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A problem with premillennialism

Same way as you have watched Him go into heaven. By faith the invisible eternal things of God
Yes, historic narrative. They watched Jesus ascend into heaven. The two angels, direct from God, tells the disciples that Jesus will return the same way. Descend from the clouds, visible for all to see.
John 6:62;63 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

What we see with our eyes profits for zero,nada

God is not a man as us. What can profit is Him pouring out his Spirit Life in jeopardy of his own life on our dying flesh and blood

Sin simply exists. No need to try and divide it as the Catholics (mortal and venial

No such thing as angel a false word .Not coined as angel to well after the completion of the living abiding word.
Wow. Um. Yes there are angels. The meaning of the word is MESSENGER. Messenger of God. Such as Gabriel, the archangel, rushing from the presence of God to give Daniel God's decree of 70 weeks for Daniel's people and holy city. And, Jesus is called Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament.
The translation of the Greek word Angelous is Messenger . How beautiful are there feet shod with the gospel of peace. Christ in us not a legion of angels (a fake word)
No, Jesus is not an angel, Jesus is GOD. Angels are God's messengers to the world. Michael is at the top. Lucifer used to be at the top. Cherubim and Serraphim are angels. They all have their job.
 
The problem with the millenium of Christ and His resurrected saints, is that it does not agree with amillennialism..

Or vica versa.
 
The problem with the millenium of Christ and His resurrected saints, is that it does not agree with amillennialism..

Or vica versa.
Oh, but it does. Nicely at that
 
Isaiah 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts [shall be] upon every [one that is] proud and lofty, and upon every [one that is] lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

Isaiah 13:6, 9
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD [is] at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. ...
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Jeremiah 46:10 For this [is] the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Ezekiel 30:3 For the day [is] near, even the day of the LORD [is] near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD [is] at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2:1, 11, 31
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand; ...
11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp [is] very great: for [he is] strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD [is] great and very terrible; and who can abide it? ...
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Amos 5:18, 20
18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light. ...
20 [Shall] not the day of the LORD [be] darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Obadiah 1:15 For the day of the LORD [is] near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD [is] near, [it is] near, and hasteth greatly, [even] the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

There's no measure of comfort in any of that, which is what was bothering the Thessalonians who were told that the day of the Lord had already begun. Some, for very strange reasons I can't figure out, seem to think that the deliverance of the Church is somewhere in the midst of all that horror, and that there could ever be an inkling for measure of "comfort" to be found in encouragements for passing through that horror only to be delivered at some unknown point in it all...IF they survive one out of every two on the earth dying in that time?

So, either Paul was a lunatic or a liar! How does one justify any of that being something within which can be found "comfort"?

MM

The NT writers originally all thought the end of the world would come right after the destruction of Jerusalem. There are tons of reasons for this, passages about that generation. A normal reading of Rom 2, for ex .

But the world’s end was not then, after all.

At that point the remaining apostles continued as they had before. 2Peter3 , Mk 13, Mt 24 had already allowed a later end.

Yes, some believers would then have very difficult times.

To recycle the Judaic details of Mt 24 and parallels is not the answer, but some general features continue. The 16th century, for ex, was horrendous for Northern Europe. Plague, reformation from a massive corrupt church state, and Islam all impinged on them.

There was an episode of protection in the Jewish revolt disaster itself—the postponement of siege after the city was surrounded. The encircling was one of two signals to people in the city to flee (the other was the use of the temple as a fort). During the postponed siege (due to Roman civil war), thousands of believers fled to Pella in Syria.
Many of them made their way to where Peter and Paul last ministered to preserve the core of church leadership and knowledge.

Some 2nd Gen leaders tried to work out a future set of Judaic events, a recycling. But I don’t think this stands because of their basing it on the Rev while 2P 3 has nothing like it.

The stoning of the harlot of the Rev 18 is the destruction of Israel and that makes way for the wedding. (Somehow this is already past tense in Eph 5). But the married Couple are not yet on earth either, not in the Mill, only in the NHNE.
 
What, amillennialism?
Yes, a few prophecies to look at:
44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be [ap]left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45 Just as you saw that a stone was broken off from the mountain without hands, and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place [aq]in the future; so the dream is certain and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

What kings are those kings? The 10 toes of the statue, that were not iron, but were both iron and clay. A revived Roman Empire. And as Daniel says here, it speaks to the future. What future? When the stone not made by hands crushes and puts an end to ALL of the kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. So if the Kingdom follows Rome (a church father actually bemoaned the fact that we are commanded to pray for those who rule over us, so he found it ironic that they were praying for the extension of those who needed to be removed in order for God's Kingdom to come about...), then it would come some time after 1453 AD.

Notice the end of the statue prophecy:
"35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed to pieces [aj]all at the same time, and they were like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the entire earth.

So this final kingdom that destroys the others, will reach further then all of them because it will fill the entire Earth.

But, back to the prophecy I orignally meant. (That was just background.)
This comes after the fourth beast of Daniel has been defeated. It is the analog of the revived Roman Empire:

The Ancient of Days Reigns​

9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was [h]ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were serving Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court [i]convened,
And the books were opened.
11 Then I kept looking because of the sound of the [j]boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was killed, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning [k]fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.

