A problem with premillennialism

[Arial]

God has no covenant with Gentiles.

Yes He does. The difficulty with understanding that (benefit of the doubt) is an incorrect understanding of what a covenant is. What is erroneously presented is that something isn't a covenant in God's economy, unless there is the word "covenant" stated, a formal drawing up of the covenant with a ceremony. Scripture shows clearly the intent of the formal covenant relationship with the nation of Israel. It precedes that covenant as far back as Gen 3, and is a part of the Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic covenant. It never went away.

Gal 3:16-18 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring.It does not say,"And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

23-29 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law,imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew no Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.



In spite of your refusal to accept it, Galatians was written to Gentile Christians. The above is a covenant. It is the New Covenant made with Jew and Gentile.

As to your claim that the covenant made with Abraham and Israel was not made with any Gentiles: Gen 17:9-13 And God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house o bought with your money from a any foreigner who is not of your offspring, but he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised.

Now be a gentleman and don't ignore those scriptures but actually address them in relation to what you have said about covenants and Gentiles.

 

[Arial]

It may have a few Gentiles, but these are Jew-Gentile offspring, Samaritan-type who are Abraham's seed and therefore a people who lived as Gentiles and were uncircumcised which identifies the circumcision issue resulting in the Jerusalem Council in A.D. 50, a council that was populated and chaired by Jews.

You have nothing given in Scripture to base that on. It is as much conjecture that states only those with the DNA of Abraham through Isaac are atoned for by Christ. And therefore imagines, that they do have this DNA, even though it cannot be traced.

Children have no covenant with their parents. There is no "marriage ceremony" or any other ritual entered into between a babe and parents. That's preposterous. Are there any official ceremonies today or in the past where the parents make covenant with their babies? I never seen nor heard of any, and if you have ignorant parents of the world that do such WOKE things it is definitely not biblical. What kind of nonsense is that? God never called His people to do such a thing. ONLY the marriage covenant exists and that is until death. Is there anything you espouse in the Law? Did Jesus command it? NO. He did not.

Why do you quote that entire section and only respond to the last short sentence? Is it to give the appearance that you are actually addressing the whole thing?
You do not know what a covenant is, even though I have explained it and shown you from Scripture, countless times in countless places. You ignore it while claiming that you know all about covenants.

It is a relationship that binds two or more parties together. When it comes to parent and child having no covenantal relationship, you make evident that you give no consideration to God as to the order of creation. His relationship to His creation is covenantal the second He creates. Everything is under Him and obligated to function as He commands. Animals and nature do that through instinct that He gave them. A mother and father bird build a nest together. They share in incubating the eggs. They share in feeding the young, teaching them build their strength to fly, send them out of the nest when it is time, and continue to watch over and care for them until they can take care of themselves.

What is the order of creation concerning humanity. To care for and tend the creation, according the righteousness with which they were created---His righteousness. The order of one man, one woman, in union as one flesh-- united, with specific roles, is instituted. And from that comes the family, with its obligations and duties, love being at the core of it. The fact that mankind breaks all of these relationships or does not do them righteously or rightly, does not change the fact that the covenant relationship exists. (BTW the marital relationship between Adam and Eve, had not ceremony, as you seem to think is necessary.

And you are wrong again when you say that the children parent relationship is not a covenant one because there is no official ceremony. There are legal documents that bind child and parent, in both the Ten Commandments and in human terms.

A birth certificate is issued, listing both parents and the child, signed by the state and the parents. This is a legal document, and in keeping with the laws of the land, parents have certain obligations to the child. These obligations are subject to legal penalties and even removal of the child from the parents, if these obligations are not met. The higher authority in these matters is God. And the fact of failure on the part of the parents to fulfill these obligations is often never brought to the attention of the governing authorities, or failure of the governing authorities to do their job, matters not one whit.

If a child is given up for adoption, legal documents are set in place, and signed. The adoptive parents become the legal parents, with the same obligations as the natural parents would have.

 

[Arial]

Nope. But I don't try to "deceive or lead others astray." When I say the same thing as God none of that occurs. It serves another purpose. One in that God's Word serves to edify, or it serves to judge the person. The Word of God by its very nature does these two things. Whether it is written or comes out of my mouth. There is no difference.

Self proclamation. Meaningless given what we see you post and show to be false.

