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Apostles creed question.

Carbon

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Here is the apostles creed.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
 
Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
I do not know what it means or even if it is true.

I have read from a Reformed source that no longer remember which or who, that since God is everywhere He is also present in hell. This makes logical sense I suppose, but I shy away from giving it any thought. If He is, we have no idea in what way or what capacity or why. The same thing holds true of Jesus if he went into hell---which I would say is different than saying He went to hell. There are a couple of scriptures that indicate possibly that He preached there. As far as I am concerned there is too much we don't know and so it could only be speculation. It will be interesting to hear other views. What is your view?
 
I'm actually working on a solid view for this ( if it's possible) so I don't want to reply yet, but rather read and learn for now.
 
I'm actually working on a solid view for this ( if it's possible) so I don't want to reply yet, but rather read and learn for now.
But for now I will say, I tend to think it is not speaking of hell literally.
 
There are a couple of scriptures that indicate possibly that He preached there.
But why would Jesus preach in hell. Hell has to be a permanent place? Whoever is there aint getting out. So what would the purpose be to preach there?
 
But why would Jesus preach in hell. Hell has to be a permanent place? Whoever is there aint getting out. So what would the purpose be to preach there?
The scripture that is used to say that is 1 Peter 3:18-22---which I don't think says that at all---and I did not mean to imply that He was preaching the gospel unless it was as a condemnation for their not having believed it. I do not think "making proclamation to the imprisoned spirits---can be defined as hell without question.
 
Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?

Have you read Ephesians 4:9-10?

(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)​

Paul asked an excellent question. Honestly, I don't know, but as a Traditionalist, the Bible teaches that Christ is still the God-man who has conscious activity in the intermediate state (between his death and resurrection), or he would not be able to make proclamation to the spirits in prison. Which I believe is referring to "hell" and not in the sense of purgatory that Catholic teaches. Even the rich man had conscious activity, he can see and talk, and experience torment and agony.

1 Peter 3:18-20 ...He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah...​
Luke 16:22-24 ...The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’​

From my standpoint, 1 Peter 3 is not talking about the people of Noah's days only, there is a larger context.

2 Peter 2:4-6 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;...​
Jude 1:6-7 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.​
Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.​

It's a place that was already prepared. And we don't know what the proclamation was since the Scriptures doesn't say. And we shouldn't speak outside of Scriptures. What we do know is that Christ holds the "keys" of death and hades.

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—​
Revelations 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.​
 
Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell
PERSONAL OPINION: Where would a DEAD SIN LADEN HUMAN go when they died?? Hell seems a reasonable destination. But since the SIN WASN'T HIS, then obviously He didn't stay long.
Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
PERSONAL OPINION: it was LITERAL HELL - although it also indicates that he preached to the souls, apparently in Abraham's Bosom, which was in the same "location", since they were the "Captivity" that he led "Captive" into heaven. His message would have been: "What GOD Promised is now provided, and you SINS can be cleansed"

There are other "opinions" - it's "Theology" after all.. (Luke 16:19-31)
 
Have you read Ephesians 4:9-10?

(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)​

Paul asked an excellent question. Honestly, I don't know, but as a Traditionalist, the Bible teaches that Christ is still the God-man who has conscious activity in the intermediate state (between his death and resurrection), or he would not be able to make proclamation to the spirits in prison. Which I believe is referring to "hell" and not in the sense of purgatory that Catholic teaches. Even the rich man had conscious activity, he can see and talk, and experience torment and agony.

1 Peter 3:18-20 ...He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah...​
Luke 16:22-24 ...The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’​

From my standpoint, 1 Peter 3 is not talking about the people of Noah's days only, there is a larger context.

2 Peter 2:4-6 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;...​
Jude 1:6-7 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.​
Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.​

It's a place that was already prepared. And we don't know what the proclamation was since the Scriptures doesn't say. And we shouldn't speak outside of Scriptures. What we do know is that Christ holds the "keys" of death and hades.

