matter how you say they achieved Reprobation...

You may have noticed how I debate. I stick with the Fundamentals of the Faith. I try my best to stay on task; a Fundamental is always a Fundamental. And please notice I don't Post long Posts...
 
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Those abiding in Him are His lambs and few is relative. The lambs are the ones God gives to the Son. He will lose none that the Father has given Him. A few compared to the whole of humanity.

There won't be an left behind. This is my view.
I understand your view but can you align what is being written in scriptures that runs contrary to your view?

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

See how that branch was of the vine and yet can be taken away and cast forth into the fire?

Then we read how He is warning believers to be ready or else be cut off to be with the unbelievers and they will get certain measure of stripes for not being ready and still called servants as still His servants for when He sends that fire on the earth.


Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So here we have a cutting and a taken away as having been saved but what? Missing out on the firstfruit of the resurrection for ceasing to abide in Him and thus not being ready to go.

Yet if a saved believer, even a former believer departs from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, he shall be received as that vessel unto honor in His House but if they do not look to Him for help to depart from iniquity by the time the Bridegroom comes, they will be left behind to die, but their spirts will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So those that have gone astray and those that are saved but fallen into sin in reaping corruption, He will finish His work in those left behind as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him. This explains why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House as they are still saved.
 
I disagree, we can say he meant he could find out he was always Reprobate. Let's look at Ravi Zacharias; there's a good chance he could always have been a Reprobate. How can it be? One thing is for sure, this is a Fundamental Hermeneutic. Those that left us were never of us; IE not of the Good Soil...

I suspect you agree that the Rocky and Weedy Soils were never of the Good Soil. We have to avoid committing the Logical Fallacy of making a Category Mistake. The Parable of the Soils consists of four distinct Categories of Soils. There are not three Categories of Good Soils; right? All the failed Category of Soils belong to the Category of Reprobate hearts; no matter how you say they achieved Reprobation...

You may have noticed how I debate. I stick with the Fundamentals of the Faith. I try my best to stay on task; a Fundamental is always aFundamental...
Okay then. Let us go to the parable of the Sower as explained by Jesus Christ to His disciples.

Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

That is an unbeliever.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Example is a believer not rooted in the word and someone shames him for believing the word because of that false science, the evolution theory and so is offended to believe the Bible about Noah's ark and all of that but by Gd's grace & His help, if he knew Jesus referred to it as a warning in Luke 17:26-37 along with Sodom & Gomorrah which has been found, he would know that the global flood was a real catastrophic event and that evolution theory is false.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

This is what happens when a believer treasures the things of this world that he may find it hard to leave it when the Bridegroom comes. Luke 14:15-24 can also apply to that as well as Luke 21:33-36.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now since we all have different walks & growth in our life with the Lord as we are to move on to perfection by His grace & by His help, are we not also required to feed His sheep if we love Him? Are we not required to share our talents of what He has taught us with others?

And are we not to seek the lost sheep as referring to the sheep that are His but got lost as He would?

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Is that not part of our faith in Jesus Christ to do, in keeping the faith which is the good fight?

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
 
Okay then. Let us go to the parable of the Sower as explained by Jesus Christ to His disciples.

Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

That is an unbeliever.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Example is a believer not rooted in the word and someone shames him for believing the word because of that false science, the evolution theory and so is offended to believe the Bible about Noah's ark and all of that but by Gd's grace & His help, if he knew Jesus referred to it as a warning in Luke 17:26-37 along with Sodom & Gomorrah which has been found, he would know that the global flood was a real catastrophic event and that evolution theory is false.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

This is what happens when a believer treasures the things of this world that he may find it hard to leave it when the Bridegroom comes. Luke 14:15-24 can also apply to that as well as Luke 21:33-36.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now since we all have different walks & growth in our life with the Lord as we are to move on to perfection by His grace & by His help, are we not also required to feed His sheep if we love Him? Are we not required to share our talents of what He has taught us with others?

And are we not to seek the lost sheep as referring to the sheep that are His but got lost as He would?

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Is that not part of our faith in Jesus Christ to do, in keeping the faith which is the good fight?

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
This is how you should interpret the Parable of the Sower; IE in light of Fundamentals providing Hermeneutical influence in your Doctrine...

Those who left us were never of us...

What you should do is ask me, 'Why is my Verse not a Fundamental?'...
 
I am sure one can be agreeing with Calvin side more so but still one can be ensnared to think they have to defend everything Calvin taught just because they agree with some points of truth as applied from the scripture, but I point out that Calvin at one time had agreed to the execution of a heretic which is not supported by scripture but reproved instead.
Don't be so sure the common narrative is correct on this. I can't find it, but I read a letter from Calvin to someone, puzzled that it was claimed he had been consenting to the death of Servetus, when in fact he had tried to avoid it. He certainly did not order it. The following is basically a synopsis, if I understand correctly, of a longer treatment of just what did happen and how to understand it.

 
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