A problem with premillennialism

[jeremiah1five]

Yep, Peter was human and messed up on occasions.
So did Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc.
And oh my gosh, it would take hours to list all the times Israel messed up over and over and over again.
Their whole history is filled with failure after failure.
Israel was just a mini version of the whole of mankind.

At least the apostle Peter recognized the history.

Acts 15:10-11 NET​

(10) So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?​

(11) On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they are.”​

And so did the apostle James.

Acts 15:13-18 NET​

(13) After they stopped speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me.​

(14) Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name.​

(15) The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written,​

(16) ‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it,​

(17) so that the rest of humanity may seek the Lord, namely, all the Gentiles I have called to be my own,’ says the Lord, who makes these things​

(18) known from long ago.​

God taking a people from among the Gentiles is correct for that is where He scattered His people - among the Gentiles.
Jesus sent His disciples to go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus was sent to only the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. None.
Jesus Christ came as the Lamb of God to die and atone for the sins of the House of Israel. His sacrifice accomplished that mission.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

The salvation that is of the Jews is wrapped up in those two verses.
Signed, sealed, delivered.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Arial,

The problem is: Dipsy's have Christ returning and ruling from a temporal temple, over temporal people, who go about daily life, marrying and being given in marriage, and a host of other nations preparing to revolt against King Jesus and the restored kingdom of Israel. Just as it is in this age.

I am not a Dipsy and do not know the full range of their beliefs. The picture given in Isaiah 2:1-4 is that it will not be as it is in this age with wars between nations and there will be no longer any civil wars. Jesus is the Prince of Peace.

And no resurrected, glorified people.

I believe that the faithful will be resurrected and become the kings and priests for the Kingdom period.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Arial]

It doesn't matter what Gentiles believe or disbelieve. I

Then why is it that most of what you do is telling us what we believe? Not what we do believe but nothing more than your assumptions of knowing all Gentiles and being able to read their minds. And trying to take from the little children or easily deceived what God has prepared for them. Remember the words Jesus spoke about the millstone?

God has no covenant with Gentiles. He never promised His Holy Spirit to Gentiles, never made covenant with Gentiles, never called Gentiles "His people" or "His saints," or His Church," or His Bride," or "His people."

God expresses His grace upon the children of Israel by giving them His Law in which to live and order their lives. God is not concerned with what Gentiles believe or don't believe. Gentiles are not the apple of His eye.

You have been shown countless scriptures that say otherwise, so you have no excuse. It is a willful rejection of the truth.

 

[Musicmaster]

As I explained, yes I am.

So you have inspiration on the same level as the apostles? Hmm. There is a psychological term for that, given that the apostles called us to be followers of them, not each other. The spiritually schizophrenic nature of some things that you've said, as defined by the very word of Yah, that's something that barks loudly to us all the warnings that accompanied comments from Paul about the Judaizers.

I think it safe to say that among all the believers here, you're not a voice of authority, and you're not worthy of being viewed as a teaching authority on any level worthy of consideration. Your pride speaks for itself. I personally am not worthy to wash the feet of those here, but do so willingly because Christ washed ours as an example to us all. It's only to Him we should point, not to ourselves.

I don't have to write Scripture because that's not in my call.
Thus says the Lord is. I just don't say it that way.

I have the same revelation as Saul. The same authority, but my call is not the same as his.

Who is "Saul?" You keep naming someone "Saul" without identifying who that is.

Also, your double-talk is clearly indicative of something deeper that sets off warning bells and red lights about you! You claim you have the revelatory authority of a prophet and apostle in the sense of "Thus saith the Lord," but just don't use those specific words...? Come on! Really? How did you arrive at this nonsense to think that you have that level of authority granted to you from above? You can't even rightly divide the word of truth, and you're an authority granted from the One who inspired the scriptures?

If there are ten privates in an army and Sergeant gives instruction to do something to one private, and the Sergeant gives instruction to another private to do something else, is one private higher than the other private in authority to do the thing he was instructed to do?
You need to be discipled in the things of God because there is some serious lack on your part on the truth of God.

I am an oracle of God. You just don't understand it because you don't know it.

If you were an oracle of Yah, then you would know me and things about me that nobody else could possibly glean...without going out onto the web and searching, of course, which is easy to do these days, and thus giving the appearance of being an "oracle."

You are amusing, however, and not to be feared. You do a reasonably good job at promoting yourself, but your conduct through words speaks an entirely different truth!

MM

 

[Arial]

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, is writing to churches that have both Jew and Gentile, born again believers. It is deceptive to isolate scriptures as you do, claim things that are obviously not true--such as your previous claim that all the NT letters are written to Jews only. And the churches in northern Galatia were Gentile.