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—​
Revelations 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.​
Thanks for your reply, and some things to chew on.
 
PERSONAL OPINION: Where would a DEAD SIN LADEN HUMAN go when they died?? Hell seems a reasonable destination. But since the SIN WASN'T HIS, then obviously He didn't stay long.

PERSONAL OPINION: it was LITERAL HELL - although it also indicates that he preached to the souls, apparently in Abraham's Bosom, which was in the same "location", since they were the "Captivity" that he led "Captive" into heaven. His message would have been: "What GOD Promised is now provided, and you SINS can be cleansed"

There are other "opinions" - it's "Theology" after all.. (Luke 16:19-31)
Thanks. And more to chew on.
 
Here is the apostles creed.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
Jesus’ descent into hell means that Jesus “sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection” (the Catechism 632). Like all men, Jesus experienced death, and thus his soul joined others in this realm. But as the Catechism points out, “he descended there as Savior” (CCC 632) and preached the good news to the spirits imprisoned there (1 Pet. 3:19).

Does this mean Jesus descended into hell to deliver the damned? Does this mean Jesus destroyed the hell of damnation? No. Scripture often uses the term hellSheol in Hebrew and Hades in Greek—to refer to the abode of the dead, which consisted of both the righteous and the unrighteous who were deprived of the vision of God.

But this doesn’t mean their experience of that realm was identical. Jesus made this clear in his parable of the poor man and Lazarus (Luke 16:22-26). The Jews affectionately referred to the righteous abode as “Abraham’s bosom.”

It is these spirits to whom Jesus preached the good news. “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell” (CCC 633). [CA]
 
Here is the apostles creed.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
This is often said to be a reference to the ancient teaching regarding The Harrowing of Hell.
From the wiki link:
The Harrowing of Hell was taught by theologians of the early church: St Melito of Sardis (died c. 180) in his Homily on the Passover and more explicitly in his Homily for Holy Saturday, Tertullian (A Treatise on the Soul, 55, though he himself disagrees with the idea), Hippolytus (Treatise on Christ and Anti-Christ), Origen (Against Celsus, 2:43), and, later, Ambrose (died 397) all wrote of the Harrowing of Hell.
 
I always thought the Reformed held that it was on the cross that Jesus ‘descended into hell’.
The Nicene seems to omit it…

“He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.”
 
~
1Pet 3:18-20, when correctly interpreted as speaking of "my spirit" per Gen 6:3,
is very useful to folks believing the supreme being exists as a mysterious unity of
three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Plus: the Son himself is a mysterious unity, to wit: the Word per John 1:1-3, and
the flesh per John 1:14.

The Watchtower Society-- a.k.a. Jehovah's Witnesses --refuses to believe it's
possible for a supernatural entity to exist as a spirit being and a material being
simultaneously; but there are several theophanies in the Old Testament that
support the possibility, e.g. Gen 18:1-33, Gen 32:24-30, Ex 24:1-11, and Josh
5:13-15, et al.

Theophanies are quite a level above James Cameron's avatars. Theophanies aren't
vehicles and/or artificial people, rather, they are 100% fully functioning humans,
and can be thought of as God's interaction with mankind in safe mode (cf. Ex 33:20
& 1Tim 6:13-16) The Old Testament's theophanies are very useful for preparing Bible
readers' minds to buy into the ultimate theophany: Christ Jesus.
_
 
Last edited:
Here is the apostles creed.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
Well, a even better questions is there anyone there....
 
Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
Hell = the grave.

I have posted about the nature of "hell" multiple times here and other forums because it is important. The first important fact to understand is that (most of) the NT was written in Greek and largely to a population that understood Greek and was culturally Greek or Hellenistic. Simply put, the NT writers used the language prevalent in their day. That alone is all that is necessary for understanding their use of the words "hell," "hades" and "tartarus." Had they been writing strictly as Jews to an audience that was strictly and solely Jewish they'd have written in Hebrew or Aramaic and used the words "sheol" and "gehenna." It would do me no good to constantly use the words "ifreaan" or "mictean" to an English speaking audience. I could post 100 posts about ifreann or mictian and accomplish nothing because everyone is going to ask me, "What in the world are you talking about? What is 'ifreann'? What is 'mictian'?" I might as well be speaking gibberish. gleerflunkin zubernkta marqthexinch nabe dooilkip!