The Son of Man Presented​

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a son of man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 And to Him was given dominion,
Honor, and [l]a kingdom,
So that all the peoples, nations, and populations of all [m]languages
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

All of this happens AFTER verse 12. I kept looking. In other words, time continued moving forward in his vision and then he saw the Son of Man.

So, again, the original Roman Empire (Eastern part) did not cease in total until 1453 AD. The statue has two legs, there were two parts of the Roman Empire. What is the feet could not come to pass until the original Empire was finished, and then became restored but as iron and clay. It would be different then the Roman Empire. There would be ten kings. This is the final vision of the statue, after which Jesus destroyes them all and His kingdom fills the entire Earth.

So how does it fit the prophecy, if amillennialism states that the kingdom Daniel says doesn't come until after the destruction of the fourth beast started long before the fourth beast even stepped on the field, how does this support amillennialism?
 
Who will be left alive after the 2nd coming?
 
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Who will be left alive? Do you know what the Second Coming is?
It's spoken of in Revelation, 1/4 will be destroyed by God, and I'm sure the wars will kill many more.
 
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It's spoken of in Revelation, 1/4 will be destroyed by God, and I'm sure the wars will kill many more.
Oh, and when is judgment? The third coming?
 
Oh, and when is judgment? The third coming?
Different denominations have different theories. Rev 19:11 speaks of him coming at the close of the Tribulation. Which is after the great wars if I'm not mistaken.
 
Different denominations have different theories. Rev 19:11 speaks of him coming at the close of the Tribulation. Which is after the great wars if I'm not mistaken.
I can't argue that. There are different eschatological beliefs, for sure.
 
Lets say the premill understanding of the millennial age is a biblical one. (I dont believe it is) But let's say for a minute it is.
What would be the consequences of this interpretation of Revelation 20:1-10?

If Premill-ism is true, that means the Jesus returns to judge the world in Revelation 19 and to set up his millennial reign in Revelation 20. But what happens at the end of Christ's Millennial reign over the earth?

According to Rev 20:7-10, Satan is released from the pit and immediately goes out to the four corners to deceive the nations (Those same nations that have already been judged according to Rev 19:15). Satan organizes them for battle against the camp of God's people and the city God loves, that is - Jerusalem. This revolt ends when fire comes fddown from heaven and consumes the rebels along with the devil who deceived them.

But the question remains, Who are these people whom the devil received, who then revolt against God, only to be consumed by fire from heaven?


According to Premills one group of people on earth during the millennial age are the redeemed. No one believes that it is possible for such people who have been raised from the dead in the general resurrection, and who are now glorified, to participate in a revolt like the one depicted in Rev 20.

Therefore those who revolt during the millennium must be individuals who have not been raised from the dead or who have not gone through the judgement when Christ returned to earth when the millennial age began.

Dipsy's believe these are people who came to faith after the rapture and survived the great tribulation and wrath of the antichrist. On the other, Historic premills, believe that these are people living at the time of Jesus' return who were not raised from the dead or judged and who subsequently repopulated the earth during the millennial age.
I'll make a post on this question, maybe tomorrow.
 
From what I have noticed here, all the prophecies of the Bible are not being taken together, but treated in isolation. If God and the disciples did not treat prophecies of Jesus throughout the Old Testament in isolation, but altogether, shouldn't the same be done for eschatology?
 
The NT writers originally all thought the end of the world would come right after the destruction of Jerusalem.
Where does the Scriptural record, or even historical writers confirm this?

There is only one place in Scripture about the temple's destruction, by an offhand prophecy of Jesus. Which was about the temple's destruction, not Jerusalem's. Only after the fact would anyone interpret He meant all of Jersualem.

Also, in Scripture starting with Acts 1, the disciples were looking for Jesus to restore the kingdom to Israel on earth, not the end of the world.

And finally, prophecy mostly deals with the end of the age, not the end of the world. Matthew 24 is only about the end of this age with the Lord's return. 2 Peter is the only prophecy of the end of this world by fire, which is not until the GWT judgment.

Rev 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



To recycle the Judaic details of Mt 24 and parallels is not the answer, but some general features continue. The 16th century, for ex, was horrendous for Northern Europe. Plague, reformation from a massive corrupt church state, and Islam all impinged on them.
True. And is why trying to see the Lord's return and the end of the age or world, ought not be based upon present circumstances.

The recicle of generations is obvious in history. The only thing we know for sure, is when there is a worldwide return to the days of Noah, that the Lord's return is at hand. And yet, every believer of every generation is to watch for Him.

Afterall, we should all be on watch daily, since we don't necessarily know our last day on earth, and our own judgment.

The stoning of the harlot of the Rev 18 is the destruction of Israel and that makes way for the wedding.
Stoning? The harlot is a city. And the only great city surely known in Revelation, is Jersualem when spiritually Sodom and Egypt.

(Somehow this is already past tense in Eph 5).
Present preparation the espoused virgins in Christ has been, is, and continues until the Lord's return, when all saints will be resurrected, and them alive on earth changed, to meet Him in the air and be wed in Person.

The saints are already wed in Spirit as the body to the Head.

But the married Couple are not yet on earth either, not in the Mill, only in the NHNE.
The married Couple in Person will be first in the air, then on earth during His Mill, and finally on the NE. New Jersualem is the city of the Couple. It is adorned as a bride, not the bride.
 
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