There is external historic evidence, but let's look only at the internal evidence.

This letter was written to deal with a specific problem; that of agitators, likely Jewish. The zeal of these agitators likely reflects Jewish pressure and pride. They attacked Paul personally (4:17); preached a distorted form of Christianity (1:6.7); their gospel required circumcision for salvation (6:12). It is because the Galatians were were uncircumcised Gentiles that the agitators insisted that they not only believe Christ for salvation, but also be circumcised for salvation (2:3-5; 5:2, 6,11; 6:12,13,15).

4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Since Paul is writing to Gentiles, it cannot mean that only those born under the Mosaic Law are redeemed. So either he is referring to, though Christ was born under the Law, and was therefore obligated to keep it, and did, He is also identified with sinners who are under the curse of the Law. The discussion at this point in the letter is circumcision, and whether or not it is necessary for Gentiles to be circumcised in order to be saved. All are sinners, and all are obligated to keep God's law---not the legal document, which only applies to Jews, as it was given to them, but the moral code that is law, summarized in the ten commandments. Making applicable that all are under the curse of the law.

This is made evident when in verse 6, Paul says to the Gentiles who are recipients of this letter,as shown above, ANd because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" 7.So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

An heir is in a covenant relationship with God. Children are in a covenant relationship with their father.

Further internal evidence that Galatians is written to Gentiles.

4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. This would not apply to Jews.

1:16 {God} was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles---

 

[Musicmaster]

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, is writing to churches that have both Jew and Gentile, born again believers. It is deceptive to isolate scriptures as you do, claim things that are obviously not true--such as your previous claim that all the NT letters are written to Jews only. And the churches in northern Galatia were Gentile.

There is external historic evidence, but let's look only at the internal evidence.

This letter was written to deal with a specific problem; that of agitators, likely Jewish. The zeal of these agitators likely reflects Jewish pressure and pride. They attacked Paul personally (4:17); preached a distorted form of Christianity (1:6.7); their gospel required circumcision for salvation (6:12). It is because the Galatians were were uncircumcised Gentiles that the agitators insisted that they not only believe Christ for salvation, but also be circumcised for salvation (2:3-5; 5:2, 6,11; 6:12,13,15).

4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Since Paul is writing to Gentiles, it cannot mean that only those born under the Mosaic Law are redeemed. So either he is referring to, though Christ was born under the Law, and was therefore obligated to keep it, and did, He is also identified with sinners who are under the curse of the Law. The discussion at this point in the letter is circumcision, and whether or not it is necessary for Gentiles to be circumcised in order to be saved. All are sinners, and all are obligated to keep God's law---not the legal document, which only applies to Jews, as it was given to them, but the moral code that is law, summarized in the ten commandments. Making applicable that all are under the curse of the law.

This is made evident when in verse 6, Paul says to the Gentiles who are recipients of this letter,as shown above, ANd because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" 7.So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

An heir is in a covenant relationship with God. Children are in a covenant relationship with their father.

Further internal evidence that Galatians is written to Gentiles.

4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. This would not apply to Jews.

1:16 {God} was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles---

Some people out there just don't get it when reading what is written:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

When someone lays claim to being on equal teaching authority and inspiration with the apostles, and yet contradicts the apostles, then either he is a false teacher, or he is a higher authority than the apostles, or he is a liar.

When one claims equal authority and inspiration as the apostles, and yet contradicts the words of the apostles, then he MUST be:

a) a false teacher - teaching what is patently false in comparison to the words of those who are known to have been inspired, and/or
b) a thief - stealing accolade that clearly is not his for the taking, and/or
c) hypocrite - saying things that are contradictory to what is known to be inspired, and yet laying claim to the same level of inerrancy as those who WERE inspired, which showing himself to possess all three of these inferior elements!

That's just pure logic. If this is somehow illogical, then I invite anyone out there to show otherwise.

MM

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then why is it that most of what you do is telling us what we believe?

I'm not telling you what you believe. I telling you what Scripture says for those that don't know, those that reject the bible, add to the bible, subtract from the bible, and change the bible through erroneous interpretation of the bible.
Only one of two things will come from this.
For those that reject the bible it will be my word by which those people will be judged.
The other is those who believe the bible as written will be blessed and not be caught unawares because they see the same Jesus of the bible as I do and say the same thing as God says and be "covered."

Not what we do believe but nothing more than your assumptions of knowing all Gentiles and being able to read their minds.

No, I can't read minds, not perfectly, but I can see hearts.

And trying to take from the little children

That can never happen if the little children belong to God.

or easily deceived what God has prepared for them.

Impossible. The Shepherd will feed His sheep. No one can prevent that.

Remember the words Jesus spoke about the millstone?