The next important point to understand is that JESUS DID NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THE PAGAN MYTHOLOGIES!!! Jesus likely spoke in Aramaic and he spoke from Tanakh. He did not teach Judaism. That may be a point in dispute my many reading this but Tanakh (the Old Testament) is not the same thing as Judaism. Tanakh is always and everywhere correct. Judaism is often incorrect. I can take that up in another thread for those interested but for now the point is Jesus taught the truth, the word of God, not the Jewish religious additions and changes to Tanakh. Tanakh spoke of sheol, or the grave. For mainline Jews that meant the cessation of life. There was no life after death and definitely not any resurrection. That was the belief of the Pharisees, the minority sect in Judaism. The pagans taught a world of lesser gods, one of which ruled an underworld where people went for all eternity when they died.

There are no lesser gods.

There is only God, the God of ALL things, the Maker of all that is, visible and invisible, the One true God and there are no others. There is, therefore, no such thing as Pluto. The "god" Pluto is a myth. The gods "Hades," "Vulcan," "Hel," "Osiris," "Arawn," "Ah Puch," "Mictlantecuhtli," and ALL the rest are myths. They do not actually exist. The grave exists. So does death, and it is appointed for every single human ever created to die once and then face judgment (Heb. 9:27).

God, the Creator is LORD of all. He and He alone is LORD of all, even LORD of and over death. That is what Jesus taught. When a person dies s/he does not go to the realm of some lesser god to continue living in misery under the rule of a mythological god of the dead. When a person dies they stand before their Creator and either the just recompense for their sinful life is meted out OR they are saved from that life and the end it brings by grace. There is no option to earn a place in the Elysian Fields outside of Olympus. That is a myth.



There are other germane points but for now the point is that "hell" simply means the grave and the core precept to Christianity is that Jesus came, lived, dies, was buried, and rose again from the grave. The entire foundation of Christianity is the belief Jesus rose from the grave. If that is not true then we Christians are fools and the most pitiful people who have ever lived. As Paul put it in 1 Corinthians 15:19,


If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.


If Jesus is not resurrected, we're schmucks. The gospel is an stumbling block to the Jew (who believes either there is no life after death or it is life under the Messiah's rule and the criminal they cursedly crucified is not the Messiah) and foolishness to the Gentile (who believes death is a miserable existence under the rule of a lesser god).

Now, doctrinally, a variety of things have been added to the word, "hell," and, doctrinally speaking, Christians have held a variety of beliefs about hell ranging from perpetual suffering to annihilation with ideas like purgatory somewhere in between. The Apostles' Creed is a doctrinal Creed and at the time of its inception (c. 340 AD) the prevailing religious/doctrinal view was Roman Catholic. The Apostles' Creed is not a Protestant creation. I would be inclined to say the earliest understanding of the Apostles' Creed's "hell" was purgatory but that would not be true because the doctrine of purgatory is a 12th century invention. The earliest speakers of the Apostles' Creed would NOT have understood, "descended into hell" to mean he went to purgatory to work off sins but did not have to stay because he had no sin to work off 😵‍💫. That's just nuts. From the earliest days of Christianity, it was understood Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, entered the grave and rose from the dead. All the many connotations of hell were added later.

One last note. When the creed speaks of the "catholic" church it is a small "c" catholic, not a capital "C" Catholic. The word "catholic" simply means all-encompassing or universal. It does not mean Roman.
 
Here is the apostles creed.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Question: what does it mean,

he descended to hell

Was this literally hell? Or what does it mean?
1 Pe 3:19.
 
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