They thought the same about Martin Luther.
When truth comes forward into the light it comes in 'whispers' so that he that hath an ear to hear hears while the deaf and dumb can't even hear it even if shouted from the rooftops

Irrelevant to the conversation. Meaningless.

I agree.

And yet, even though Jesus tells us no one knows who the Holt Spirit will re-birth in Christ, anymore than they do the wind, you tell us you do know. You say only to those who have Abraham's DNA. You do not speak what God speaks as you claim. You speak FOR Him.

That's the typical Gentile textbook answer but it is incorrect.

There is no such thing as Gentile textbook, and no such thing as a typical Gentile, and no such thing as a Gentile answer. The fact that this is the only thing you have to fall back on, shows you have nothing in the way of concrete, irrefutable evidence for your claims.

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not a sin of the tongue, but of the 'heart' (life.)

But didn't you just quote Jesus as saying that what is in the heart is what comes out of the mouth? And when Jesus spoke to them about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, wasn't it because of what they said?

The Ministry of the Holy Spirit is to apply the salvation bought by the Son upon a person in this world.

Yes.

It is the presence of a person who is not elected to salvation that offends the HOLY Spirit. And He can do nothing about it. The presence of an unatoned, unclean reprobate person in the same world as the Holy Spirit is offensive to Him but it is the longsuffering of God that permits Him to endure their presence before His Holy Personhood and so it is the life, not the tongue that blasphemes Him and it is the tongue that expresses the condition of the unelected 'heart' life of the individual.

That is a bunch of irrelevant and untrue gibberish. But when you say it is the life and not the tongue that blasphemes the Holy Spirit you are making a distinction where there is none. And blaspheming the Holy Spirit, as given by Jesus in His word, which cannot be broken, is very specific. Something I presented, and you skated right past thinking I would not notice.

Sin and blasphemy of the elect will be forgiven them because that is the Ministry of the Son in coming into this world, but the sin and blasphemy of the non-elect will not be forgiven them because by virtue of them not being named in the 'book' of life of the lamb slain it is impossible.

We were talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit and what that consists of. Shall I remind you? It consists of claiming that what the Holy Spirit is doing is really being done by the devil. Conversely, claiming that what the Holy Spirit has done, has not been done. The Holy Spirit regenerates all the elect of God, and the Bible says the elect are from all nations, ethnic groups, types of people.

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Luke 24:47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in is name too all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem.
Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations will be blessed in you."

 

[Arial]

There are "nations" that refer to the nation of Israel and the "nations" that refer to the Hebrew, non-covenant people such as the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, both the seed of Abraham and called "nations" to whom the Promise did not apply to. These are the "nations" that "come out of thee" (Abraham.)
And then there is the non-Hebrew "nations" that are not the seed of Abram the Hebrew or his ancestor Shem, but of Japheth and Ham. These "nations" do NOT "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

That is not a biblical conclusion. It is a mental construct and blockage that reads into the scriptures so it fits with the prejudice that you have against Gentiles. Do you think you are doing God a favor by doing that. That it will make Him love you more than those "disgusting Gentiles" who need to be wiped off the face of the earth, and that you say God is going to do, even those He gave to Christ by way of the Holy Spirit and faith?

What it is, this distorted view of the person and work of Christ, is bowing down, not to God, but to DNA.

 

[Arial]

As a side note, if I was married and my wife was having complication in childbirth and doc came in and said they can save only one. Who is the one I say that gets to live?

Gosh, I don't know. I can neither read your mind nor see into your heart. But in the same vein --- Have you stopped beating your wife?

 

[Tambora]

God taking a people from among the Gentiles is correct for that is where He scattered His people - among the Gentiles.

Foolish man, there was no Israel when God chose Abraham.
Abraham was chosen from the existing Nations/Gentiles.
Abraham was chosen to confirm a covenant that would include the Nations/Gentiles.

Acts 3:25 LEB​

(25) You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed.'​

Quoted from:

Genesis 12:3 LEB​

(3) And I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse. And all families of the earth will be blessed in you."​

You may not want Gentiles included, but God does.

 

[EarlyActs]

Foolish man, there was no Israel when God chose Abraham.
Abraham was chosen from the existing Nations/Gentiles.
Abraham was chosen to confirm a covenant that would include the Nations/Gentiles.

Acts 3:25 LEB​

(25) You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed.'​

Quoted from:

Genesis 12:3 LEB​

(3) And I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse. And all families of the earth will be blessed in you."​

You may not want Gentiles included, but God does.