Well, I know of individuals who think they are without sin and can carry a stone in one hand ready to sling it, and I know groups of people who think they are without sin and three or four of these people carrying that millstone ready to drop it on a true born Christian on the ground. He's on the ground because they caught him on his knees paying and immediately attacked him. It has to do with accountability. If I warn them and they don't listen, then I'm "covered." If I warn them and they do listen, then they're "covered."

You have been shown countless scriptures that say otherwise, so you have no excuse. It is a willful rejection of the truth.

I disagree, Arial. I'm not the one who breaks Scripture in order to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant when the Scripture clearly states the covenant is with Abraham and his seed, a covenant where there is no mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles at all.

In Genesis God clearly identifies who is in this covenant: Abram the Hebrew and his seed.

If God wanted or intended non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant He would clearly say "non-Hebrew Gentiles" and then we end up with a doctrine called "Universalism." And knowing you're Reformed that would be unacceptable to you. But that would be the conclusion. And that goes directly against what you believe of the Doctrines of Grace or Calvinism. So, on this alone even without having "non-Hebrew Gentiles" identified in Genesis 15 and 17 the idea of including "non-Hebrew Gentiles" in any of the Hebrew covenants unworkable.

The Greek word "perdition" ("ruin") has three senses in which to understand its use in a verse in context to what's being said. It can mean physical "ruin", or "spiritual "ruin", or eternal "ruin." Knowing this when applied to Judas I can rule out eternal "ruin" because Jesus called Him and NAMED him apostle, and an apostle is someone baptized into the body of Christ, and I know there are no apostles of the Lord in "hell." I can also rule out spiritual "ruin" because the Holy Spirit rested on Jesus throughout His ministry on earth and had not been sent because Jesus also said He can't come until and unless He leaves. So, being that Judas committed suicide and through this act a subsequent event occurred in which his bowels gushed out that Jesus calling him "son of perdition" meant physical "ruin" leading to the conclusion that Judas is as with the other eleven apostles and with the Lord today.

I said that to say this. God keeps His promises. He's not a liar. God promised through a succession of covenants to redeem, deliver, and save those who are in covenant with Him, meaning the Hebrew/Jewish people. Saul said, "And ALL Israel shall be saved" thus supporting that God keeps His promises and those in covenant - every Hebrew born into the world - will be saved.
Including those God killed through Moses after the Golden calf incident. They were in covenant. They were the children of Israel. And God killed them physically to get them "out of the way" and as a warning to everyone else that didn't pay homage to the 48-carat calf.

So, no, I don't reject the truth. I love the truth. It forms and informs everything about my life. I'm a child of truth being taught the word of truth by the Spirit of Truth about the God is Truth. I hate liars and I love the truth.
If you were to love the truth and received the Word of Truth as written rightly divided, and believed Scripture cannot be broken and that the Hebrew Scripture Genesis to Malachi is the Word of God and that anyone or any writing that does not contradict the Hebrew Scripture is to be received as God's truth to the believer, then we'd be on the same thing on everything.
But we're not and that is because one of us is deceived or believing lies or hasn't allowed the Scripture to tell you what to believe rather than you tell the Word of God what to say.

One of us is wrong and it is not moi.

 

[Arial]

No, I can't read minds, not perfectly, but I can see hearts.

I have news for you. Only God can see a heart.

That can never happen if the little children belong to God.

Right. So no matter how hard you try, you cannot do it.

Impossible. The Shepherd will feed His sheep. No one can prevent that.

Not even you and your perverted, twisted, ungodly way of adding to and taking away from Scripture. You fool no one.

Do you know who it is that places a person in Christ through faith? Read John 3. It is the Holy Spirit Himself. Do you know what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is? It is saying that the work that Christ does by the Holy Spirit is of done by the devil. Or the work that the Holy Spirit does is not done.

Matt 12:31-31 Therefore I tell you, ever sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Gen 22:18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.

Ps 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the lord, and all the families of the nations will worship before You.

Is 49:6 He says,"It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations so that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.

Is 60:3 "Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.

Eph 3:6 ----that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,---

Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Acts 11:1 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.

Romans 9:24----even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

ETC ETC ETC

 

[Musicmaster]

No, I can't read minds, not perfectly, but I can see hearts.

This statement is such a textbook example of narcissism...

What could ever have given you the idea that you can see into the hearts of others as only Yah can see?

Oh, well, if your fall-back position is to speak of the wickedness of each and every human heart, including yours, then that's a no-brainer, and doesn't say anything at all that's revelatory!

So, please do elaborate on your comment before I'm forced to see the label of "narcissist" actually sticking to you.