The Israel that already was there, was those who believed. Sorry you are not familiar with such a basic concept of the Bible. It may sound like 12:3 was about the race-nation, but it was about Christ, per the NT.

 

[jeremiah1five]

(yawn) Oh, that is so boringly warped! It smacks of the very spirit that led Israel to fail so miserably at being the light to the word Yah called us all to be as a nation.

The ONLY Christian nation is Israel.
Scripture records the failings of the people, their idol worshiping, their disobedience, their unfaithfulness, but the same applies to Gentiles as well. And being the "light of the world" is for a future time. But it doesn't matter ultimately Israel's unfaithfulness, what matters is the God is a faithful God and will keep covenant with Israel forever. Israel is in the Lord's hand. Jesus is the Shepherd in John 10 and Israel are His sheep.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
Jn 10:26–29.

It doesn't apply to Gentiles because Jesus is speaking to Jews. Jesus is in the Temple and He just healed a blind man and gave him sight. Jesus is speaking to Jews.

This is what Jesus told the Gentile woman:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mt 15:23–24.

It applies to Gentiles then and it applies to Gentiles now. The Holy Word of God is given to Israel, from the Holy Law of God to the Holy Word of God sent to covenant Israel. That is the sin of Gentiles, to take what God gave to Hebrew Israel and stole it to make it apply to them. When and IF you come to the knowledge of the truth things will change for you. Until that day comes, you'll continue to be part of the inheritance theft of Gentiles
against Israel. Funny thing is that Gentiles before Jesus' time weren't trying to steal anything that belonged to Israel. Gentiles ALL KNEW that the Jews religion belonged to Jews. Gentiles were happy in their idol worship of thousands of idols, one of the stone, one for the crops, one for the trees, one for the earth, one for the weather, etc. Gentile theft of everything God gave to Israel by way of covenant and prophecy was stolen AFTER Israel's destruction, but not before. I wonder why. Well, not really, I know why. Thou shalt not steal.
Gentile theft of everything that God gave Israel reminds me of these immigrants illegally coming into the U.S. How they cry for American law to protect them and allow them to be here, and yet their first act in being here is the breaking of the law.

Paul wrote of His ministry and love for our Gentile brethren because our evil and wicked forefathers chose to have Yahshuah,

Honestly, before I call anyone "brethren" or "brother" or "sister" I make sure we have the same Father. But Gentiles fall over themselves in trying to outdo each other in loving the unsaved that they join Christ to their sinful lifestyle by calling them "brother" or "sister." We all will give an account as to what comes out of our mouths. Disobedient Gentile Christians I grew up with who do not obey God or His Christ are the first ones to claim to love Christ and then do not do what He says.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Lk 6:46.

Brethren are those who have the same Father and to call unsaved people "brother" who have only ONE father is a sin against God's holiness. Sheep and serpents do NOT have the same father.

So, yes, salvation is of the Jews. True enough. However, that was never meant to be a fecal pie to be rubbed in the faces of all Gentiles.

No, really, it was meant to be solely for the Jews. They are the ones in covenant with God, NOT Gentiles.

In case you haven't figured it out, which you obviously haven't, ALL who are in Christ have no distinction any longer as being Jew or Gentile. That distinction falls away.

Distinction: Twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel.
Distinction: Hebrew male and female.
Distinction: True-born Hebrews (Jews) and half-Jew, half-Gentile Samaritans.
Distinction: Those born slave and those born free (think Ishmael and Isaac.)
Distinction: Ten tribes making up a northern kingdom, and two tribes making up a southern kingdom.

Christ, King of the Jews makes attempt at healing the kingdom animosities and hatred that still existed between the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom and their argument as to who really was to succeed Solomon after he died. Rehoboam or Jeroboam. And Jesus does it here in these words:

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Mt 5:43–48.

The original instruction and command on love was given by God to the children of Israel when they were one people in the desert after being delivered by God out of Egypt. Read it in Leviticus 19:1-18. Brother is a member of the same tribe; neighbor is member of different tribe living next to other tribes surrounding the Tabernacle. When Jesus Christ, King of the Jews returns He will unite the tribes and lead them as a Shepherd does his flock. Any non-Hebrew Gentiles that survive His Coming will live in the four corners of the earth while the Jews finally enjoy their Promised Land excluding all Gentiles for Christ Himself will purge the Hebrew land of ALL non-Hebrew Gentiles. This is prophesied. This is Bible.