MM

 

[Arial]

Well, I know of individuals who think they are without sin and can carry a stone in one hand ready to sling it, and I know groups of people who think they are without sin and three or four of these people carrying that millstone ready to drop it on a true born Christian on the ground. He's on the ground because they caught him on his knees paying and immediately attacked him. It has to do with accountability. If I warn them and they don't listen, then I'm "covered." If I warn them and they do listen, then they're "covered."

That is the epitome of everything in Proverbs that it says about, fools, the arrogant, the hard hearted, the stubborn, the rebellious, the insolent, the liar. It is also irrelevant to what I posted. It is nothing more that self deception and self defense. And a failed attempt at being clever.

I disagree, Arial. I'm not the one who breaks Scripture in order to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant when the Scripture clearly states the covenant is with Abraham and his seed, a covenant where there is no mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles at all.

Of course you disagree. So what? Does that make you right? And you are the one who breaks Scripture. You have been shown with Scripture every time you break it. And every time, you simply ignore those scriptures and comment with a red herring, a straw man, or something completely irrelevant.

In Genesis God clearly identifies who is in this covenant: Abram the Hebrew and his seed.

There are two parts of the same covenant made with Abraham. One for possession of the land with God as their God. And even then they were meant to take His revelation to the Gentiles who believed there were many gods and did not know of the one true and living God. And the other that began with Gen 3 and the seed of the woman who would crush the destroyer's head. That is the goal of the covenant with Noah and the covenant of faith counted as righteousness with Abraham that was for all creation and all nations. I have attempted to go over this before, but you don't like it, it makes too much sense, is too obviously correct, and puts the ax at the root of this tree you are presenting. Therefore, it never gets discussed and is ignored---probably not even read, as it seems the only voice you are interested in is your own.

You present a teeny tiny God who, even though He is the creator of all, doesn't give a flying bug about anything but Abraham's DNA. A god who is poised in fury to wipe every Gentile off the face of the earth. So tell me---why didn't He do that long ago, as soon as Moses brought the people out of Egypt? Why would He need to send His son to die on the cross in order to do that? He had His kingdom when He created Israel according to you. And all those other nations, He hated. (And I say people who He brought out of Egypt, because they were not all descendants of Abraham, they were not all Hebrews. Read your Bible. Something else you completely fail to acknowledge.)

If God wanted or intended non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant He would clearly say "non-Hebrew Gentiles" and then we end up with a doctrine called "Universalism." And knowing you're Reformed that would be unacceptable to you. But that would be the conclusion. And that goes directly against what you believe of the Doctrines of Grace or Calvinism. So, on this alone even without having "non-Hebrew Gentiles" identified in Genesis 15 and 17 the idea of including "non-Hebrew Gentiles" in any of the Hebrew covenants unworkable.

What a conglomeration of illogical thinking! What He DID clearly say, and I posted many of those scriptures in post # 265, plus the ones other posters have given you, and that have been given in various of your ant-Gentile racist post by many posters as well as myself, is that He has made of the two, Israel and Gentile nations, one. That there is no partiality in that regard (Acts with the account of Cornelius) and that Jew and Gentile alike are redeemed in the same way. Through faith in the person and work of Christ.

How do you conclude that would create universalism. What a crock. A remnant of Jews are saved. A remnant of Gentiles are saved. According to the election of God and predestining those individuals to come to Christ in faith. Non-Hebrews are identified in Gen, under the heading "all nations" will be blessed. And they are identified in Romans, and Galatians, which was written to Gentiles, (and other places) as belonging to Christ through faith.

The Greek word "perdition" ("ruin") has three senses in which to understand its use in a verse in context to what's being said. It can mean physical "ruin", or "spiritual "ruin", or eternal "ruin." Knowing this when applied to Judas I can rule out eternal "ruin" because Jesus called Him and NAMED him apostle, and an apostle is someone baptized into the body of Christ, and I know there are no apostles of the Lord in "hell." I can also rule out spiritual "ruin" because the Holy Spirit rested on Jesus throughout His ministry on earth and had not been sent because Jesus also said He can't come until and unless He leaves. So, being that Judas committed suicide and through this act a subsequent event occurred in which his bowels gushed out that Jesus calling him "son of perdition" meant physical "ruin" leading to the conclusion that Judas is as with the other eleven apostles and with the Lord today.

What in the world does this have to do with anything being discussed. Not to mention it is total nonsense, nowhere found in Scripture.

I said that to say this. God keeps His promises. He's not a liar. God promised through a succession of covenants to redeem, deliver, and save those who are in covenant with Him, meaning the Hebrew/Jewish people

It doesn't say any covenant is with Hebrew-Jewish people. He has a covenant with Israel and ALL who are in it. Re-read the scripture I gave you in Numbers. And that covenant with Israel was provisional on their keeping their side of the covenant agreement. Did they do so? God has a covenant with whoever He chooses to covenant with, and He tells us He has a covenant with Christ and in Christ for all who believe.

Saul said, "And ALL Israel shall be saved" thus supporting that God keeps His promises and those in covenant - every Hebrew born into the world - will be saved.
Including those God killed through Moses after the Golden calf incident. They were in covenant. They were the children of Israel. And God killed them physically to get them "out of the way" and as a warning to everyone else that didn't pay homage to the 48-carat calf.

Actually Paul said that. He also says a remnant will be saved so I suggest to find a way to justify those two statements with one another, and do so without saying Paul contradicts himself (which would mean he was not inspired by the Holy Spirit). And then tell me why you pick one of those statements over the other, instead of doing the exegetical, work of rightly dividing the word of God. And if what you say about the rebellious covenant breaking Israelites is true, and only Hebrews matter to God,--------why send Jesus to die on the cross?! How can they have faith if they are dead in unbelief already?

So, no, I don't reject the truth. I love the truth. It forms and informs everything about my life. I'm a child of truth being taught the word of truth by the Spirit of Truth about the God is Truth. I hate liars and I love the truth.

You do reject the truth. You have made that evident to everyone on here. And if I were you, I would quit equating the ungodly, unscriptural things you say as having come from the Holy Spirit.

If you were to love the truth and received the Word of Truth as written rightly divided, and believed Scripture cannot be broken and that the Hebrew Scripture Genesis to Malachi is the Word of God and that anyone or any writing that does not contradict the Hebrew Scripture is to be received as God's truth to the believer, then we'd be on the same thing on everything.

I do love the truth. You have no truth in this matter. You run from it with blinders firmly in place and hands over your ears. It has been proven to you, with the Scripture you say you do not break. You have no idea how to rightly divide the word, and though I am not perfect at it, and no one is, I at least value its importance and do the work necessary to rightly divide it. At least I know what that MEANS! Why would I want to be on the same thing as you (as you put it)? I am a Gentile, with no Hebrew blood, and I base my assurance of salvation on what I believe about Jesus. I don't, as you do, being a Gentile, then say well then I DO HAVE Abraham's DNA and THAT is why I believe. According to you, there is no hope for me.

But we're not and that is because one of us is deceived or believing lies or hasn't allowed the Scripture to tell you what to believe rather than you tell the Word of God what to say.

One of us is wrong and it is not moi.

Also known as an arrogant right fighter who cannot conceive of the possibility of ever being wrong. So he just says he is right and deceives himself. If you are allowing the Scripture to tell you what to believe, why do you run from so much of it when it is put right in front of you?

 

[Musicmaster]

Some better look out...I'm judging...but ONLY because Yahshuah commanded that we judge:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Those who are too feeble or who harbor false humility, they should not do this. It tends to wear down the bone in the spinal column...!

MM

 

[Arial]

Some better look out...I'm judging...but ONLY because Yahshuah commanded that we judge:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Those who are too feeble or who harbor false humility, they should not do this. It tends to wear down the bone in the spinal column...!

MM

Who is this addressed to?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, is writing to churches that have both Jew and Gentile, born again believers. It is deceptive to isolate scriptures as you do, claim things that are obviously not true--such as your previous claim that all the NT letters are written to Jews only. And the churches in northern Galatia were Gentile.

God has no covenant with Gentiles. It's a Jewish covenant with a Jewish Messiah and Jewish land and a Jewish people. The writings of Matthew to Revelation were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians. The whole bible is of Hebrew origin and records the history, culture, religion, etc., of the Hebrew people. After Pentecost many newborn Jewish Christians were the ones to found Jewish Churches in all these places the letters were written to. It may have a few Gentiles, but these are Jew-Gentile offspring, Samaritan-type who are Abraham's seed and therefore a people who lived as Gentiles and were uncircumcised which identifies the circumcision issue resulting in the Jerusalem Council in A.D. 50, a council that was populated and chaired by Jews. How did James address the first letter to Jewish Christians? "To the twelve tribes scattered."
The 'book' of Hebrews is written to Hebrews. The Revelation contains everything Hebrew from a Temple to practices, to locations, to the twelve tribes, and Jewish prophecies.
The problem is that after the destruction of the Jewish Temple and the scattering of the Jews and Jewish Christians that these unlearned Jew-Gentiles only knew Gentile upbringing and couldn't maintain a Jewish heritage to a 'religion' they found themselves in.
This response applies to your other comments below.

There is external historic evidence, but let's look only at the internal evidence.