Those that are "all are one in Christ" applies to the Hebrew people, young and old, free and slave, male, and female, Jew and half-Jew Gentile.

Yes, the Gospel of the Kingdom is still intact for us Jews because of the covenant made with our forefather Abraham,

Where do you get "our" from? Our forefather? Are you Jewish/Hebrew? Which tribe?

We should hang our heads in shame rather than to continue along this vein of ignorant pride!

Right now, Israel is enjoying its greatest success and prosperity. I'd say that is a sign of blessing not cursing. You need to update your biased thinking against God's Chosen. What God is more concerned with is their repentance, and like the father in the story of the Prodigal Son, their Father is looking up the road waiting for his son's return. Then what happens? they kill the fatted calf, they receive the righteousness of God, and a ring is place in their fingers representing authority to return as God's son to oversee His kingdom. THEN they will be a light to the blind Gentiles so they can find God through the darkness of their blindness.

Your attitude toward our Gentile brethren is a shameful display with which I will not have any part.

I have no Gentile brethren. If Gentiles were my brethren our father would be Satan and the Devil. The Jews have God as their Father. Anyone who is their brethren would be someone of the same tribe. So, don't confuse the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman (Israel - Rev. 12.) These two do not have the same Father. You have the twelve tribes of Israel (Rev. 6), and in the other corner you have the seed of the serpent. Don't 'knock' me because I have rightly divided the Word of truth.

We ALL owe one another the debt of love, not disdain and prideful elevation of which we are not worthy.

The only people that receive Godly love from me are those who have God as their Father. Gentiles do not have God as their father. Christ wasn't born to Gentile parents. He was born to Hebrew parents, and this joins Almighty God to the Hebrew people. Gentiles do not have such a relationship to Almighty God as the Jews do.

We should leave that crap to the Hebrew Roots gangs out there who like to think that they're elevated above others on the basis of their Gentile identity with adherence to Torah.

I don't have a Gentile identity. Being born again and given the Holy Spirit Promised that was promised to Israel identifies me as being the seed of Abraham. God never promised the Holy Spirit to Gentiles. Jesus, His Son, was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, not to the lost goats of the house of Gentiles.

The hypocrisy of any and all belief that any one of us can obey Torah is a pathetic display self pride that's so ugly and revolting.
All this only reinforces for me why Yah hates human pride. It's indeed among the most ugly of sins.

MM

That's not the reason God hates human pride.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deut 7:5–6.

 

[Tambora]

This thread went way off topic from:

A problem with premillennialism​

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus was not talking about a person knowing another's heart. He was talking about the source of our sin. ANd we are to discern good from evil, truth from a lie, and that weighed against God's righteousness. All men are born a being with a heart against God by way of Adam. And in case you hadn't noticed during your tenure in this world, people are quite capable of masking an evil heart with soft voices, kind words, and good deeds.

Yes, that too.

Only God sees into the heart of a man, and only God changes the heart of a man from being at enmity with Him to loving Him. And a person filled with hate towards an entire "Gentile" population does not have the love of God in them. 1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. Before you confuse my understanding of "love" in those verses with the thing you evidently believe is the highest of insults, "woke", it is not a mushy feeling, but an attitude. Recognizing actual racism when it flaunts itself, is not "woke."

Well, if you want to reject some very important teaching go on ahead. I know I can tell a person's heart by what comes out of the mouths. You're female so your replies will have an emotional bent to it. But we are not supposed to make decisions based on our wicked heart but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. And by what God says we can discern His heart, too. He doesn't lie. He says what He means and means what He says just as I do.

Is it love if a person says things that cause a person to be uncomfortable?
Is it love if a person says things that destroys a person's false belief and bible understanding?
Is it love when a person says things that causes tears?

If you have to judge between right and wrong, good and evil, true and false, by peering into a person's heart, then you have only yourself and what you think and believe, with which to make that judgement. Disagreeing with your take on Scripture---which is a hateful one---as the basis, is a complete lack of discernment.

People are the only ones that are good or evil, right or wrong, true or false. There's nothing evil about a computer. There's nothing evil about a cell phone.
There's nothing evil about a car, or a house, or the moon, or planets. Sinful, yes; but not evil. There is no morality in inanimate things, but there is morality - or lack thereof - in humans.

We are not even called to discern someone else's body soul, and spirit. Where do you get such an atrocious idea?

I believe in healing. Physical, mental, spiritual, soulful healing. A believer who has such a gift would have to "see" the condition of an illness to address it. There is no such thing as "blanket prayers," or for that matter, there's no such thing as blanket forgiveness.

That is in God's wheelhouse alone. You do not even allow the Scripture itself to correct you when you present, what to me, is THE most distorted gospel I have ever heard. The difference between what you are doing and what others are doing, including myself, is that we show you with Scripture in what way you are distorting the scriptures you give. Whereas you just repeat the same scriptures and are not able to show us in what way we are distorting anything. You simply ignore those scriptures, accuse us of breaking the word of God, and say that you are not. Even right in the face of the evidence that you are. There are liars like that. Caught red handed in the lie, with the evidence of the lie handed to them, they never admit to the lie, but continue to say it is not a lie.

Yes it does apply to only the Lord as Judge. The whole point of redemption is for sinful man to be justified before GOD---not man.

Obviously, you do not know what I know. The depth of my knowledge and wisdom is equal to my suffering and grief in life. So, if you don't understand the things I say today it doesn't make me wrong.
Martin Luther was the only man talking about "justification" and he was opposed by the Catholic hierarchy, but it didn't mean he was wrong. And people didn't understand him on what he shared from the Scripture at the time he said it. It took years for those seeds to be watered and IN TIME "justification" is a foundational doctrine in Christianity. But by the time the two witnesses arrive I personally believe what I say on the various matters here that I address will be addressed by them because it deals with Israel and Gentiles. Me? I know what the Lord has given me eyes to see in His Word. I have half a century of study, deep, intimate, study under the anointing. There was a time many years ago I was able to place a blanket on my table, lay out two books - my KJV and a Strong's exhaustive and study for up to sixteen hours a day for weeks on end. Hot tears would stream down my face, and I knew the Lord through His Spirit was teaching me His Word. That was enough for me.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes He does. The difficulty with understanding that (benefit of the doubt) is an incorrect understanding of what a covenant is. What is erroneously presented is that something isn't a covenant in God's economy, unless there is the word "covenant" stated, a formal drawing up of the covenant with a ceremony. Scripture shows clearly the intent of the formal covenant relationship with the nation of Israel. It precedes that covenant as far back as Gen 3, and is a part of the Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic covenant. It never went away.

I all my study and reading of Scripture I find no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture of God having covenant with Gentiles. None. All that is a Gentile false theology and inheritance theft. If there was a covenant between God and Gentiles, then Gentiles wouldn't have to steal Israel's covenants.

Gal 3:16-18 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring.It does not say,"And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

23-29 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law,imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew no Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Speaking (writing) to Jews, those under the Law. Genesis to Revelation is all about the Hebrew people.

In spite of your refusal to accept it, Galatians was written to Gentile Christians. The above is a covenant. It is the New Covenant made with Jew and Gentile.

The Church Christ promised to build He began building on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest. Three thousand Jews were born again that day and thousands every day after that for the next four decades.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. The Times of the Gentiles will end with the destruction of the Gentile nations. If God had covenant with Gentiles, then Gentiles would have their own apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers. They would have their own scripture. There would be mention of pillars in their church. There may even be a Gentile Council to deal with issues in their church. There would be a record of all these Gentile things but there are none. Nada.

The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel. You know the Jeremiah prophecy and he says NOTHING about Gentiles being in the New Covenant. Scripture cannot be broken. No amount of adding to the Jeremiah prophecy will truly show Gentiles in the New Covenant. There's no such thing. Everything that Israel had was stolen after Gentiles destroyed the Jewish Temple and scattered the Jews everywhere throughout the Roman Empire.

As to your claim that the covenant made with Abraham and Israel was not made with any Gentiles: Gen 17:9-13 And God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house o bought with your money from a any foreigner who is not of your offspring, but he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised.

Now be a gentleman and don't ignore those scriptures but actually address them in relation to what you have said about covenants and Gentiles.

The covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and Gentiles do not come from the seed of Abram. Gentiles come from Ham and Japheth. And they were already in existence except God put a dividing line between both groups of people and the sign of this division between good and evil, between Hebrew and Gentile was circumcision. Abraham was born into a family ancestry that was separated to God, was obedient, and was blessed of God.