This letter was written to deal with a specific problem; that of agitators, likely Jewish. The zeal of these agitators likely reflects Jewish pressure and pride. They attacked Paul personally (4:17); preached a distorted form of Christianity (1:6.7); their gospel required circumcision for salvation (6:12). It is because the Galatians were were uncircumcised Gentiles that the agitators insisted that they not only believe Christ for salvation, but also be circumcised for salvation (2:3-5; 5:2, 6,11; 6:12,13,15).

4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Since Paul is writing to Gentiles, it cannot mean that only those born under the Mosaic Law are redeemed. So either he is referring to, though Christ was born under the Law, and was therefore obligated to keep it, and did, He is also identified with sinners who are under the curse of the Law. The discussion at this point in the letter is circumcision, and whether or not it is necessary for Gentiles to be circumcised in order to be saved. All are sinners, and all are obligated to keep God's law---not the legal document, which only applies to Jews, as it was given to them, but the moral code that is law, summarized in the ten commandments. Making applicable that all are under the curse of the law.

This is made evident when in verse 6, Paul says to the Gentiles who are recipients of this letter,as shown above, ANd because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" 7.So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

An heir is in a covenant relationship with God. Children are in a covenant relationship with their father.

Children have no covenant with their parents. There is no "marriage ceremony" or any other ritual entered into between a babe and parents. That's preposterous. Are there any official ceremonies today or in the past where the parents make covenant with their babies? I never seen nor heard of any, and if you have ignorant parents of the world that do such WOKE things it is definitely not biblical. What kind of nonsense is that? God never called His people to do such a thing. ONLY the marriage covenant exists and that is until death. Is there anything you espouse in the Law? Did Jesus command it? NO. He did not.

Further internal evidence that Galatians is written to Gentiles.

4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. This would not apply to Jews.

1:16 {God} was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles---

As I said, the letters were written to Jews and Jewish Christians. If there were Gentiles these are the seed of Abraham but also Gentile.
And if Samaritan-type half-Jew half-Gentile, then they lived as Gentile knowing nothing of their heritage, but as half-Jew were not readily accepted as Jew because they were half and half or some dilution. The bottom line is it is a Hebrew Covenant and half-Jew, half-Gentile were very few in number. Very few. And THAT would be the ONLY explanation.

As a side note, if I was married and my wife was having complication in childbirth and doc came in and said they can save only one. Who is the one I say that gets to live?

 

[Mr GLee]

God has no covenant with Gentiles. It's a Jewish covenant with a Jewish Messiah and Jewish land and a Jewish people. The writings of Matthew to Revelation were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians. The whole bible is of Hebrew origin and records the history, culture, religion, etc., of the Hebrew people. After Pentecost many newborn Jewish Christians were the ones to found Jewish Churches in all these places the letters were written to. It may have a few Gentiles, but these are Jew-Gentile offspring, Samaritan-type who are Abraham's seed and therefore a people who lived as Gentiles and were uncircumcised which identifies the circumcision issue resulting in the Jerusalem Council in A.D. 50, a council that was populated and chaired by Jews. How did James address the first letter to Jewish Christians? "To the twelve tribes scattered."

Hi Jerry

No salvation for the pagan gentiles???

Now you sound like Catholicism. Who do claim to be the canon assemblers .

We are the church,. . . the bride of Christ look and watch the venerable puffed up one rise above the non-venerable pew warmers . . show time watchers

They puff up our own selves above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Where do you get the idea God did not make a covenant with the pagan nations sinners ( Gentiles) He did not come to call the self righteous those that hope their dying Hebrew flesh could profit for something ?

1 Corinthian 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men (Hebrew ) above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

 

[Musicmaster]

Who is this addressed to?

It was just a general comment for those out there who know that one verse in the Bible, ripped from its context, that even atheists know and quote all the time, "Judge not..." They seem to never realize that we believers are commanded to judge. The "Judge not" whackos out there who don't know the Bible need this reminder sometimes so that they know we're not called to be a bunch of whimpering wimps.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Hi Jerry

No salvation for the pagan gentiles???

Now you sound like Catholicism. Who do claim to be the canon assemblers .

We are the church,. . . the bride of Christ look and watch the venerable puffed up one rise above the non-venerable pew warmers . . show time watchers

They puff up our own selves above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Where do you get the idea God did not make a covenant with the pagan nations sinners ( Gentiles) He did not come to call the self righteous those that hope their dying Hebrew flesh could profit for something ?

1 Corinthian 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men (Hebrew ) above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Good points you made there. I have some in my Israeli family lineage who are of that pharisaical mindset. When they speak of my Gentile friends and family, they always do so with a sneer in facial expression and speech.