Those born in Abraham's house, or servants he had were not a part of his covenant because they were not his seed. But "nations" and "kings" did "come out of thee" (Abraham) through Ishmael and Esau. And Abraham may have had other kids through his other wives other than Hagar and Sarai. But it was Isaac, born of two Hebrew parents and to whom the covenant was passed on to after Abraham's death. The same happened to Jacob. Changing his name to Israel was part of God's plan and purpose towards the redemption of the Hebrew people. Christ was sacrificed in accordance with the Mosaic Law and as the animal sacrifice was used to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel the same occurred with Jesus. He was substituted for the animal to take away the sins of the children of Israel eternally.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

Galatians 4:4-5 explains everything necessary in understanding the cross at Calvary. It all has to do with the Jewish people, a people for whom Christ died to atone their sins forever. Verse 5 above says it all.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Gosh, I don't know. I can neither read your mind nor see into your heart. But in the same vein --- Have you stopped beating your wife?

Never married.
I am totally separated to God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Foolish man, there was no Israel when God chose Abraham.

Israel was in his loins.

Abraham was chosen from the existing Nations/Gentiles.

Abraham was a descendant of Shem and of Salah and Eber. From Eber came the Hebrew people and God says so. So, Abraham was not Gentile at all. That is a contradiction of Scripture. Abraham's family line was from the seed of the woman. Gentiles having no relation with God nor ant covenant was the seed of the serpent. Keep studying. There is a great deal to learn.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

Now, say it after me..."Abram was Hebrew."

You see, God WANTS us to know Abraham was Hebrew. Accept it. It's Bible.
If you don't then you're not honest with God and His Word.

Abraham was chosen to confirm a covenant that would include the Nations/Gentiles.

Acts 3:25 LEB​

(25) You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed.'​

Quoted from:

Genesis 12:3 LEB​

(3) And I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse. And all families of the earth will be blessed in you."​

No, it is not referring to Genesis 12:3.
"All the families will be blessed IN you" refers to:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:6.

And

and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Gen. 17:13.

Gentiles came into being when God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and commanded circumcision which divided God's people from the rest of the Adamites who were disobedient to God and didn't scatter and "fill the earth." They stayed together under the murderous reign of Nimrod.
When you have a Hebrew man and a Hebrew woman have children their offspring will be Hebrew. Isaac was a Hebrew child. Isaac had a child with another Hebrew woman named Rachel. Leah was also Hebrew. Through these two and the two servant women the children from Jacob were Hebrew and Jacob inherited the Abrahamic Covenant. He wrestled with God Himself and God blessed him and changed his name to Israel. So, now there are twelve sons of Israel.

The "nations" and "kings" that did "come out of thee" (Abraham - Gen. 17:6) were the descendants of Ishmael through Hagar and Esau through his wife. Ishmael was half-Hebrew and half-Egyptian. This doesn't make them Gentiles either. There are terms in Genesis you need to study and understand. Right now, you don't understand it because you're relying on false Constantinian Gentile theology that's out there in books today. Gentiles came from Noah's two sons Ham and Japheth. But the seed of the woman came through Shem. You have a great deal of studying to do.

You may not want Gentiles included, but God does.

That's a lie. If God wanted non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant, He would have said so when He made covenant with Abram the Hebrew, but He didn't there is no mention of Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, New.) What you are doing is adding to the bible. Here is the result when anyone does that:

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

If you can't receive Scripture as written, then there's something wrong with your profession to Christ.
Christ didn't add to the Bible. He didn't change the Bible either. He taught is as written. Receive what I've written because what I've written and provided is in the Bible. Don't call God a liar. It contradicts any profession to God and His Christ.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son 1 Jn 5:9–10.

Scripture cannot be broken.
So, stop trying.

 

[Arial]

Gal 3:16-18 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring.It does not say,"And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

23-29 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law,imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew no Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.



In spite of your refusal to accept it, Galatians was written to Gentile Christians. The above is a covenant. It is the New Covenant made with Jew and Gentile.

@jeremiah1five responded:

I all my study and reading of Scripture I find no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture of God having covenant with Gentiles. None. All that is a Gentile false theology and inheritance theft. If there was a covenant between God and Gentiles, then Gentiles wouldn't have to steal Israel's covenants.

Speaking (writing) to Jews, those under the Law. Genesis to Revelation is all about the Hebrew people.