Yahshuah, when I asked it of Him, gave to me the love that Paul had for the Gentiles to whom he was sent to minister, and I have come to love my Gentile friends and work mates more than many in my Jewish family who have such disdain for Gentiles with their having such sparkle and glitter in their eyes for our rabbi's who are no better than the Islamic imams out there who teach hate for non-muslims to those willing to sit under their tutelage.

The bandwagon spirit is very strong. Always has been. Always will be.

MM

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have news for you. Only God can see a heart.

Not true. The Lord instructs us in knowing a person's heart, because out of it flow the issues of life and as believers, we need to know the life we deal with in all our interactions with others so that we might rightly judge.
How else can we judge between right and wrong, good and evil, true and false? We are instructed in these things and called to exercise these judgments not only about doctrine but people also.

Knowing the correct doctrine and understanding of Scripture allows us to discern a person's body, soul, and spirit.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Heb 4:12–13.

And then there is this. Jesus instructing (teaching) how to discern a heart (which doesn't mean the proverbial heart as in organ, but the life of the person):

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Mt 12:33–37.

Verse 37 does not apply only to the Lord as Judge. What comes out of the mouth of a person serves to 'condemn' him (or her) or it serves to justify them, that the words from a person's 'heart' reveals what's in their soul and spirit, a person's heart.

Right. So no matter how hard you try, you cannot do it.

Nope. But I don't try to "deceive or lead others astray." When I say the same thing as God none of that occurs. It serves another purpose. One in that God's Word serves to edify, or it serves to judge the person. The Word of God by its very nature does these two things. Whether it is written or comes out of my mouth. There is no difference.

Not even you and your perverted, twisted, ungodly way of adding to and taking away from Scripture. You fool no one.

They thought the same about Martin Luther.
When truth comes forward into the light it comes in 'whispers' so that he that hath an ear to hear hears while the deaf and dumb can't even hear it even if shouted from the rooftops.

Do you know who it is that places a person in Christ through faith? Read John 3. It is the Holy Spirit Himself.

I agree.

Do you know what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is? It is saying that the work that Christ does by the Holy Spirit is of done by the devil. Or the work that the Holy Spirit does is not done.

That's the typical Gentile textbook answer but it is incorrect.
The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not a sin of the tongue, but of the 'heart' (life.)
The Ministry of the Holy Spirit is to apply the salvation bought by the Son upon a person in this world. This, He does upon an elect person whose name is in the 'book' of life of the lamb slain. It is the presence of a person who is not elected to salvation that offends the HOLY Spirit. And He can do nothing about it. The presence of an unatoned, unclean reprobate person in the same world as the Holy Spirit is offensive to Him but it is the longsuffering of God that permits Him to endure their presence before His Holy Personhood and so it is the life, not the tongue that blasphemes Him and it is the tongue that expresses the condition of the unelected 'heart' life of the individual. Life and death are in the power of the tongue and the presence of an elect person - saved at the time or for a future appointed time the Holy Spirit is pleased, but for the non-elect there is only restrained wrath until the Day of the Lord.
Sin and blasphemy of the elect will be forgiven them because that is the Ministry of the Son in coming into this world, but the sin and blasphemy of the non-elect will not be forgiven them because by virtue of them not being named in the 'book' of life of the lamb slain it is impossible.

Matt 12:31-31 Therefore I tell you, ever sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Gen 22:18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.

Ps 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the lord, and all the families of the nations will worship before You.

Is 49:6 He says,"It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations so that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.

Is 60:3 "Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.

Eph 3:6 ----that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,---

Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Acts 11:1 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.

Romans 9:24----even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

ETC ETC ETC

There are "nations" that refer to the nation of Israel and the "nations" that refer to the Hebrew, non-covenant people such as the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, both the seed of Abraham and called "nations" to whom the Promise did not apply to. These are the "nations" that "come out of thee" (Abraham.)
And then there is the non-Hebrew "nations" that are not the seed of Abram the Hebrew or his ancestor Shem, but of Japheth and Ham. These "nations" do NOT "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:6.

There were half-Hebrew and half-Egyptian (nations - Ishmael), and fully Hebrew (Esau) but through whom the Promise did not apply "nations" (Esau.) And through both of these descendants "kings" came out of as well as "kings" come out of the twelve tribes.

 

[Arial]

It was just a general comment for those out there who know that one verse in the Bible, ripped from its context, that even atheists know and quote all the time, "Judge not..." They seem to never realize that we believers are commanded to judge. The "Judge not" whackos out there who don't know the Bible need this reminder sometimes so that they know we're not called to be a bunch of whimpering wimps.

MM

Yes.We are in fact called to contend for the faith. (Jude) The word translated contend is a military term expressing hand to hand combat.

 

[Musicmaster]

God has no covenant with Gentiles. It's a Jewish covenant with a Jewish Messiah and Jewish land and a Jewish people. The writings of Matthew to Revelation were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians. The whole bible is of Hebrew origin and records the history, culture, religion, etc., of the Hebrew people. After Pentecost many newborn Jewish Christians were the ones to found Jewish Churches in all these places the letters were written to. It may have a few Gentiles, but these are Jew-Gentile offspring, Samaritan-type who are Abraham's seed and therefore a people who lived as Gentiles and were uncircumcised which identifies the circumcision issue resulting in the Jerusalem Council in A.D. 50, a council that was populated and chaired by Jews. How did James address the first letter to Jewish Christians? "To the twelve tribes scattered."

(yawn) Oh, that is so boringly warped! It smacks of the very spirit that led Israel to fail so miserably at being the light to the word Yah called us all to be as a nation. Paul wrote of His ministry and love for our Gentile brethren because our evil and wicked forefathers chose to have Yahshuah, THE Messiah, crucified rather than to follow Him as they should.

So, yes, salvation is of the Jews. True enough. However, that was never meant to be a fecal pie to be rubbed in the faces of all Gentiles.

In case you haven't figured it out, which you obviously haven't, ALL who are in Christ have no distinction any longer as being Jew or Gentile. That distinction falls away. Yes, the Gospel of the Kingdom is still intact for us Jews because of the covenant made with our forefather Abraham, but that doesn't make us better than others. The remnant Jews who will be nearly wiped off the face of this earth at the end of the tribulation will have to be beaten to a pulp before they finally realize that we murdered our Mashiach. We should hang our heads in shame rather than to continue along this vein of ignorant pride!

Your attitude toward our Gentile brethren is a shameful display with which I will not have any part. We ALL owe one another the debt of love, not disdain and prideful elevation of which we are not worthy. We should leave that crap to the Hebrew Roots gangs out there who like to think that they're elevated above others on the basis of their Gentile identity with adherence to Torah. The hypocrisy of any and all belief that any one of us can obey Torah is a pathetic display self pride that's so ugly and revolting. They pick and choose the bits and pieces of the Law that they FEEL is relevant for us today as requirement.

All this only reinforces for me why Yah hates human pride. It's indeed among the most ugly of sins.

MM

 

[Arial]

Not true. The Lord instructs us in knowing a person's heart, because out of it flow the issues of life and as believers, we need to know the life we deal with in all our interactions with others so that we might rightly judge.
How else can we judge between right and wrong, good and evil, true and false? We are instructed in these things and called to exercise these judgments not only about doctrine but people also.

Jesus was not talking about a person knowing another's heart. He was talking about the source of our sin. ANd we are to discern good from evil, truth from a lie, and that weighed against God's righteousness. All men are born a being with a heart against God by way of Adam. And in case you hadn't noticed during your tenure in this world, people are quite capable of masking an evil heart with soft voices, kind words, and good deeds.

Only God sees into the heart of a man, and only God changes the heart of a man from being at enmity with Him to loving Him. And a person filled with hate towards an entire "Gentile" population does not have the love of God in them. 1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. Before you confuse my understanding of "love" in those verses with the thing you evidently believe is the highest of insults, "woke", it is not a mushy feeling, but an attitude. Recognizing actual racism when it flaunts itself, is not "woke."

If you have to judge between right and wrong, good and evil, true and false, by peering into a person's heart, then you have only yourself and what you think and believe, with which to make that judgement. Disagreeing with your take on Scripture---which is a hateful one---as the basis, is a complete lack of discernment.

Knowing the correct doctrine and understanding of Scripture allows us to discern a person's body, soul, and spirit.

We are not even called to discern someone else's body soul, and spirit. Where do you get such an atrocious idea? That is in God's wheelhouse alone. You do not even allow the Scripture itself to correct you when you present, what to me, is THE most distorted gospel I have ever heard. The difference between what you are doing and what others are doing, including myself, is that we show you with Scripture in what way you are distorting the scriptures you give. Whereas you just repeat the same scriptures and are not able to show us in what way we are distorting anything. You simply ignore those scriptures, accuse us of breaking the word of God, and say that you are not. Even right in the face of the evidence that you are. There are liars like that. Caught red handed in the lie, with the evidence of the lie handed to them, they never admit to the lie, but continue to say it is not a lie.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Mt 12:33–37.

Verse 37 does not apply only to the Lord as Judge. What comes out of the mouth of a person serves to 'condemn' him (or her) or it serves to justify them, that the words from a person's 'heart' reveals what's in their soul and spirit, a person's heart.

Yes it does apply to only the Lord as Judge. The whole point of redemption is for sinful man to be justified before GOD---not man.