J indicts himself:

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

 

[Arial]

Galatians 4:4-5 explains everything necessary in understanding the cross at Calvary. It all has to do with the Jewish people, a people for whom Christ died to atone their sins forever. Verse 5 above says it all.

You call that rightly dividing the word? Isolating scripture from everything it pertains to? These are letters! Not isolated sayings! Your interpretation of 4:4-5 cannot possibly mean only Israel is in the New Covenant. Look at what Paul wrote before he wrote chapter 4.








3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by[a] the flesh? 4 Did you suffer[b] so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify[c] the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith​

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”[d] 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit[e] through faith.

The Law and the Promise​

15 To give a human example, brothers:[f] even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Arial]

Obviously, you do not know what I know. The depth of my knowledge and wisdom is equal to my suffering and grief in life. So, if you don't understand the things I say today it doesn't make me wrong.

If someone said to you as a way of asserting that what they say is unquestionably true, "The depth of my knowledge is equal to my suffering and grief in life. So if you don't understand the things I say today, you are not as spiritually advanced as me (implied) ,and I am still right." (When someone says they are not wrong, they are saying they are right.); as you stood on Mt SInai (not Zion) and looked into their heart, what would your conclusion about the person be?

 

[Musicmaster]

The ONLY Christian nation is Israel.

That designation doesn't make any difference whatsoever! What matters is the Church, which is comprised of all true believing Israelites AND Gentiles, all of whom lose the bloodline classification distinctions of this world in Yahshuah! If you don't believe that, then you are a purveyor of doctrines of demons! You may be a really nice guy in person, but what you are saying is not of God if and when it contradicts the inspired writings of Yah!

MM

 

[Mr GLee]

Obviously, you do not know what I know. The depth of my knowledge and wisdom is equal to my suffering and grief in life. So, if you don't understand the things I say today it doesn't make me wrong.
Martin Luther was the only man talking about "justification" and he was opposed by the Catholic hierarchy, but it didn't mean he was wrong. And people didn't understand him on what he shared from the Scripture at the time he said it. It took years for those seeds to be watered and IN TIME

The depth of human knowledge and wisdom is equal to suffering and grief in life.

If a person is suffering for doing right as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) it God's living word that defends them. As apologist It is the armor we are put on and keep on . Other suffering according to a writen testament (CCC) are from daysman or Pope .

Paragraph 80 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are closely linked and communicate with each other. Both come from the same divine source and work together to achieve the same goal, making the mystery of Christ present and fruitful in the een the Athiest fools have a hope according to writen documents..

 

[Musicmaster]

The depth of human knowledge and wisdom is equal to suffering and grief in life.

If a person is suffering for doing right as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) it God's living word that defends them. As apologist It is the armor we are put on and keep on . Other suffering according to a writen testament (CCC) are from daysman or Pope .

Paragraph 80 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are closely linked and communicate with each other. Both come from the same divine source and work together to achieve the same goal, making the mystery of Christ present and fruitful in the een the Athiest fools have a hope according to writen documents..

Don't they now teach that anyone who is what they define as "having good intentions" in seeking what each one thinks is "God" is going to Heaven, even though the historic catechisms and popish declarations state that nobody outside the RCC and its sacramental observances will go to Heaven? Do they now have a slick escape statement from all that condemnation they used to vomit out onto the world?

Torah has never changed in its condemnations, which makes it FAR more stable than all the man-made religions out there.

MM

 

[Arial]

The ONLY Christian nation is Israel.

Israel is not a Christian nation, it is Jewish.

There is no such thing as a Christian nations as it pervades most nations (maybe all, though in some converts to Christianity would be in great peril) and no nation is without a multitude of religions within it.

Which brings us once again close to the topic of the OP. The predominant view in my understanding, of premillennialism is that Satan is bound now and will be released in the "Great Tribulation." In amillennialism (my perspective of it) the Scripture says he is bound from deceiving the nations. Not that he is completely bound---and evidence shows he is not.

So when he is released for a short time, he is released to deceive the nations. WHat might that mean?

If we look at the fact that even nations that consider Christianity the devil himself, and forbid preaching the gospel, even kill those caught doing so, there are still pockets within those nations where the gospel is preached and Bibles distributed. This is done in direct obedience to Jesus' command that it should be preached to all nations, by very, very, brave Christians. Satan is bound from stopping it.

When he is unbound I believe we will see a worldwide persecution of the church by governments. And those days will be cut short for the sake of the elect.